Educated opinions not welcome

Originally posted by Grambler
Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.


Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

No, I think most are here for that reason.

As for responses, well, that's not too complicated. I actually just read several of yours on another thread, and didn't comment, because, well, you made great points, and nothing was needed. A star, but no argument. The posts that get more comments are usually because someone disagrees with them. If you happen to attract someone that wants to argue, you will see more, but when you are right, and in a thread where most agree with you, you will see stars, but not so many replies. Plus, even in a disagreement, when you post well thought out, succinct responses, the opposition tends to back off. Take it as a compliment.

reply to post by Grambler

HOT DAMN! A MODERATE! I am also a Moderate and I am a Registered Independent from Mass. I don't care what political party is from as a Good Idea is a Good Idea! I vote for who ever I think can do the job. Seems like you said...one party or the other...instead of FIXING what is broke...will become so entrenched within one Flash Point issue or another...that nothing important gets done!

The worse part is...they will not even acknowledge when someone from the other party actually has a Viable Plan of Action! Both sides are guilty of this and I am sick and tired of one or the other party vilifying each other to the point that they believe that SATAN HIMSELF is on the other side of the aisle.

I long for Common Sense. Where is Thomas Paine when you need him? LOL! Split Infinity

Originally posted by Xaphan
Views and opinions are harmless, so long as they are subject to change when necessary.

Agreed.

One of my main concerns is too often I don't know if the posters are serious or not. And, too often I hope that they aren't serious.

One day I fully expect to read: Hi guys! During my last out of body experience I floated over a vampire talking on a cell phone when a zombie started eating him while a green reptilian ghost stood by laughing at them. Is this a false flag event or what!

reply to post by jiggerj

Yes...there is a lot of that out there. The thing is to find the people who have had a real experience and those who are seeking attention. Split Infinity

I joined ATS after many years of lurking around (yes, yes we've all heard this story a million times before) when someone asked for serious help but no one could answer. So I gave her an answer and elaborated upon it in follow-ups. Since then, I've been asking questions or pushing the boundaries a little just to see what people believe in and hopefully get a better understanding how the world works and what I may be able to do about it. I seek the truth, and beyond this truth I seek to help as many people as I can. I am no prophet or a saint, I'm full of flaws with a heart of gold. I don't like when people get hurt so why are people getting hurt so much? That is why I am here, to learn more about the truth.

I may never be able to change anything directly, but at the very least, I could participate by helping fellow brothers and sisters to stimulate their minds, push their comfort zone, and try to stimulate new ideas for a better ( x ). Where X can be anything like community or world or something

This guy has said exactly what I've been thinking lately. Well said, S&F - let the intellects overwhelm the masses on ATS. I always hope that people reading topics here , members, non-members, visitors, can see the distinct difference between a post that has been researched, investigated, backed by an educated reply, and less-thought-out , less educated, researched posts. The differences are usually pretty obvious to all.

reply to post by Grambler



It's sadly the way that ATS and conversation in general has gone.
Popularity has caused the spike in idiots and trolls on ATS, it's sad but yes, very hard to get a decent level of discussion/debate going really.

Like you say, people either ignore you or just quote you out of context or just cherry pick parts of your argument to discuss.

It's ridiculous.

There are also educated people reading this site, believe it or not. (This reply you are reading is actually is written by a 30+ years old person who has academic degree in computer sciences and works with *NIX - based systems).

What you should take a mindset of is that ATS is not about academic debate or well-educated discussion. ATS is mainly about entertainment - with the benefit of that every now and then it may give you some food for thought.

In my mind I compare ATS to a flea market: among piles of junk you occasionally find something interesting or which may have potential value. But as in flea market, also in ATS, you are not fully sure should you buy it or not.

Originally posted by Grambler
The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

By now you probably know that you're not alone in that.

It's also been my observation that often times when the proposed truth about something isn't so exciting, it tends to get less interest. As others have said, this is an entertainment site for many. Not for me.

Though many threads pass through here with little facts and lots of speculation, ATS remains my primary source of news and opinions relating to current events around the world. I don't create threads often and I am very grateful to the many members here that make valuable contributions such as yours. Thanks.

It's tough to watch agenda pushers do what they do here for me too, but I can't blame others for being invested in whatever it is that they are - Everyone feels the need to take a side, choose a stance, pick a team...

Am I here for knowledge, truth, and answers? Sure... However the more I learn, the more I realize how little I really know. I look for the questions that remain unanswered more than anything else.

I completely agree with the OP, there has been many times I have seen the most stupid, badly thought out, irrational posts get a ridiculous amount of stars and the most intelligent, deep, critical-thinking posts get maybe one or two.
But hey, thats the internet.

reply to post by Grambler


The only truth people must realise is the power that is held within each and everyone of us.

We are immortal beings of light and love.

Compassion and forgiveness are quality's we must start to show, this is our true nature.

I love you all.

Peace

K

reply to post by Grambler


I'm for finding the truth.

We need to consider other views in order to find it. Many seem to close their minds or ridicule others before entertaining the possibility that they don't know it all. I, for one, know I don't know it all, but I've got a brain and want to use it to benefit all and not just some.

Really? Well, I'd like to see an example of it. If you are speaking of politics it is generally non-right wing positions that are not welcome. I don't think your content is really the problem though. You will notice most people who get a large amount of stars also network in the site and use the "Friend" list and such. It's cliques we are really talking about. Watch the threads and you'll see your prime suspects really quickly. I have just started mentally ignoring people. It's annoying,but it's what it is and it's hard to avoid on a public forum.

I think the other problem is people can't even agree on the facts anymore. If it doesn't suit their political agenda it just can't be true.

My main concerns, related to your OP, stem from people that genuinely think their beliefs are "evidence".

I had a conversation with someone, yesterday, wherein the person I was talking to claimed something as a fact, emphatically, because it was "just so obvious".

Because their "fact" represented a popular, and so far baseless, conspiracy, my attempt to question why he believed his opinion as "fact" was met with a torrent of people accusing me of being an idiot, for believing "everything" the "MSM" told me.

How any "truth" can be found in that environment is beyond me.

I've also had people tell me directly that they perpetuate debunked theories, as a way to explore interesting concepts... good luck to the casual reader though, who can't determine if someone is posting lies for fun, or because they don't know they're lies, or because they are, to the uninformed, not lies, but truth.

Add to that the selective "[hoax]-ing" of some known hoaxes, while others are perpetuated endlessly, because Mods can't be bothered to make hard decisions; the endless lies and hoaxes coming out of blogs and other conspiracy sites; and if I'm frank, the declining ability of the masses to critically think and determine fact from fiction; add all of these things together, and well... we're lucky there's anything true on ATS or any similar site.

Meh.

reply to post by Grambler


You are absolutely correct.

I recently created a post that directly violated the Terms and Conditions on ATS.com, not on purpose though. (posting donation links)

They even sent me a message telling me I couldn't. But, did they delete my topic, no.

They didn't delete it only because they assumed I would back down and let others post what they wanted.

As other users started to change the subject and write completely false items and create flame wars (them, not me), I defended myself perfectly.

After completely proving myself and fending off losers, then did the moderators delete my topic.

I have copies of the messages and the times they were sent to me.

If they can control and embarrass you, you can post whatever you like. But, if you defend yourself, you're subject to discrimination.

reply to post by Grambler


No, I am totally on top of this as well. Lately I have been on a campaign to improve the quality of ATS by promoting free thinking, empirical research, citing sources, engaging in civil discourse and especially accepting when you are wrong about something. I am also trying to promote speculation, as this can result in interesting, fresh threads and there isn't anything wrong with that - as long as people are there to fact check and stuff.

What else... oh politics. I have recently started tuning out the radical left and radical right because they have both just gone off the deep end and I can't relate to what either side is thinking. This puts me in the center, I think. Maybe if the right and left continue to radicalize a lot more people will cease to understand them and end up in the center, too.

reply to post by darkbake


History is littered with dead and abandoned radicals.

Originally posted by milominderbinder
On a completely unrelated note...HOLY SH^T!! If that is your real pic you are just about the largest hominid I have ever encountered. LOL.

Christ...I hope you'd be on my side in the barfight. LOL.

No lol that isn't me. It's a mugshot I found somewhere on the internet. I think on thesmokinggun.com

He looks like the love child of Simon Cowell and Shrek.

Originally posted by Grambler
Let me start by telling you why Im here. To Learn the truth of things, and to give my opinion on what the truth is so that I can get feedback, so I can adjust my beliefs to what is correct to the best of my ability.

In my pursuit of this I often find myself a moderate on this site. Im not repub or democrat, I dislike the government but question the logic that everyone involved is evil, etc.


Yet what Ive come to notice on this site is that the more well thought out and succinct point you make, the more likely it will be ignored. However, if you make a politically charged opinion with no facts behind it, you will get massive responses in favor of and against your comments.

I kmow it sounds paranoid, but I often feel as if people ignore my points on this site because they have no answer to them.

The point I have in this thread is this, Am I the only one who is here because I care about gettin to the truth? Im so frustrated that I would just like to here someone else say they are here because they seek knowledge and not just to push their agenda.

Based on our short discussion and the post you had made on another string I have to say part of the reason why you were not being acknowledge is because you were posting questions and thoughts that had already been presented. Most people don't feel the need to try and post an answer twice when most of the time the answer is usually ignored or rejected outright. By your own admission you hadn't read the material pertinent to the topic even after many links of reference were posted. Maybe these post were not directed to you personally but it is my opinion that you would have found what you were looking for anyway. In the end you got what you wanted and then preceded to explain why you still held the opinion that you did. Are you just here to learn or just to express your opinion? I am here for both.

I'm of the mindset that ATS is both entertainment and a tool to learn some confusing if not totally elusive truths. Take it all with a grain of salt, but keep your rational senses and try to enjoy yourself. As member Erongaricuaro pointed out - there is a lot going on below the surface of ATS. Forums exist where intelligent, fun people hang out to discuss real issues in depth. Happy hunting!