Need Help Finding Heaven - Seriously

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I post here because it is a way to express what is known here. And what i post is not an idea.

But what makes you post here?

And, I hate to break it to you, but it is just an idea.

Heaven is in your heart

Heaven is in your eyes

Heaven is your woman's heart

From Heaven your child has come

Heaven is in the tree that you look at but you don't know

that your are looking at a little piece of Heaven

Heaven is to give to others what others does not give to you

Your words are Heaven and Heaven is the word

No worries Heaven is forever yours.

And here is the proof

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
I post here because it is a way to express what is known here. And what i post is not an idea.

But what makes you post here?

And, I hate to break it to you, but it is just an idea.

It is not an idea.
The believed in separate self is suffering because it feels like an alien, it feels lost and afraid and confused and it tries to get something to relieve the pain but it is never satisfying, never enough. It seeks and this seeking is the suffering, it desires 'things' and fears the loss of 'things'. It is the (separate) I that says 'I like/I dislike' that makes life hell.
Only when it is truely seen that there is no one separate from the happening and that the happening is just doing everything will there be a relaxation and that relaxation is into boundlessness.
You will not have to worry if you are doing life right when it is seen that you are not doing any of it.
You are the perfect expression of oneness.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Just because it isn't an idea to you doesn't mean that it isn't just an idea to the rest of us. Also you keep avoiding the question, what drives you to post?

reply to post by daskakik


If what i say is true your mind would not be in charge anymore and that can be fightening. But the mind never was in charge.
What is happening is happening can the mind do anything about it?

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

I post here because it is a way to express what is known here. And what i post is not an idea.

I would certainly agree with you there. It isn't an idea at all. It's pretty much meaningless.

Look, folks. Thanks for the poetry. Thanks for the song. Thanks for the Bible pics. Thanks for the platitudes. Really, they are very very nice. I'm sure y'all derive comfort and solace from them. If that is the extent of your knowledge of "heaven" and Reality, good on ya. I'm sure you will be fine and someday, who knows? You may be vindicated.

But these things are irrelevant to the topic at hand. Indeed, they're clearly off-topic. If you want to persist in that sort of avenue, by all means go to the religious forum. Start your own thread to wax eloquently on whatever it is you are attempting to convey, and enjoy the heartfelt thanks of those who feel as you do.

The idea here is a scientific, rational discussion. I've said this a number of times, yet it keeps happening and is beginning to derail the thread. I don't know if it's because you're not reading the thread and are just jumping into the middle of it, whether you're not understanding the intent here, or whether you are willfully "not understanding" in order to continue your arguments, such as they are.

However, if you keep doing it, I'm going to ask the mods to step in here and begin to remove these off-topic posts. Thanks.

reply to post by schuyler


I thought you wanted to find heaven.
I have posted pointers for you and you are ungrateful.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by daskakik

 

If what i say is true your mind would not be in charge anymore and that can be fightening. But the mind never was in charge.

I don't have a problem with what you say being true. Doesn't mean it is and my experience says that there is more to reality than what you seem to be trying to get across.

What is happening is happening can the mind do anything about it?

Who said anything about the mind being anything other than the mind?

So care to answer what the drive is behind you posting or should I just give up on getting an answer?

reply to post by daskakik


I post here because it is a way to express what is known here.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


So it doesn't just happen, you believe you have knowledge that needs to be shared and you take action to carry that task out.

That is what this thread is about, but schuyler want's to approach it from the scientific side so that instead of ending up with vague phrases and metaphors the results would be unquestionable. I don't think anyone is going to be holding their breath though.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

So it doesn't just happen, you believe you have knowledge that needs to be shared and you take action to carry that task out.

That is what this thread is about, but schuyler want's to approach it from the scientific side so that instead of ending up with vague phrases and metaphors the results would be unquestionable. I don't think anyone is going to be holding their breath though.

Posting happens. There is a passion for sharing what is seen. It is true here so i express it.
Can you tell me exactly what bit of what i have written you disagree with?

Direct experience is the only way one would see heaven or know it.
Science can tell you all sorts of things but seeing is knowing.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Can you tell me exactly what bit of what i have written you disagree with?

You are playing word games:

No one is doing life. Life is just happening.

You are doing something, posting, it happens but it doesn't just happen. You make it happen therefore you are doing.

Direct experience is the only way one would see heaven or know it.
Science can tell you all sorts of things but seeing is knowing.

Depends on what "heaven" really is. Science can lift you into the air so that you may see in a way that would otherwise be unavailable in this material world.

Originally posted by daskakik
reply to post by Itisnowagain
That is what this thread is about, but schuyler want's to approach it from the scientific side so that instead of ending up with vague phrases and metaphors the results would be unquestionable. I don't think anyone is going to be holding their breath though.

No, but you and others have contributed some meaningful ideas to be pondered. Thank you.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Direct experience is the only way one would see heaven or know it.
Science can tell you all sorts of things but seeing is knowing.

I completely and emphatically disagree. This thread is specifically NOT about your approach. It's about the EXACT OPPOSITE. You have stated your opinion that this approach won't work. Thank you for your opinion. I understand your opinion. Now please go away. Your are not adding any value to the discussion. We already know your opinion. Repeating it ad nauseum is not helping.

Is there something about this that don't you understand?

reply to post by schuyler


So you would rather see a mathematical formula for heaven than experience it?
Ok i see.

reply to post by daskakik


The happening is happening.
You think you are doing it and the responsiblity of that is very heavy.
It is just happening.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

That is just the saddest thing I have ever seen.

Tell you what, why don't you go see if it is happening somewhere else? Who knows maybe we'll just happen to be happening there and we could talk about what is happening without us doing anything.

reply to post by daskakik


There is nowhere else. The mind believes there is somewhere else and doesn't realize that this IS IT.
The seeking is the dis-satisfaction, the overlooking of what is here, presently arising. This is being.
Timeless being.
The mind cannot know timeless being because the mind (the I entity) is seeking in time and space for what it believes will complete it.

This is complete. Nowhere to go and nothing to find.
This is it.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

OK I guess that despite all your wisdom you can't take a hint.

Those of us participating in this thread don't really care what you have to say unless you have a mathematical formula for heaven.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by schuyler

 

So you would rather see a mathematical formula for heaven than experience it? Ok i see.

I'm not sure you do, but yes. One. More. Time.

The religions of the world think they see a vision of Heaven, of Reality. They look through the window with their vision impaired and they come back with stories. They say that Jesus died for our sins and that the ONLY way to Heaven is through accepting Him as your personal Lord & Savior. Or they say that Mohammed ascended to heaven WITH HIS HORSE from the temple mount. Or they say that human sacrifice is necessary to appease the gods. They'll say the Earth was made by God in 4004 BC on October 23rd at 9:00 in the morning. Or they'll say that it is necessary to burn witches at the stake. And adherents of these religions will fight for their beliefs, so much so that they are responsible for killing, murdering millions and millions of people.

Now science has been around a long time. The Greeks, the Persians, the Egyptians, etc. all had a concept of science, but it was not until the Renaissance that science finally began to break through the tyranny of the Church and reject such notions that the Earth was 6,000 years old or even that Jesus existed at all. Science rejected ALL religious truths in favior of the scientific method which used verfiable, repeatable observation to come up with Reality. And science has made remarkable strides in terms of figuring out Reality. Indeed, it's gotten a bit strange with quarks and strings and branes and all manner of scientific achievement. But science itself can get out of hand as atheists refuse to see any worth in the individual, so science in the guise of weapons systems, nazis, and totalitarian regimes has been responsible for killing, murdering millions and millions of people.

Not a very good record for religion. Not a very good record for science. Religion does not reject science entirely, but science does reject religion entirely. Yet we continue to have accounts from able-bodied people that there IS a "Heaven," and "Other Side," a "place" that appears to harbor "souls of the dead." PLEASE READ MY OPENING POST! ALL these accounts are personal, anecdotal, subjective, often contradictory, but still with a certain sameness that would suggest there is something to these accounts.

By and large, with a few notable exceptions, science rejects these accounts and will even go to twisted gyrations to explain them as the result of brain emitted chemicals. This is because science rejects the notion of Heaven intrinsically. It can't possibly exist. And as physicists like Brian Greene say, "They see no evidence" despite working from the Planck Length to Universe-sized chunks.

NOW, I happen to believe that "Heaven" or "The Other Side" DOES exist because I believe many of these anecdotal accounts. I believe the children. I DO NOT believe the Christians who come back from an NDE and say, "I saw Jesus" or "I saw hell" because I believe their experiences were influenced by their pre-existing beliefs.

So on the one hand we have a growing number of atheists who believe the whole religious stuff is crapola combined with a growing number of fundamentalists who will believe anything they're told.

This is not a good thing.

My belief is that if we are to advance at all, the next big breakthrough is essentially to "find Heaven." If we can find and be able to communicate between these two realms, whatever is "the Other Side" and what we know of as Reality, then the changes to our species would be profound. We would understand much more clearly what comes next. We would understand that all our in-fighting is for naught. We would understand that there's more to consciousness than just the flesh. And just maybe we could answer some pretty compelling questions about aliens, UFOs, and inter-dimensional travel.

If we don't do that, then we're going to slip down back into the mud. I personally do not want to see that happen. I hope we are not compelled to do that by the nature of reality. I hope we have control of our destiny. And to do all that we need science to find Heaven, complete with equations.

And THAT'S why running to the beach to gaze at the skies and "experience Heaven" does not cut it. It's not good enough. If that's what satisfies you, fine. Obviously, you will not be part of the solution here.

At least allow the rest of us to explore it without your poetry and expressing your "feelings." Those are not the point of this thread. Please express them elsewhere.

Please don't make me explain this again.