Secrets Of The Craft From A Master Mason!

Originally posted by Scilon
reply to post by network dude

 

Third time, I am asking the Masonic Community of ATS to step back from attacking me. There will not be a fourth request.

Now, that is an attack. What kind of silly threat is that? Is that a "or else" type threat?

I dont think that was necessary. Do you?

Nobody is attacking anyone. Calm down, and have a civil discussion without threats, please.

I've known alot of masons, black and white. they have always been friendly helpful people to me at least. People are way too paranoid I think. Albert Pike is a good example. I like to camp in Arkansas at Albert Pike campground. its a gorgeous place. I started to wonder who he was. So of course I found sites like ATS and others that called him a Luceferian and a Satanist and how he has this plan for world domination etc. etc. Then one day I found an old copy of morals and dogma at a bookstore and decided to read it myself. Its not an easy read, but there are very profound statements he makes that would hardly come from a satanist. So I recommend it to anyone to read. Here is a couple excerpts I found particularly relevant to todays times.

Albert Pike - Morals and Dogma, Chapter Three

States are chiefly avaricious of commerce and of territory. The latter leads to the violation of treaties, encroachments upon feeble neighbors, and rapacity toward their wards whose lands are coveted. Republics are, in this, as rapacious and unprincipled as Despots, never learning from history that inordinate expansion by rapine and fraud has its inevitable consequences in dismemberment or subjugation. When a republic begins to plunder its neighbors, the words of doom are already written on its walls. There is a judgment already pronounced of God upon whatever is unrighteous in the conduct of national affairs. When civil war tears the vitals of a Republic, let it look back and see if it has not been guilty of injustices; and if it has, let it humble itself in the dust!

When a nation becomes possessed with a spirit of commercial greed, beyond those just and fair limits set by a due regard to a moderate and reasonable degree of general and individual prosperity, it is a nation possessed by the devil of commercial avarice, a passion as ignoble and demoralizing as avarice in the individual; and as this sordid passion is baser and more unscrupulous than ambition, so is it more hateful, and at last makes the infected nation to be regarded as the enemy of the human race. To grasp at a lion’s share of the commerce, has always at last proven to be the ruin of States, because it invariably leads to injustices that make a State detestable; to a selfishness and crooked policy that forbid other nations to be the friends of a State that cares only for itself.

[...]

A war for a great principle ennobles a nation. A war for commercial supremacy, upon some shallow pretext, is despicable, and more than aught else demonstrates to what immeasurable depths of baseness men and nations can descend. Commercial greed values the lives of men no more than it values the lives of ants...

And another even better one.

Albert Pike – Morals and Dogma, Chapter Seven

Masonry, by its teachings, endeavors to restrain men from the commission of injustice and acts of wrong and outrage. Though it does not endeavor to usurp the place of religion, still its code of morals proceeds upon other principles than the municipal law; and it condemns and punishes offences which neither that law punishes nor public opinion condemns. In the Masonic law, to cheat and overreach in trade, at the bar, in politics, are deemed no more venial than theft; nor a deliberate lie than perjury; nor slander than robbery; nor seduction than murder.

Especially it condemns those wrongs of which the doer induces another to partake. He may repent; he may, after agonizing struggles, regain the path of virtue; his spirit may reachieve its purity through much anguish, after many strifes; but the weaker fellow-creature whom he led astray, whom he made a sharer in his guilt, but whom he cannot make a sharer in his repentance and amendment, whose downward course (the first step of which he taught) he cannot check, but is compelled to witness,--what forgiveness of sins can avail him there? There is his perpetual, his inevitable punishment, which no repentance can alleviate, and no mercy can remit.

I don't think anyone could possibly say he was an evil man when you read some of his thoughts.

reply to post by Sly1one


I have asked some of those questions as well, but I have not heard the answer yet. Specifically to Satan. The more I look into the Mason the less impressed I become with their thought process. Being Agnostic as well , I view them no better than any other religious cult where they have to accept a gut feeling (faith) as a fact to become part of the club.

However, they have the right to exist and allow who ever they like to join and keep there secrets just like the members of Scientology. Although, it does Amuse me that some of the so called Mason here consider Scientology as a cult. Scientologist, believe in a higher being (Aliens I believe) would they be allowed to join?

On one hand I don't really mind the Mason because they DO a lot of good charity , but on another hand I'm very skeptical of their true Agenda. In addition, the majority of time its the nicest and most trustworthy people that do the most Heinous of crimes (priest,family members,teachers,etc).

Therefore IMO their actions don't appear to FULLY sync with their motto of to do good or better mankind.
1. Why would you limit who can join a good cause?
2. Why would they not encourage or accept outstanding citizens from the scientific community who the majority do not accept with 100% certainty that a GOD exists? Yet they are willing to accept the majority of the less educated community who are willing to accept a gut feeling(faith) as 100% certainty of a creator?
3. Which brings me to: Are uneducated or mentally handicap members allowed to join and flourish among the group? I know that you help them, but do you consider them equals enough to join your cause?
4. etc,.............

It looks like and edit was done a previous post where they answered the satan question:

Edit: As for Satan, again... we don't ask, and we don't mandate

So they allow in members who believe Satan is an Evil doer, and yet they allow members who Worhip him(Satan) to join their cause to help human kind.

IMO this would be a great way to start a Satanic club where people are free to worship Satan without repercussions which could also explain some of the secrecy. After all I think you have to reach a certain high level within the Church of Scientology to find out that their GOD is an alien.Maybe the 162nd Mason discovers that Satan is their GOD?

I can't deny that they DO a lot of good and I have worked with several people that are Mason that are great people. However,like I said before the more I find out about the Mason organization the more skeptical and less impressed I become with them and their thought process.

Note I think many Mason are good people with good intentions at the lower levels who don't really know about the true Agenda until much later and possibly never. However, I'm not so sure about the very few at the top who hold ALL the secrets nor if they truly have good intentions based from their rules.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo

Well I am not a Mason, YouAreLiedTo, but I do know a few, and I agree with you. The lies and innuendo needs to stop, and let's face it, posts like this one opens up some of the secrets, and let's people see inside the Craft a little bit. By the way, my family was helped by Masons, Shriners, in fact, and I will always be in their debt.

I also know that some Masons are in fact Pagans/Wiccans. Not a think wrong with that. It is only Christianity that tries to demonize us, and kill us off, we Wiccan/Pagans get more hate, and flak from good meaning Christians than from anyone else.

Carry on, Mason, and do what you do. As I said, I will always bear a debt for what Masons did for my lovely daughter, who is alive today because of your organization.
Cheers

reply to post by Haxsaw

So you don't trust anyone then? Everyone keeps secrets.

Yeah, that scenario doesn't work as we are very open about our fraternity. Just look at some of the ATS Masons comments as well as the abundant sites out there that discusses Masonry in depth. You don't have an accurate outlook on Masonry or what we are allowed to talk about.

reply to post by Mandrakerealmz

His Masonic membership is incidental to his criminal activity. If it is proven then he should be impeached (or whatever Kiwis do to punish their leadership).

Actually the only legitimate Masonic symbol is a cornerstone which was dedicated by the Grand Lodge of Colorado.

reply to post by phantomjack

Apparently the smallest opposition to his beliefs is an attack. I gave up rather quickly on trying to be nice to that poster.

To be perfectly honest, i know freemasons in the uk are the most corrupt self serving bunch of morons i have ever had the displeasure to meet.
Fortunately in the cosmic scheme your just a bunch of nobodies who only get to control the people because you are allowed to.
I doubt there is a man among you that has made any REAL discoveries about the true nature of the universe, all you know is what you have been told, all you have done is learn what the true "Giants" of soul and discovery have presented for you.
Standing on the shoulders of giants, is a bunch of know nothing dwarves.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Scilon

 

I am a Pagan Mason here, although not gay or a lawyer.

However I would like to know more of these "crimes and more sinister side" of Masonry please.
I have been unaware of this in my almost 10 years in the craft.
My home lodge being most probably the wealthiest lodge in Kalifornia, has given away tens of thousands in scholarships and the same in charity, not to mention personal time or out of pocket donations to a random hat collection for any emergency cause.
Have I ever met a jerk Mason? Sure but that jerk would give me the shirt off of his back and I'd do the same for him.
Masonry other than believing in a supreme being only asks that you love your fellow man as you would your Brother.
I have seen no ill intent in any of my travels.

I haven't, so far, seen anything of the sinister side mentioned here, g146541 but I'm a firm believer in this:
Absence of evidence isn't necessarily evidence of absence.
I present to you Rosewood, FL: Please debate freely for I'm just posting an incident, not my opinion of it.
I'll leave that to you all who know better than I. (no sarcasm intended.)
Brief snip it:

In 1920, Rosewood blacks had three churches, a school, a large Masonic Hall, a turpentine mill, a sugarcane mill, a baseball team and two general stores (one of which was white-owned). The village had about two dozen plank two-story homes, some other small houses, as well as several small unoccupied plank structures.

On January 1, 1923, in Sumner, a 22-year-old married white woman named Fannie Taylor claimed a black man had knocked on her door in the morning and then attacked her. Her official report stated he beat her about the face, but did not rape her. Other sources (and rumor) claimed that she was both raped and robbed.

Nine-year-old Lee Ruth Davis, a black resident of Rosewood, later reported that Mrs. Taylor had been visited by a white man employed by the Seaboard Air Line Railway. Davis' grandmother was Sarah Carrier, who did Mrs. Taylor's washing and ironing once a week. Carrier and Davis' young cousin, who was helping her deliver laundry, witnessed the white man enter the Taylor house and leave some time before noon. Other African Americans also contended Mrs. Taylor had a white lover.

Black survivors recalled that Mrs. Taylor's white visitor John Bradley knew he was in trouble and had asked Sam Carter for assistance as a fellow veteran and Mason. They said Carter also had help from Aaron Carrier, another Mason, and covered Bradley in the back of a wagon. Carter took Bradley to a nearby river, let him out of the wagon, then returned home.

The report provided an account of the failings of government to protect its citizens. It gave support for a compensation bill for survivors, a bill which proponents were fighting to get passed. Some lobbyists began to receive hate mail, including some from Ku Klux Klan members. One legislator remarked that the mail from public opposition was an unprecedented 10 to 1.[13] People resisted learning about the terrible events in Florida's history.

Did you ever honor these, your masonic brothers?

Solomon was said to be wise in that he used his power and knowledge to rule fairly.
Symbols such as the pentagram and pyramid have been usurped and their original meanings twisted and used for ill intent.
Knights Templar's were hounded and persecuted for simply seeking truth and using discretion in regard of whom they shared their knowledge with .
As I see it - Recognizing One Creator is the essence of all things - I get that.
To me it does not seem the Masons preach some outmoded dogma but at their heart are open to discuss such ideas.
Sure every society or group has bad apples also.
Attacking Masons is as worthless as attacking Christianity or Muslim or Judaism - Why do it for at their heart they recognize One and the same God - Sure everything is and can be corrupted - I personally have no religion yet find common ground with the essence of their teachings which is doing unto others as you would would have done to self IE Love and respect of one's fellow beings.
Rather than attack Masons as a whole or any group - Pin point the individuals and their deeds

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


my dad was a highly intelligent,successful and good humoured man.he was highly principled and at the same time accepting of others.he was also quite a high ranking mason (at a local level).
when i was 23 or 24 i asked him to nominate me. he told me it wasnt necessary to make contacts,my primary interest.and also it was not for me,as i was too questioning to authority,not in a bad stupid self entitled way,just always very certain that i would understand the reasoning behind any decision therefore it was not for me.that was the only conversation on the matter as he stated that he would not bother joining if he had his life to live again.
so no intrigue,no fanfare,just was advised it was not for me by someone who always advised me well.
only thing i will say is when he died,after retiring to another country,my mother and i were suprised as to the amount of non family menbers who we could almost place or not place at all,that attended his funeral.we had not advertised the death in our local newspaper obits (as was the custom).family and close friends only were informed and as in all things some of them could not attend.two flights at least an overnight stay.fully understandable.why did these people bother to attend and how did they find out.
in summing up i dont think it was an evil thing but it certainly does have its connections....

Freemasonry is not for me because I too... like many others... seek light in Freemasonry.
Freemasonry is more service than there is light in the craft.
If I want to rise a degree I must buy into it with services I know I can't perform.
Is that sucky or what?????
BUT! But Freemasonry is awesome power... I am so glad that they have their own country.

Originally posted by Scilon
reply to post by network dude

 

I fear we elevated the hostility too quickly. I apologize for my part in that exchange. As to your request for evidence or proof, it's a well known fact that within the UK at least, a greater portion of the high ranking male Nobility are Freemasons. Would you challenge this statement?

I agree, and feel perhaps I could have started with a blunt object and worked my way up to a dagger.
But I really do not know if any world leaders who are masons.

As well, you would know better than I how many America politicians and industry leaders have been cable-towed on one foot through your lodge doors. I could run an exhaustive effort and provide many names and instances but that effort would be a rehash of already existing research.

again, I am not aware of any at the present time.

For my part, I am against all secret orders, societies, mystery religions and shadow cabals, not from a hostile stand point but in the same way that I am against the various warring hierarchical cults who have our nations in their fanatics' grip.

Looking at the long game, I believe it will soon become unnecessary for large groups of influential men to gather and meet in secret from those whom they exclude, and even look down on. Yes, I am but a cowan, some widows son but I am an educated and highly aware widow's son.

I hope that you, I and other ATS Masons can continue from here amicably instead of with daggers drawn.

I don't see the point in reposting other sources which are already very much part of the public record. I assume you will not play dumb with me, but are yourself acutely aware of the Freemasonic influence within America, the United Kingdom and elsewhere.

edit on 13-3-2012 by Scilon because: (no reason given)

How about just a link to all this online information then?

I think I have figured out your issue with the craft. You believe that "masonry" had to do with the French Revolution and the American Revolution. That is not true. Men whom some happened to be masons were part of those events and I believe the masonic mindset helped in those events, but there was no "Masonic" decree or official involvement. I can see how it would look that way, but knowing how the structure of masonry is, there is no way that masonry as a whole could do anything.

All masonic bodies that are chartered by the UGLE do adhear to similar standards, but no governing body has any authority or even a means of communication to other groups or states. Each State is separate under it's own leadership. As I am sure you could imagine, leadership in England would not have authorized or wanted an American revolution. The men who formed those groups did so as men, not as masons. I hope this clears up your opinion somewhat.

If per chance there were these really higher up installed masons...
What harm can that really do?

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


At your level of participation, it is harmless. So what are you saying master mason; There are no things that you are unawhere of? No secret is kept from you? do you even know who your true master is? You sound Naieve

Originally posted by cointelprotroll
do you even know who your true master is? You sound Naieve

edit on 14-3-2012 by cointelprotroll because: (no reason given)

Ahahahah!!!!

Thanks for the great belly laugh! The guy who has spent years inside, wait, let me say this again, INSIDE, knows less than some keyboard bandit on the interwebs.

BTW, who is my true master? And be careful not to bait me.

Brethren,
I liked the original intent of this post, but I feel the endeavor is degrading into simple arguments. In this whole topic I only saw one person who seemed to have benefit from this & wishes to seek out a lodge. To that person I would like to add if your seeking a lodge if you google search your state's grand lodge we usually have lodge listings for you to find the closest lodge to you. Within 25 miles of me there are 64 lodges we are quite widespread & where ever you are I'm sure a little reasearch will show you the quickest easiest way to reach us. To the brother who said in California they're now allowing invites I can confirm the same is true here in PA. The Right Worshipful Grandmaster is calling it the "Masonic Renessance" here. To my brethren trying to end the conspiricies about us, brother I respect the attempt but people will believe what they want to believe. Wisdom seeks the seeker brother. If they truely wanted answers to their questions they would politely come to us & seek true Masonic light. Please don't fall prey to bickering. To any non-mason believing they have secret knowledge about our fraternity believe what you want, but the only way to ever know the truth is to see it for yourself. We're a fraternity of brothers who help & support each other. To all who say some men who wear Masonic symbols have done reprehensible things I ask you two questions. The first is are you truely sure he is in fact a Mason? The second question I ask you is a community completely responsible for all actions of it's every member? If it is so than I would like to add that your responsible for our actions as well because outside the lodge we're all active & supporting members to our community. No mason is just a mason & only a mason. One of our core values is family first & if there's anything you can't attend because of the needs of your family we always hold it as an acceptable excuse in any situation.

reply to post by ThirdDegree


This type of conversation has been going on here for years. And believe it or not, the ones who start with the "you worship Lucifer" junk will sometimes end up finding the truth about masonry and some have even joined. I don't believe it's a completely wasted effort and I have learned quite a bit from these discussions.

Who knows, if you stick around, you may find out who YOUR true master is.

I do see the benefit as well. I saw one poster claim he intends to seek a lodge now. I'm just saying though please don't fall prey to petty arguments that end up benefiting no one except the fools wishing to slander us as much as possible. Anyone seeking truth will come find it.

Originally posted by ThirdDegree
I do see the benefit as well. I saw one poster claim he intends to seek a lodge now. I'm just saying though please don't fall prey to petty arguments that end up benefiting no one except the fools wishing to slander us as much as possible. Anyone seeking truth will come find it.

Always mindful of the EA charge:

neither are you to suffer your zeal for the institution to lead you into argument with those who, through ignorance, may ridicule it.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Exactly. Thank you. I don't mean to come off as too zealous either. I'm just stateing my short case, & from here on shal just remain quiet unless asked a question. Thank you for listening.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Your EA Charge what ever an EA is makes perfect sense to me for the following reasons.

To be a zealot.- even if that which you teach is true is a disservice to that truth.
One should make one's point simply and clearly and leave the other their own free choice to believe or not.
Argument should not be mistaken for discussion. To merely argue one's own point is a form of indoctrination.