What if HUD disappeared? (rand paul article) Ron Paul was same veiws.

reply to post by Rockpuck


If you have NOTHING postive to add then get off this thread. I clearly stated I did not want judgemental comments! WE ALL PAY TAXES IN SOME FORM. I paid taxes and I still do. YOu are very ignorant! Get off your high horse and stop judging my life or the poor's life! You sound like a jerk and part of the problem to me!
NO more judgemental comments or I will ask for this thread to be closed. This was supposed to be a HUMANE compassionate discussion about a real problem 46 million americans are facing. For all those who want to judge others GROW UP!

reply to post by dreamseeker


Maybe we should tether 4 poor Americans to every Middle Class American, and divide the one workers income by 4! Then think of all the things you could buy! And if you ever run out of money, need a new tv, sneakers or fill up on beer and smokes, you can just use your debit card attached to their account! Because we should all share in the burdens of the .... poor. Hells, I have an urge to write you a check right now for half my savings so you can continue not working.

At the rate this country is going, what's the incentive to work hard and be productive?

*sigh* .. I get the feeling you don't like me. But I will continue paying my taxes so you can live in comfort regardless.

Here is a reminider of the orginal thread. I don't want to see anymore posts about blaming poor people or about your tax dollars paying for it blah blah blah. This was the orginal discusssion that I was hoping would be more postive in nature.

What can be done to fix HUD without cutting it? What should be provided as an alternative to nothing. Please no judgements or comments about how poor people are lazy. DO NOT COMMENT IF YOU ARE GOING TO SAY SOMETHING LIKE IF YOU CAN"T AFFORD HOUSING YOU DON"T DERSERVE IT! If you have no compassion do not reply. This is not a debate just a humane discussion

reply to post by dreamseeker

reply to post by Rockpuck


I HAVE A DISABLITY you jerk! I worked hard for 15 years of my life! I don't buy beer or cigarettes. Get back on track with discussion. I can't see why you can't be adult about this!
It hurts that I belong to a web site that judges me for being disabled. How did this happen?
BY THE WAY WE ALL PAY TAXES NOT JUST YOU. Look at any recpiet from mcdonalds, target or whatever notice a sales tax?

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by Rockpuck

 

I HAVE A DISABLITY you jerk! I worked hard for 15 years of my life! I don't buy beer or cigarettes. Get back on track with discussion. I can't see why you can't be adult about this!
It hurts that I belong to a web site that judges me for being disabled. How did this happen?

dreamseeker, ignore it.

I agree with you that the well being of everyone in our society is our shared responsibility.
I believe states would more effectively manage this situation if more wealth remained in the state instead of going to the federal government.

Some people are emotional because of what they see on their check stub, and I can relate 100%. The fault is not with the disabled, or the poor, however, but with how our federal government has mismanaged programs made to support those who cannot support themselves.

And yes, I acknowledge the fact that many take advantage of the system.. Another goal that could be accomplished while moving these programs to the state level would be to identify and eliminate fraud. Again, I believe this would be easier and more effectively accomplished within the state by the state. I don't have specific examples right now, but it makes perfect sense to me.

I know someone who collects disability for some psychological thing. She has no physical disability, and her emotional problems aren't apparent either. It really seems to me like she's just getting free money, because I know for a fact she's capable of working. So yes, the system is flawed and allowed for people to leech from it, but there are people who legitimately rely on our support and I believe they should get it.

reply to post by dreamseeker


What can be done to fix HUD: Nothing. HUD is designed for broken things, broken people and broken places .. it wasn't designed to be efficient or profitable.

The only good HUD does for society as a whole (that is everyone, not just the poor) is revitalize dilapidated areas.. though usually if a HUD public housing unit is added to an area, the area dilapidated rapidly because frankly no one wants to live around it.

reply to post by dreamseeker


what is so hard for all you to understand. he wants to cut all these at the federal level, not the state. he is talking about the federal govt getting out of this and making the states have the power over this. back to the local level. wtf is so hard for people to understand boput this. or do some just try to post heresay and lies and other false crap just to make someone look bad.

reply to post by Rockpuck


What would you suggest to be put in it's place? It is not true that all HUD housing is falling apart. My apartment is very nice and I live in section 8. I even have a fireplace.(I never use it but it is nice.) It is not fancy but I really enjoy living here. There is no crime so far.

reply to post by letscit


No hearsay to make people look bad just what i am reading. I have good intentions to make sure the poor is not hurt worse with the next adminstration. I am pretty sure the state relies on the federal level at some point?

reply to post by dreamseeker


Why would something have to take it's place? It's not the Federal Government responsibility. I don't enjoy paying for other states citizens to enjoy subsidized housing.. I wouldn't have such a big problem with local, state or city, but in no way should the Federal Government be involved in anything even remotely like HUD.

And just like you being poor are looking out for poor people.. Me, being Middle Income and equally looking out for "my people" if you will .. the middle class who's been a punching bag for all sides for the past few decades. All the while we get absolutely NO assistance. With anything.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by letscit

 

No hearsay to make people look bad just what i am reading. I have good intentions to make sure the poor is not hurt worse with the next adminstration. I am pretty sure the state relies on the federal level at some point?

...

The states do rely on federal funding, but ONLY BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS TAKING THAT WEALTH FROM THE STATES IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Sorry to yell, but that's like the umpteenth time.

You should not be paying a federal income tax. You want to know what's extra screwed up about the whole thing, dreamseeker? I bet you pay a federal tax on your income..

Income that is provided through tax dollars. So they are taxing us, giving our money out, then taxing that money a second time. Messed up, no?

Or perhaps your income falls short of being taxable, in which case you can claim EIC and effectively have a negative AGI.. Which means you get a refund for money you didn't even pay into the tax system!

I'm not saying you shouldn't get support, you should, but you have to look at it from other perspectives.. Is this the best way to offer support? Is this fair to others?

As has been said in this thread many times by different people, no one has a problem with moving these programs back to the state level and allowing our local governments to determine how to best and most effectively support the poor, the elderly, and the disabled.. But to know that my tax dollars are funding a lot of fraud and free rides kind of stings.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
Here is a reminider of the orginal thread. I don't want to see anymore posts about blaming poor people or about your tax dollars paying for it blah blah blah. This was the orginal discusssion that I was hoping would be more postive in nature.

BULL! You don't set up a thread and then attempt to dictate in bounds and off limits issues so long as both are related to the original article. You wanted a Rand/Ron Paul smear thread and are disturbed because differing viewpoints are being presented. We get that.

The premise of the actions being suggested by RAND Paul are correct in nature and I agree with him. We do not live in a world of sunshine and farts where warm fuzzy feeling programs like HUD aren't abused by society or where these programs pay for themselves. We live in a world of REALITY, where somebody's disability or poverty is NOT my concern. I have two little mouths to feed, not 46 million. I never signed up for that and am frankly sick and tired of being leeched by a broken system and a small portion of the nation which views the middle class as a giant milk cow just waiting to have the cups of the milking machine attached.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Yeah but the middle class isn't starving or facing homelessnes. I am for the middle class to but I believe in helping from the poorest person up. If the middle is starving or suffering with the basics of life then they are not middle class but poor as well.

the bottom line is, a social safety net is ok and is necessary for certain situations but it can only be executed through voluntarism and not through coercion and we all know once that happens, we stop being a free society (and yes it has already happened).

But that isn't even what Ron Paul is talking about, he wants to get the federal government out of the affairs of what was supposed to be solely state affairs, and rightly so, it is what the Constitution has specifically stated.

So I don't understand where the confusion is?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


So you would rather see 46 million people starving and on the streets that is selfish. I set up this thread for a discussion because I was sick of the judgements about poor people. Those same people are usually republican or ron paul followers. I was inspired by another thread and I started my own instead of derailing that thread.
If you are struggling to have the basics in life then you are poor not middle class so I don't see why you would not want to help your own?
no offense but you sound really cynical. A country that can not help it's poor or weakest does not deserve to suceed or even exist. I am not for scarficing a group of people or anyone for that matter. We need a country based on human need not human greed. Whatever happened to simply human love?

reply to post by eLPresidente


This is the united states of america not the states of america. Everything depends on something at a federal level. There is a program that got cut for people in my state due to not having enough money. Would each state be able to support their own residents? Would it be better or worse for the poor? would more people be able to get into public housing? Would there be more public housing created?
How can the HUD program improve at the state level if there is no connection or funding on a federal level?

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

If you are struggling to have the basics in life then you are poor not middle class so I don't see why you would not want to help your own?

edit on 28-11-2011 by dreamseeker because: (no reason given)

Follow me here, please. The middle class are being driven down by the ever increasing tax and price demands placed on them to foot the bill for the poor. That system doesn't differentiate between the lazy poor who do nothing but sit on their fat butt claiming laziness is a disabillity or that they were dealt a bad hand and those who are legitimately in need of help. At this time, the middle class is being leeched to pay for a broken system. Until such time as the system is fixed, it should be completly shut off. To continue running it is to piss away the tax payer's dollars and expect them to just choke it down. Most of the middle class is essentially just one major illness or lost job away from being poor. THAT is messed up. Everyone who works should pay for them and their own FIRST and then worry about everyone else. Instead, we have it backwards... the IRS swoops in and claims money out of people's paychecks first, then we wage earners get the joy of dragging together the remains so we can budget ourselves into being able to afford life. In addition to that, we have a whole slew of property managers, banks, and supermarkets who augment their particpiation in government hand out programs by jacking the costs up to those of us who actually earn our way through life. Again, BROKEN system. Kill it now before it kills us all.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


sorry but reading from his posts in this thread, he'll never get it because according to him, liberals are the only ones that want real change, anybody else is selfish (including Ron Paul supporters, wow).




Essentially, anybody that doesn't want to be forced with a gun to conform into a corrupt system is bad.

reply to post by dreamseeker


Want to know why the Poor is growing so fast?

Middle class folks were tossed out of their homes, lost their jobs, and because of the corporate greed and political corruption the capacity to deal with a crisis once it hit them was nullified. The middle class has money, but we hang on by a thread, we have the same worries: Can i afford to fill my cars tank? Can I afford groceries this month? Which bills can I get away with not paying?

Because we get NO assistance. WE don't get food stamps, free school lunch, tuition assistance, subsidized housing or welfare. WE don't even get health assistance, we get no medicaid, we don't enjoy the benefits that YOU get even though WE pay for it.

HUD is just another example of an institution floated along by the Middle Class that we could never benefit from .. if you want us to pay for something, we should at least be able to partake in the goods.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


but what about the people who live on less than $800 a month. Who can not afford socks and have to scrap money together just to pay bills? The poor have it worse than the middle class. I am all for the lower middle class getting help too if they need it.
we can't just cut off millions just because the middle class is struggling less than the poor. The poor have it so much worse.