Christian doctrines vs scripture

reply to post by NOTurTypical

People do still try and go back under the law, but it's at their own peril.

Apparently you accept all the tenets of you cult's ideology without understanding how they were arrived at by the founder, Darby. You are not aware of anything that happens on earth after your supposed rapture.

reply to post by Iason321

Who is the light-bearer?

John 1:9
The true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world.

Good for you, you can now stand among the Pharisees in saying Jesus does miracles by the power of Satan.

reply to post by jmdewey60


JMDewey, I don't understand you.

You reject so many core beliefs of Christians, then you criticize fellow Christians for our "cult like" behavior?

You claim to be a follower of Christ, but I see you giving in to Lucifer.

The True Light of the World is Jesus the Christ.

The lightbearer of the world is the satan.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

. . . those condemned by their words are those who stand before the judgment seat not having been found in the Lambs book of Life. Those that belong to Christ are to come boldly before the throne of grace.

Hebrews 4:6
Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help.

That is not the judgment at the end of your life, but where you come to get what you need to live properly.

The Lambs book of Life is something from Revelation which is not a theological treatise. The Gospel, where you got the original verse from, is a condemnation of Judaism as it existed in the temple cult at Jerusalem.

Righteousness was imputed unto Abraham because He believed God,

The lesson Paul was trying to give by saying this was that there is a law of faith which Abraham lived by where he could be considered righteous, before there ever was a Law of Moses, and we can live by that same system as Abraham did, now.

. . . is where from the righteousness is imparted . . .

Is there somewhere in the Bible that explains this concept of "imparted righteousness"?

reply to post by Iason321

You claim to be a follower of Christ, but I see you giving in to Lucifer.

You follow a Medieval mythology, which real biblical scholars dismiss.
The reason you don't realize that you are a cult is, I have to imagine, that you do not read mainstream Christian books.
Now I am not talking about your cult's books that on the covers claim to be the "new mainstream".

btw: why does Jesus in Revelation call himself the bright morning star?
Answer: that myth was not made up yet when Revelation was written.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

Read that again...slowly

12 “Therefore, son of man, say to your people, ‘If someone who is righteous disobeys, that person’s former righteousness will count for nothing. And if someone who is wicked repents, that person’s former wickedness will not bring condemnation. The righteous person who sins will not be allowed to live even though they were formerly righteous.’ 13 If I tell a righteous person that they will surely live, but then they trust in their righteousness and do evil, none of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered; they will die for the evil they have done.

I got it. And we have all sinned which means that our righteousness is no good anymore for salvation. We must repent. And in what name is repentance, the only name not tainted by sin, the only name whereby we are saved? Only in Jesus.

Woe unto the sinner that thinketh his righteousness is good enough apart from the very grace of our Father in Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

 

. . . those condemned by their words are those who stand before the judgment seat not having been found in the Lambs book of Life. Those that belong to Christ are to come boldly before the throne of grace.

Hebrews 4:6
Therefore let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace whenever we need help.

That is not the judgment at the end of your life, but where you come to get what you need to live properly.

You're right, the throne of grace is not judgment for those of us in Christ shall not see judgment. Doctrine is established for right living. Christ sacrifice is established for our salvation. This is Christianity.

The Lambs book of Life is something from Revelation which is not a theological treatise. The Gospel, where you got the original verse from, is a condemnation of Judaism as it existed in the temple cult at Jerusalem.

Yes and the rebuilding of the temple in 3 days is Christ telling them all that in 3 days He would rise from the grave.

Righteousness was imputed unto Abraham because He believed God,

The lesson Paul was trying to give by saying this was that there is a law of faith which Abraham lived by where he could be considered righteous, before there ever was a Law of Moses, and we can live by that same system as Abraham did, now.

Not the law of Faith, the law of Grace through Faith. These are not the days of Noah when all men lived according to what was right in their own eyes, nor is this the day wherein we live unto righteousness by the shedding of blood for remission of sin. We have a new promise by Jesus and to deny God's love in such a Divine reality as exists in God's gift to us by Christ is to deny the Love of God itself. Had we known God we would have known Christ and our Father's love in that He gave us his only begotten to be sin for us.

. . . is where from the righteousness is imparted . . .

Is there somewhere in the Bible that explains this concept of "imparted righteousness"?

edit on 3-4-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

James chapter 2 explains how faith without works is dead, that our faith is justified by our works like a tree is justified of the fruit it bears, and that Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

My reply to all who are hating me, Nut, the other Christians on here: read this verse, and let it sink into your head.

Matthew 10:20-22 "For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."

Amen.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

 

As for the sacrifice of the ram, that's another OT bit that's wrongly interpreted as being a parallel to Jesus sacrifice. If you are going to go by parallels between this and that, then you better go all the way. Don't just stop at superficial similarities present in the accounts you see parallels between.

Sure, God provided a ram... but that was to save a human being, the son of Abraham, who God loved.
Yet.... you believe it parallels Jesus, the most perfect of humans, was sacrificed for sinners?

If Abrahams sacrifice indeed foreshadowed Jesus sacrifice... then Jesus, like the innocent son, should have been substituted by another "ram in the thicket". Instead your bizarre perception of the ram story reverses the players...

Maybe the father instead of the son?
The ram instead of the lamb?


Something to think about...

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

People do still try and go back under the law, but it's at their own peril.

Apparently you accept all the tenets of you cult's ideology without understanding how they were arrived at by the founder, Darby. You are not aware of anything that happens on earth after your supposed rapture.

Lots of stuff happens on Earth after the harpazo. Don't have a clue what you're talking about, sorry. And my cult leader is Jesus.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Lots of stuff happens on Earth after the harpazo. Don't have a clue what you're talking about, sorry. And my cult leader is Jesus.

OK, then describe one or two.
Do the people who are raptured (according to your philosophy) ever come back?

Why do you embed Chuck Missler videos into your posts?
Why do you have a link to a Mark Driscoll video in your signature?

reply to post by jmdewey60

Why do you embed Chuck Missler videos into your posts?
Why do you have a link to a Mark Driscoll video in your signature?

Thats because the Chuck Misslers of this world are shaping "christian" thought.
Its not about the bibles words anymore.... its about what people like Chuck interpret about the bible.

reply to post by Iason321

My reply to all who are hating me, Nut, the other Christians on here: read this verse, and let it sink into your head.

When did disagreeing with christians amount to hating christians??

Speaking for myself, I dont hate anybody. I just present my P.O.V on internet forums like anybody else.

Enough is enough...

This great site of ours has been built on the cornerstone of civility and decorum. As members, we are free to discuss any issue as long as it within the parameters of the Terms and Conditions you agreed to when registering with this site.

On that note, please confine your remarks to the issue at hand and refrain from attacking one another. Adherence to this simple request is expected. No exceptions.

ALL MEMBERS: We expect civility and decorum within all topics.

Consider this fair warning.

I really hate this forum. I don't know why it's even here on ATS.
It's full of ... "I'm right .. you are wrong ...No I'm right .. you are wrong ..."

Easily DISPROVEN anti-______ (fill in the blank with religion of choice) rhetoric which the perp just posts again anyways even after having been proven wrong.

Truth isn't hate speech .. but I've yet to see much 'truth' posted in this forum. It's full of posts from people who think their version of faith (usually gleened from prejudiced sources) is the right one and everyone else is an idiot (or going to hell) who doesn't believe the way they believe.

The SUBJECT of Christian Doctrines vs Scripture ... doctrines naturally developed from scripture. It's been 2,000 freak'n years since scripture was written. LOTS MORE if you count the Old Testament. People are going to naturally develop doctrines based on their base book and upon those traditions handed down. That base book (the bible) even says they will "hold on to the traditions we've passed down".

So what the heck are you people fighting about? It makes no freak'n sense. :shk:

I made this thread to discuss the distinction between "christian doctrine" and "scripure".... and of course, the christian method of interpreting scripture, so as to arrive at their conclusions. I gave examples and case studies and elaborated on as to why "doctrine" and "scripture" are worlds apart....refer to the OP again.

Its not like I just threw in a youtube video and gave a 2 line synopsis.
The thing is, I have been over the bible, I even went through a phase during my younger years where I believed the same doctrines as the christians participating in this thread... today, I know for a fact that what gets passed off as "christian doctrine" has zero connection to the scripture it claims to be associated with. All that it took was a basic understanding of english and a willingness to unlearn and re-read the bible.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

The thing is, I have been over the bible, I even went through a phase during my younger years where I believed the same doctrines as the christians participating in this thread... today, I know for a fact that what gets passed off as "christian doctrine" has zero connection to the scripture it claims to be associated with. All that it took was a basic understanding of english and a willingness to unlearn and re-read the bible.

You are not alone in having explored that path. There are several among us...

I am interested very much in your thoughts, skorpion, and would like to hear more about your thoughts on Hinduism...
I do not embrace any organized sect of religion, neither Islam (although they have some respectable historical theses and evidence), nor any of the Christian, nor Jewish sects.

I, too, had to unlearn my indoctrination, and the most interesting people on this forum (which fascinates me) have come to a similar place of inquiry and understanding of all this stuff.

It is now my opinion that there really cannot be "one correct religion", because people's temperaments -- specifically whether they are optimists who look at life as a pleasant and routinely surprising journey, with no need of 'fear' to get them to do so; vs morbid pessimism and a feeling of overwhelming failure -- are not addressed sufficiently by any single one of them.

I am now reading William James' "The Varieties of Religious Experience: A Study in Human Nature", and he discusses this very thing from a psycho- and socio-evolutionary point of view. I'm hoping some of my fellow cohorts on here can join in a conversation about it....

that excellent classic, of course, is a topic for another thread, but I wanted to point out here that it is perhaps true that humanity has not sufficiently advanced to be ready for a OWR yet, and may possibly not ever be, due to the variety of human experience, nature, and worldview, and the absolute uniqueness of each human being, even while we are all 'the same'. That 'sameness' is the ONE thing that can bring us together. Not man-made laws or forced conversion or adherence to any one "doctrine" at all.

I appreciate those people who bring resources and critical thinking to the table; and it seems to me there are more of them on a nearly daily basis. Or, at least, more of them becoming un-silenced about it.

Thanks for the OP.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

Thats because the Chuck Misslers of this world are shaping "christian" thought.
Its not about the bibles words anymore.... its about what people like Chuck interpret about the bible.

Celebrity personality cults promoting the New World Order warmongering,
anti-Muslim, pro-Zionist religion.

reply to post by HeFrippedMeOff

You're right, the throne of grace is not judgment for those of us in Christ shall not see judgment. Doctrine is established for right living. Christ sacrifice is established for our salvation. This is Christianity.

Why are you saying I'm right and just continue on as if it really means nothing?
You seem to be following a dogma set out by someone that you must follow.
Why don't you admit that the Throne of Grace that Hebrews is talking about has nothing to do with your final judgement other than that you need to approach it at some point during your life, if you are to have any hope at the end of your life. There is nothing to indicate that it is referring to the judgement when it is talking about the Throne of Grace.
". . . whenever we need help." has to be talking about during our lives, so it has to mean something besides judgment.
Someone has told you how to understand it, is all I can figure, and the stature of the one telling you these things compels you to believe what he said, in the face of plain scriptural evidence telling you otherwise.
What I am describing here is the very definition of a cult.