Italys Overturns Amanda Knox Murder Aquittal, Orders New Trial

Originally posted by boymonkey74
I just wonder If the girl who had been murdered was American the same people would be sticking up for the accused..

Instead of wondering that, maybe you should wonder if Amanda Knox had not been American, would the corrupt prosecutor ever have gone after her to begin with? The corrupt prosecutor had a history of jacking up innocent people ... and targeting foreigners. And he had NO EVIDENCE at all. And he interrogated Amanda Knox for days ... with no attorney present .. with no interpreter ... and without food or water for long periods of time.

If Amanda Knox had been Italian .. would the prosecutor had bothered trying to frame her by jacking up the court of public opinion with his B.S. ??? Being American HURT her in Italy .. it didn't help.

Originally posted by Flavian
What i want to know is why people think that if the evidence was tainted, why does that not also apply to Rudy Guede?

Not tainted. But just not there at all in regards to Amanda Knox.

Doing Yoga to calm down isn't 'evidence of guilt'. It actually makes sense.
The prosecutor tell the press that 'Foxy Knoxy' was a slut .. that's not evidence either.
And i already posted the info on the severe lack of DNA for Amanda Knox at the crime scene.
And what was supposedly the victims dna on the knife was really just flour.

etc

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by liverlad
Why do you think it is highly unlikley that they have not found any new evidence? Why would they even bother with a retrial if that was the case?

Really? The pressure put on the prosecutors office by the family of the murder victim .. the pressure put on the prosecutors office by the corrupt (former) prosecutor who inflamed anti-Amanda-Knox sentiment across Europe with his outlandish theories and gutter-type inuendos?? You don't see why?

i doubt very much that Italy has a worse justice system than America, .

You need to go back and read the thread.
I posted plenty of data showing how bad the 'justice system' in Italy is.
Only 16% of Italians trust their own justice system. That's really bad!

And 3 out of every 10 people put on death row in the US subsequently turn out to be innocent or there are serious doubts about their convictions (well, at least of the crimes they are accused of!) - from Amnesty International and the ACLU. The point being that every justice system has flaws, which is clearly bad. However, the fact we also know about these issues shows that things are rectified where possible.

This anti Italian thing going on is incredible really. I mean seriously, clear your own house first - what the hell is 3 strikes and you're out about? There was that guy in California that got life on this system and his 3rd strike was for shop lifting! If i was a US citizen, that would make me mad as hell.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by destination now

 

Convicted for a statement she made during a 14 hour brutal interrogation.
More evidence of the recklessness and brutality of the prosecutor.

SERIOUSLY TRUE! Amanda Knox was brutally interrogated without a lawyer .. without an interpreter .. without food or water .... and because the prosecutor claims that Amanda Knox told them to go check out this other fella, she now has to pay that guy for 'ruining his life'. :shk:

The prosecutor should be the one paying any fines and he should take all responsibility since he is the one who caused the situation during the interrogation. And frankly, considering how corrupt the prosecutor is, I don't buy anything that he claims in this regard. Who knows what is true and what isn't .. I don't believe any of his claims about Amanda Knox saying one thing or another. The prosecutor simply can't be trusted.

Originally posted by Flavian
And 3 out of every 10 people put on death row in the US subsequently turn out to be innocent or there are serious doubts about their convictions

I'm against the death penalty but I question that statistic.

Barry Scheck wrote a good book on the death penalty.
'Actual Innocence'. I highly recommend it to folks ....

This anti Italian thing going on is incredible really. I mean seriously, clear your own house first -

I think people are capable of looking at many different problems in the world at the same time and being able to comment on them. We don't have to do it one at a time. We can multi-task just fine.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

You need to go back and read the thread.
I posted plenty of data showing how bad the 'justice system' in Italy is.
Only 16% of Italians trust their own justice system. That's really bad!

Why is it you are so defensive for this woman? Because she is American?

If the Italian government want a retrail, then they must have something new. If they knew they didn't, and the result was going to be the same then they wouldn't bother would they? So the Italian justice system is bad because the Italians don't trust it? Do Americans trust their justice system?

In America, throwing people in prision makes a profit, that doesn't happen in Italy does it? America has 2 million prisoners, more than any country in the world. Some quotes on your legal system:

More than 2 million prisoners – more than 1 out of every 150 people in America – are behind bars in the American gulag. This is now the world’s biggest system of what are effectively concentration camps, though most of these prisoners are behind masonry walls and inside prison buildings. For minorities, the statistics are even more brutal. For example, the USA is now imprisoning about 1 out of every 36 people in its black population. American “justice” is especially focused on jailing young black males

The USA is extremely casual about the jailing of foreigners, and not honouring their rights under international law or treaties and agreements. Often, foreign citizens have been sentenced to death, while the USA didn’t even bother to notify the foreign government that their citizens were arrested

Quite amazingly, Americans and the American government, continually criticize the legal systems and so-called “political” legal proceedings in other countries such as China, Russia, and even Belgium among many other places. Yet, for example, the proportion of prisoners is 30 times higher in the USA than in China, even though China is a country regularly criticized and denounced by the USA government.

Full article here on your corrupt system.
www.globalresearch.ca...

reply to post by Flavian


Do they have a sworn statement from Knox accusing the bar owner?

Doesn't the prosecutor have some responsibility to determine if some statement made during a long brutal interrogation has any validity before pressing charges. Did Knox testify in Court against the bar owner?

If there is no sworn testimony then the prosecutor should have held responsible for the wrongful prosecution.

Is this why Knox was charged for falsely accusing the bar owner?

www.cnn.com...

The text of a note Knox wrote on November 6, while in police custody, is published by CNN and other media outlets. Knox addresses an alleged confession, saying: In regards to this 'confession' that I made last night, I want to make clear that I'm very doubtful of the verity of my statements because they were made under the pressures of stress, shock and extreme exhaustion. Not only was I told I would be arrested and put in jail for 30 years, but I was also hit in the head when I didn't remember a fact correctly.

Since when is telling people what they want to hear, when they smack you upside the head for refusal, a crime?

The people who did this to this young girl are the people who should be in jail.

reply to post by liverlad


I think the US justice system has very serious problems.

Just how does that make what the Italian legal system did to Knox right?

Originally posted by liverlad
Why is it you are so defensive for this woman? Because she is American?

Deflection.

Any discussion about how bad the American system may or may not be has NO RELEVANCE to the Amanda Knox situation. The Italian system is notorious for corruption. The prosecutor himself had a history of jacking up innocent people - especially foreigners. He got convicted of corruption. He fabricated tales about 'Foxy Knoxy' so he could get this case tried by emotional mob rule in the Italian press. There is no dna evidence connecting Amanda to the crime. And she was held in custody for brutal interrogations and not allowed a lawyer or an interpreter or food or water. She was badgered until she ALLEGEDLY told the prosecutor the name of another fella, which turned out to be a dead end (and she got sued for saying the other fella's name even though it was the prosecutor who pretty much forced her to say someone's name.). THAT is why I am defensive for this woman.

reply to post by FlyersFan


No, she went out of her way to point the finger at lumumba..she used to work for him, he fired her because she was unreliable..take from that what you will..though you will obviously come up with another excuse for her!

You no more know about Knox's innocence than anything you have read in your MSM, which was obviously pro-american, yet you will defend her to the hilt, we actually had a fairly unbiased reporting of the case.

And as for your claims about the corrupt prosecutor, that may well be, but as others have pointed out there are plenty of people who have suffered at the hands of corrupt american officials, and your claim that the prosecutor wanted a high profile win,.,Ehh what, Amanda Knox is a nobody, he had nothing to gain by pushing for her guilt as it was only the very same media that you complain about that made her newsworthy in the first place!

I doubt she is the first american to face the Italian judicial system and she won't be the last, but she is the one who grabbed the headlines, mainly due to her own bizarre behaviour, and to now dismiss the cartwheels (which you initially denied happening) as her practising yoga is just pathetic, is snuggling up to your boyfriend on his knee also a yoga move? Bottom line, under the circumstances it was simply inappropriate behaviour and Amanda was not some young, naive person, she was a highly intelligent, well educated young woman and her behaviour was very strange, and no, that does not make her a murderer, but between that and her falsely accusing an innocent man, it is hardly surprising that many people still have many questions about her.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by liverlad
Why is it you are so defensive for this woman? Because she is American?

Deflection.

Any discussion about how bad the American system may or may not be has NO RELEVANCE to the Amanda Knox situation. The Italian system is notorious for corruption. The prosecutor himself had a history of jacking up innocent people - especially foreigners. He got convicted of corruption. He fabricated tales about 'Foxy Knoxy' so he could get this case tried by emotional mob rule in the Italian press. There is no dna evidence connecting Amanda to the crime. And she was held in custody for brutal interrogations and not allowed a lawyer or an interpreter or food or water. She was badgered until she ALLEGEDLY told the prosecutor the name of another fella, which turned out to be a dead end (and she got sued for saying the other fella's name even though it was the prosecutor who pretty much forced her to say someone's name.). THAT is why I am defensive for this woman.

If the prosecutor was corrupt, then that means the whole trial was corrupt, including the verdict. I see nothing wrong with having a retrial to finally get to the bottom of it.

And no, my question wasnt a deflection, i am curious as to why you defend this woman so much without knowing anything about her, apart from what you read on the news.

Contrary to popular belief it was not the media who gave her the name 'Foxy Knoxy'

Amanda Knox gave herself the nickname using it on her 'social net work sites'


Knox had changed her statement many times in her first interrogation and had

falsely accused Patrick Lumumba of being the killer.

Knox's next version of that night was that she was with Sollectio on the night of the

murder smoking weed, watching a movie and making out. Sollectio initially said 'he was

hazy under the influence of smoking weed and there for couldn't recall whether she had

stayed the night or left...throwing Knox's alibi into question and he also is said to have

stated that 'her odd behaviour was unfathomable'.


Following Knox's statements that she was slapped, put under pressure and called a stupid

liar by police during questioning another case for calunia (slander) was opened

against her for falsely implicating the police. According to Italian Penal Code this crime

carries a penalty of two to six years!


Knox was questioned for 50 hours over 4 days, she was officially being interviewed as a

witness, rather than a suspect...this allowed for interrogation without a lawyer or recording

of interviews. Sollectio was also interviewed without a solicitor.

reply to post by eletheia


If you were put in a room, asked questions, and slapped and punched for 14 hours, I bet you would change your story more than a few times.

How would you like someone to treat your daughter, sister, mother, wife, or girlfriend that way?

Got your pitchfork all ready I bet. Burn her at the stake, she is a witch.

reply to post by liverlad


The case should never have gone to trial in the first place.

Dismissed for lack of evidence.

reply to post by poet1b





If you tell the truth your story will never change (always providing you have nothing to hide)

and you will have no need to dig into the 'creative' writing recesses of your mind!!

reply to post by poet1b




# 1...To be in that position I would have to have been in the company of amoral people,

drunk, and stoned. I tend to steer away from that sort of company and situation....It can

only lead to trouble!


# 2...She lied about Patrick Lumumba - and a case for slander was opened against her

for falsely implicating the police. (as in my previous post)


# 3...There only appears to be her word for getting slapped and punched for 14 hours

Surely an assault of this degree and length of time would have left some bruising and/or

redness which would be some proof??


# 4...Funny Sollectio who was also intensively interviewed never made any such claim?

reply to post by eletheia


What nonsense.

It has been long proven that most people are willing to say anything to get out a situation like that.

So now you are saying she is guilty because she was willing to lie to get out of the situation.

Your story keeps changing. Are you lying to us?

reply to post by eletheia


You don't have to be drunk or stoned to get caught in this sort of situation.

So what are you saying now?

She must be guilty because she was the kind of person who gets drunk and stoned and has sex outside of marriage.

Cause all people like that are stone cold killers, right?

Your story keeps changing, so which is it?

She is guilty because the evidence shows she is guilty?

She is guilty because honest people could never be coerced into telling lies?

Or she is guilty because she gets drunk and stoned?

In the murder of Meredith Kercher there is only one victim, and that is Meredith herself. Her murder is a crime that has not been successfully prosecuted and given satisfactory closure. Even if the original trial deliverd the correct verdict, it still left an awful after taste of disatisfaction and doubt.

Criticism of Italian police investigation, Italian forensic analysis, and Italian prosecutorial tactics are very justified, as all three agencies displayed such an incredible amount of incompetence and unprofessional procedure, that the three accused were incapable of receiving a trial that was able to deliver upon them a verdict beyond all reasonable doubt either way. So appalling was the level of incompetence that it added insult to Meredith's murder, and that it still cries out for the 'real' truth to be presented and bring closure to a grieving family. That, and that alone, is what is relevant to this case.

Criticism of news reportage must also be brought to bear upon the media. There is little doubt that the three accused were tried in the public spotlight, especially Amanda Knox, but there is also little doubt that she 'invited' vitriolic presentation of herself in the media through her behaviour and obsfucationary naivete.

With the Italian courts of cassation overturning the acquitals of both Knox and Sollecito, their status (under Italian law) reverts back to the original verdict, and are once again viewed as convicted felons until the verdict of retrial is delivered. It is being reported that the convincing argument from the prosecution that led to the overturning of the acquittals is based on Rudy Guede not having "...an ectoplasm for an accomplice..." The meaning of this statement is not contextually clarified in the reports, and I would not like to speculate upon its meaning.

The nationalities of all involved in this tragic case is actually quite irrelevant, but unfortunately, it has become the main focus of argument for those uninvolved directly in the case as to determining innocence. Truly, it is the most least important factor. Meredith Kercher was brutally murdered by a person or persons, and no amount of judicial incompetence or obsfucation from those accused can hide that fact.

I personally do not know the level of involvement of both Knox and Sollecito in Meredith's murder. A stance I do take is that by their own behaviour and obsfucationary witness statements suspicion fell upon them, they brought it to bear upon themselves, and subsequently police interrogation became more aggressive. They literally contradicted their own albis by trying not to incriminate themself or the other. Such obsfucation will automatically bring suspicion upon you.

You know if you have been involved in a murder or not. If not, you're statement is really quite straight forward, you simply tell the truth. If you were involved, it then becomes a process of juggling facts and untruths in trying to maintain a level of innocence in the minds of your interrogators...its a more complex circumstance, and easily recognised by experienced questioners. Inconsistencies are checked and challenged, and the witness statements of both Knox and Sollecito changed often. Why? If you're not involved you won't wander from the truth of your statement. Knowing your own genuine innocence motivates you not to do so.

I truly hope that the retrial uncovers the truth surrounding Meredith's murder, and finally brings a closure to her family.

reply to post by elysiumfire


Scarred people often act guilty. This well known, especially when leaned on heavily by the authorities, which is why it should be the evidence that decides the case, and in this situation there is no hard evidence against Knox and her boyfriend.

Oh, and excellent post by the way.