Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

Originally posted by grandmatruthseeker

As for the semantics, * marriage vs. union,* what difference does it make what word is used to describe it?

It seems to matter to some gay people very much. In the UK they have the same legal rights, via civil unions, as hetrosexuals.

Yet they demand that the historical and legal meaning of 'marriage' be changed to encompass same sex unions.

They have no right to redefine marriage for the rest of us.

reply to post by ollncasino

They have no right to redefine marriage for the rest of us.

I wonder if gay people feel the same way...

Also, can you explain to me (and the tone is not meant to be nasty I am genuinely interested) what bothers you about gay people calling it marriage? I think the argue over what to call it is silly from both sides.

Originally posted by Domo1
Also, can you explain to me (and the tone is not meant to be nasty I am genuinely interested) what bothers you about gay people calling it marriage?

Historically, legally and religiously marriage has meant a legal union between a women and a man. Not two men.

Can you explain to me why the historical, legal and religious meanings of the word 'marriage' should be changed to include same sex unions?

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Really where does it end? How about we get back to the simple golden rule. Civility works every single time.

The golden rule is a Christian scripture. Christians go to war and kill people all the time. Christians want to take away people's right to marry the one they love. The golden rule isn't working. We need to try something else.

reply to post by kaylaluv


The golden rule is treat other people the way you want to be treated. It is not from scripture.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by grandmatruthseeker
I almost *wish* I could beat the compulsion to reply to everyone's posts on this issue. ( but I cannot) It is has been a confusing issue for me because of my upbringing. I was not exposed to sexual information until I was in my late teens. I was even slower learning about alternative sexual orientations to heterosexuality.
I am in my late 50's now. I now have the knowledge and I have friends that are in gay relationships or unions.
We should show each other respect and kindness. Why does anyone have to know our sexual orientation?
As for the semantics, * marriage vs. union,* what difference does it make what word is used to describe it?
I was under the impression that the rights being the same for either union were what was most desired . Am I wrong?
Have a good one.

You can't keep your orientation a secret forever, unless you are forced to under threat of discrimination. Let's say you invite your gay friends over to a party, and they bring their significant other. It would be pretty obvious that they are a couple, right? In our daily conversations, and in social situations, we reveal our sexual orientation all the time. This is what has caused all the problem -- gays refusing to hide who they are, like they did in the 1800's, and early to mid-1900's. Some people would rather gays go back into the closet, and pretend they are "straight", i.e., bring a girl to a social event, or come alone when they have a partner they would like to bring. Or, not marry the one they love, because the one they love is of the same gender. This is why they are in everyone's faces right now. When we give gays all the same rights and respect that others have, they will go back to their normal lives.

Gays want the same as everyone else. If everyone else gets a marriage license, they want a marriage license. How about gays get to use the word "marriage", and you now have to change what you have to a "union". Does that bother you at all?

I have yet to hear of one conception from a pair of Gay Men !! semen and excrement produce nothing of value to our race ( The Human One ) and Women on Women usually appears to be less likely to produce "life" without a Male Donor - that most man hating Lesbians detest.

So in summary, if Homosexuality cannot bring life onto this world it is not of the Creation but that of the Anti-Creation. As we are in his image are we not ? and I'm not religious but can see that the downfall of Humanity is the degradation of its behavior and tolerance to things we should not accept.

Next on the Agenda will be the subtle hints toward the easing of laws against bestiality, I mean its just a small step from Homosexuality isn't it ?

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

The golden rule is treat other people the way you want to be treated. It is not from scripture.

en.wikipedia.org...

I thought the golden rule was something Jesus talked about in the Bible. My point is still the same. Why is no one following the golden rule? It starts when you are children. Why are parents not teaching this to their children? Why are children growing up not following it?

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Domo1
Also, can you explain to me (and the tone is not meant to be nasty I am genuinely interested) what bothers you about gay people calling it marriage?

Historically, legally and religiously marriage has meant a legal union between a women and a man. Not two men.

Can you explain to me why the historical, legal and religious meanings of the word 'marriage' should be changed to include same sex unions?

I got news for you dude. The definition has already been changed. Gay marriage is alive and well in 7 states in the U.S. (so far), and in several countries. So, it's a done deal.

Historically, blacks have been slaves -- but we changed centuries of history. All for the good.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Does it bother me what anyone calls their relationship? Not at all, kaylaluv. I was asking it more as a rhetorical question. I hope those who feel distress over the topic can resolve that distress in my lifetime.
Why is our private life and sexual preference , or lack of, anyone's business as long as we are not hurting anyone and it is consensual? I am not arguing a point with anyone. I can read and respect and consider every individual thought offered here. I am asking questions in order to become enlightened. Any post I make I hope to make without disrespect to anyone.
Have a good one.

Originally posted by mazzroth
I have yet to hear of one conception from a pair of Gay Men !! semen and excrement produce nothing of value to our race ( The Human One ) and Women on Women usually appears to be less likely to produce "life" without a Male Donor - that most man hating Lesbians detest.

So in summary, if Homosexuality cannot bring life onto this world it is not of the Creation but that of the Anti-Creation. As we are in his image are we not ? and I'm not religious but can see that the downfall of Humanity is the degradation of its behavior and tolerance to things we should not accept.

Next on the Agenda will be the subtle hints toward the easing of laws against bestiality, I mean its just a small step from Homosexuality isn't it ?

And I have yet to hear of one conception from an impotent heterosexual man! You think that man can't produce something of value to our race? What if that man was Albert Einstein, or Jonas Salk?

The downfall of humanity is greed for power, not who we are attracted to.

Let's keep this debate to consenting adults, shall we? After all, sheep can't sign marriage licenses.

reply to post by mazzroth


Mazzroth, with all due respect, in your opinion who should determine *things we should not accept*?
I was raised by the Bible. I learned a few things from my family in regards to what is socially acceptable behavior and manners and the like. I have not been a churchgoer as an adult, but the lessons learned as a child have stuck with me for a long time. BUT, in all fairness, not all people are raised the way I was. I must be logical and realize that it would never be my place to choose for others.
This topic has been a tough one to figure out for me. But, I still believe that we must try to be good to each other. As long as adults are engaging in consensual behavior is it not their right? I agree with the OP that the Five Reasons Why Gay Marriage is a Basic Value are good reasons for ANY type of marriage.
Have a good one.

reply to post by kaylaluv


Educated, civilized people do follow the golden rule. Lead by example, not by teaching the very behavior you abhor. We do not have to all agree in order to treat each other with respect and civility. Forcing your views onto others is a recipe for disaster.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

Educated, civilized people do follow the golden rule. Lead by example, not by teaching the very behavior you abhor. We do not have to all agree in order to treat each other with respect and civility. Forcing your views onto others is a recipe for disaster.

You just said it -- educated. How does one become educated? You have to be taught. How do we teach people to follow the golden rule? Lead by example is good, but apparently it's not enough. All of our great religious leaders did more than lead by example -- they also used the spoken and written word to teach us how to live our lives. So, we teach children that gays are not so different from anyone else. They contribute to society, they have goals, talents, intelligence, valuable skills. If they are not so different from everyone else, shouldn't we treat them like everyone else? I know you understand this, I am saying this is what teachers could be teaching children. You don't have to teach that homosexuality is good or bad, just that the people in that group should be respected and treated as equals. The golden rule.

By the way, there are a lot of "educated, civilized" people who don't follow the golden rule. Do you think every educated political leader has followed the golden rule?

reply to post by kaylaluv



I follow it and have taught my children to follow it without the interference of their teachers. I believe teachers should reinforce the idea of respect and civility, but schools cannot adopt a PC agenda without trampling on someones rights.

Respect and civility always work, every single time.

Again rather than emphasizing negative behavior we need to reward civility. It is a simple concept and it works. Teach the golden rule. Every single kindergartner can understand it.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I follow it and have taught my children to follow it without the interference of their teachers. I believe teachers should reinforce the idea of respect and civility, but schools cannot adopt a PC agenda without trampling on someones rights.

Respect and civility always work, every single time.

Again rather than emphasizing negative behavior we need to reward civility. It is a simple concept and it works. Teach the golden rule. Every single kindergartner can understand it.

Great - I'm glad your children will never tease, taunt or bully anyone. I have taught my child as well, and I have explained to her that all people have value and deserve our respect. And I know that Kindergarten teachers tell kids all the time to be nice to each other. But, why do we have so much gay bullying going on in schools? Why so much hate speech on social networks? Have you seen the you-tube videos of kids beating up other kids? How about the movie recently released, called "Bully"?

Apparently, there are a lot of "uneducated, uncivilized" parents out there that aren't doing their job very well. Do we just allow it to happen in our society because we are afraid of being "PC"? Apparently the good kids, like yours and mine, haven't been successful at leading by example. And apparently, teachers telling kids to be nice isn't working either. What do you suggest we do with other people's children? Please don't say we should let them keep doing what they're doing.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

I follow it and have taught my children to follow it without the interference of their teachers. I believe teachers should reinforce the idea of respect and civility, but schools cannot adopt a PC agenda without trampling on someones rights.

Respect and civility always work, every single time.

Again rather than emphasizing negative behavior we need to reward civility. It is a simple concept and it works. Teach the golden rule. Every single kindergartner can understand it.

Funny how some self proclaimed libertarians miss the point that government should get out of the marriage business all together. If government did it would work toward mending a very divided nation and world as a whole concerning this most controversial and divisive issue of our time. That's a plan to prosper civility in regards to this most unsettling civil issue that only serves to foster tensions within society, a society divided in two of very different views of morality.

reply to post by mazzroth


According to your logic, hand-jobs and giving head fall into the same category as bestiality.

Rethink your line of attack unless you honestly believe that all non-procreative forms of sexual behavior are analogous to the degradation of the will of god.

Do reply.

reply to post by kissy princess


lmao. Hand jobs and whatnot are often used in foreplay because they're process in sex, not WHO you're having sex with. So I doubt that this argument is going to get anywhere with said person.

Originally posted by kissy princess
reply to post by mazzroth

 

According to your logic, hand-jobs and giving head fall into the same category as bestiality.

Rethink your line of attack unless you honestly believe that all non-procreative forms of sexual behavior are analogous to the degradation of the will of god.

Do reply.

edit on 22-5-2012 by kissy princess because: just cuz

Are hand jobs even relevant to the discussion here ? I could use your line of debate and say that with your dual usage of slang sexual acts that you must be promiscuous. Simply put, I associate Homosexual behavior along side deviant behavior because of 2 reasons.

Firstly I worked with a closet Gay man who admitted to me his sexuality in confidence, he didn't have the kind of desires normally associated with a healthy mind...I won't go into it but it was perverted and he admitted as much.

Secondly I have an Uncle who is an Outed Gay Man and his lies and deceit over decades covered the fact he liked little boys more than grown men. Tell me if you think this is ok as well ? I certainly don't think a Gay Person desiring Children is anything close to decent and what I would consider healthy.

You can accept anything the Corpratocracy tells you to, under what ever guise - political correctness or otherwise but my personal experience with this tells me that nothing good comes from it. The guy I worked with is now taking heroin and giving sexual favours in public toilet blocks and my uncle has a boy toy who he refers to as his ride and is a huge embarrassment to anyone who is in contact with him.

Once again..no lovely bouncing baby boy or everlasting love in that lot.