Thailand Floods - rain-making gone mad???

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by luxordelphi
So essentially you're saying that there is no relationship - cause and effect - between geoengineering and floods.

Personally I think you have not shown any evidence that cloud seeding was a cause for this flood.

I can see how cloud seeding COULD be a cause for flooding - along with many other possible factors - but to say that it IS a cause you need to have some evidence of the connection.

And there's been none presented for this instance.

Right, which was the original OP. Cloud seeding was done. Cloud seeding was done with the stated intent of rain. Rain came. More rain came. Previous rain was still around. New rain coupled with old still around rain caused death/disaster. Stated intent was rain. Action - cloud seeding - followed stated intent. The governments' stated intent with cloud seeding was to make rain. Whether they could make rain or not or were deluded into thinking they could make rain or whether cloud seeding can make rain is irrelevent. Their behavior in light of their stated intent was reckless, lost lives, jeapordized lives and livelihood for the remaining.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Rain making happens within a few days....if it happens at all.

the monsoons occured weeks and months after the rain making.

You need to show that there is some mechanism or connection between the 2 rather than 1 came after the other.

Correlation is not causality - you might as well says that prayers for rain caused the monsoon floods too - I am sure there have been prayers for rain in parts of Thailand that were affected by drought prior to the monsoons....in fact a quick search for "Thais pray for rain" yeilds Thai rain festivals!! and lo and behold they got too much rain .....so that's praying for rain gone mad.

i know this is kind of off topic... but i just realized how much hard drive prices skyrocketed due to the thailand floods. 3 TB drive went from 110$ to 190$ and prices arent expected to normalize till Q2 2012. according to western digital 40% of hard drives are manufactured in thailand and 60% of WD's alone are made there. up side though is ram prices are supposed to drop.

these where only 62.50$ shipped like 4 months ago
WD green 1.5 TB

139.99 now

reply to post by gougitousakusha


It's just freakin' obsecen that 3Tb is

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

I am sure there have been prayers for rain in parts of Thailand that were affected by drought prior to the monsoons

Nice try. I'm talking action: planes, generators, cannons, rockets, flares, drums, satellites, GPS. It's called geoengineering or 'let's blow stuff up and see what happens.'

reply to post by luxordelphi


No it's not called geoengineering.

It is called cloud seeding or weather modification, and it's not about "blowing stuff up" at all.

And prayer is "doing something" too.

And you still haven't established a link.

And what is it you now think satellites are doing as part of whatever it is you are now concerned about??

Look, there is no evidence cloud seeding works - let alone that it affected the SE Asian monsoon

On the other hand, I sacrificed 3 cats and cast a spell last week to enshrine NE USA in icey cold and look what happened.

It kind of ticks me off when the clone corp wants to pretend like everythings' always just ducky. And why are they all Brits? Mystifying. Geoengineering is in full gear. Weather modification is part of it. Weather gone wild and, as the OP said, 'rain-making gone mad' are serious issues. If seasons are no longer predictable, the government had no business risking lives. You can't force geoengineering and then when it costs lives step back and say it doesn't work. Truth is it didn't used to work. It does now. What changed? And for those in the back: satellites are used in rainmaking. We've moved on from dancing.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Geoengineering is in full gear.

So you say - and consistently refuse to present any actual evidence

Weather modification is part of it. Weather gone wild and, as the OP said, 'rain-making gone mad' are serious issues.

And have been since Noah......

If seasons are no longer predictable, the government had no business risking lives.

there you go again - who says seasons aren't predictable? Who says the Govt was risking lives??

what's the evidence? Your conclusion that cloud seeding in the dry season affects the monsoons that happen months later??

Seriously? You expect intelligent people to think that constitutes evidence???

You can't force geoengineering and then when it costs lives step back and say it doesn't work. Truth is it didn't used to work. It does now. What changed?

Truth is you are making all this up - what are you distracting us from with this poppycock??

And for those in the back: satellites are used in rainmaking.

Really?? How does that work then??

Just another invention of yours I reckon

reply to post by luxordelphi


well said. we both know whats being discussed here.... After reading some responses here, seems like most just can't grasp the idea that a monsoon or wet season brings rain and floods to replenish the off seasons lack of rain. Its why its seasoned, dry, wet, dry, wet.... A natural balance. To make rain inbetween the monsoon seasons is in effect messing with nature...

I'm simple terms for those who can't understand what we are discussing they changed it from natural dry wet dry wet seasons to man made wet wet wet wet seasons... Even the met bureau of Thailand quoted in the offseason that rainfall was higher than normal. Thanks for the link too A of Gaul.

Ultimately the monsoon floods have now combined with the man made water in the region to create unprecedented floods...

I will say here clearly there is evidence of cloud seeding being done prior to the monsoon season and that is stipulated in the OP, can anyone supply evidence of cloud seeding having stopped during the monsoons???

And also if you are going to say the evidence isn't in the OP, then when were they cloud seeding if it wasn't the off season??

To make rain when it was suppose to be dry may have had some effect... Thats the discussion, Hence why this thread asks has "rain making gone mad"

I'm starting to think we have some people here hellbent on derailing a valid discussion...

I don't worry, we know what we are discussing here...

Originally posted by luxordelphi
It kind of ticks me off when the clone corp wants to pretend like everythings' always just ducky. And why are they all Brits? Mystifying.

What's nationality got to do with anything? You may well say that, but then a common perception of Americans among the British is that they are paranoid gullible idiots, and we all know that's not true don't we. Everyone has their stereotypes.

As it happens I've not commented in this thread because I do see the point the OP is making and am evaluating it against the counter arguments and doing a bit of research myself. These floods are a subject I haven't really looked at before so it would be silly of me to declare myself for or against before thinking about it.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
It kind of ticks me off when the clone corp wants to pretend like everythings' always just ducky.

Why, what is not going as it should?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
And why are they all Brits? Mystifying. Geoengineering is in full gear.

Have a source to back up that claim?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Weather modification is part of it. Weather gone wild and, as the OP said, 'rain-making gone mad' are serious issues.

Disagree, weather modification isn't even very effective.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Weather gone wild and, as the OP said, 'rain-making gone mad' are serious issues. If seasons are no longer predictable, the government had no business risking lives.

How is weather modification affecting seasons? Seasons are caused by the tilt of the Earth, which affects the weather. Who's life is being risked by making rain come out of an existing cloud?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
You can't force geoengineering and then when it costs lives step back and say it doesn't work. Truth is it didn't used to work. It does now. What changed? And for those in the back: satellites are used in rainmaking. We've moved on from dancing.

Also worth noting that there was serious flooding in Thailand this time last year - they even dispatched an aircraft carrier to rescue people! But on that occasion Bangkok itself wasn't affected so it recieved little attention

asiancorrespondent.com...

www.mcot.net...

There was flooding in Oct 2009 as well ........

It's what happens.

reply to post by OzTruth


Here's the thing: 'owning the weather' seems to be an open invitation to experiment with the global population. This is a mad scientists' dream. We are the lab rats. The few posters who mentioned political situations in Thailand and U.S. support for the current militarized regime were interesting too. Interesting because I think that the U.S. is a major player in the weather wars. Everybody's doing it though - China, Russia...these are the most vocal or the ones we hear about the most. It's kind of like the space race used to be. Gotta get there first because war can be made with weather and we need technology to combat that or even act as aggressors. That all makes it really tough, though, to look into things because they're all DOD secrets. It's reckless.

These weather wars have been going on for hundreds of millions on years.

That said, we are geoengineering and the latest IPCC report states that our geoengineering is making weather extremes more severe. Whether you beleive in AGW is another matter

Originally posted by OzTruth
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

well said. we both know whats being discussed here.... After reading some responses here, seems like most just can't grasp the idea that a monsoon or wet season brings rain and floods to replenish the off seasons lack of rain. Its why its seasoned, dry, wet, dry, wet.... A natural balance. To make rain inbetween the monsoon seasons is in effect messing with nature...

No, during part of the year, weather conditions aren't conducive to rainfall. In the other, they are. Nothing to do with "balance" or any "offset".

I'm simple terms for those who can't understand what we are discussing they changed it from natural dry wet dry wet seasons to man made wet wet wet wet seasons... Even the met bureau of Thailand quoted in the offseason that rainfall was higher than normal. Thanks for the link too A of Gaul.

Was it higher than normal enough to be statistically significant? What does that mean for monsoon season?

Ultimately the monsoon floods have now combined with the man made water in the region to create unprecedented floods...

You've failed to establish a causal relationship. Why did you come to the conclusion that this flood must be because of cloud seeding?

I will say here clearly there is evidence of cloud seeding being done prior to the monsoon season and that is stipulated in the OP, can anyone supply evidence of cloud seeding having stopped during the monsoons???

What evidence? I'm sure it stopped, it doesn't make much sense to seed clouds that are already raining.

And also if you are going to say the evidence isn't in the OP, then when were they cloud seeding if it wasn't the off season??

To make rain when it was suppose to be dry may have had some effect... Thats the discussion, Hence why this thread asks has "rain making gone mad"

I'm starting to think we have some people here hellbent on derailing a valid discussion...

I don't worry, we know what we are discussing here...

You're assuming it was "supposed" to be dry. Who determines what the weather "should" and "shouldn't" be?

Problem is, you're making too many assumptions. Why are you assuming that cloud seeding is the culprit, was there flooding caused by it?

Originally posted by Essan
These weather wars have been going on for hundreds of millions on years.

That said, we are geoengineering and the latest IPCC report states that our geoengineering is making weather extremes more severe. Whether you beleive in AGW is another matter

Climate change and global warming are happening. This much can be observed. The entire solar system is experiencing climate change and warming. That is also being observed. Man made greenhouse gasses deniers as the impetus for global warming used solar system warming to prove their case that man is not responsible for our current situation. Every money-driven contingent seems to have a stake here. Climate modeling since the '60's (it's an old science that had its' dinosaur days with psycho-cybernetics in the '60's) has come a long ways and yet those models have all been shot to pieces. It's the X factor. Something changed.

You can't fault governments for trying to combat that change using weather modification but you can fault them for reckless experimentation with the helpless population.

Patriots go to war to fight an enemy of their country, its' ideals and people. This is a war but where's the enemy?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Climate change and global warming are happening. This much can be observed.

Agreed, that is what the data is indicating. But he was saying we are geo-engineering by putting CO2 into the air, not geo-engineering to fix it!

Originally posted by luxordelphi
The entire solar system is experiencing climate change and warming. That is also being observed.

Source?

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Man made greenhouse gasses deniers as the impetus for global warming used solar system warming to prove their case that man is not responsible for our current situation. Every money-driven contingent seems to have a stake here.

Yes, the anti-science, anti-climate change lobby has a lot of money. The CATO institute is a good example of climate change denial, funded by the Koch brothers, go figure.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Climate modeling since the '60's (it's an old science that had its' dinosaur days with psycho-cybernetics in the '60's) has come a long ways and yet those models have all been shot to pieces. It's the X factor. Something changed.

Modelling becomes more advanced each year. Not sure what you're getting at, "changed", here.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
You can't fault governments for trying to combat that change using weather modification but you can fault them for reckless experimentation with the helpless population.

You can't fault them because they aren't trying to combat climate change with weather modification. Weather =/= climate, changing local weather conditions will not effect the climate.

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Patriots go to war to fight an enemy of their country, its' ideals and people. This is a war but where's the enemy?

I think the websites you're reading have you up in arms against the wrong people. You shouldn't be against the airplanes making contrails, but rather the industries that are ruining the environment.

Here's something of interest from 2006 from Queensland in Australia:

news.ninemsn.com.au...

Governors of Queensland here explore the possibility of cloud seeding with a $7.6 million (don't know if this is dollars or?) over 4 years price tag. This was being considered to solve the problem of many more people and much less rainfall.

"Cloud seeding works - it is science fact not science fiction - but it only works in limited circumstances," Mr Beattie said.

"Cloud seeding is unlikely to be a useful tool statewide but it could help increase rainfall in specific regions."

Mr Beattie said the pilot program would see aircraft take to the skies during the spring-summer period when suitable clouds were available for seeding.

The study would use new radar technology at Mt Stapylton, west of Brisbane, to track clouds and monitor rainfall.

However, Mr Wallace said approval to undertake cloud seeding was yet to be sought from Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej.

He said the government was looking to conduct the project in conjunction with the Bureau of Meteorology and the United States National Centre for Atmospheric Research.

So that kind of puts together the cloud seeding-Thai-U.S.-money connection. How the King of Thailand wound up with the patents is an interesting question too.

reply to post by luxordelphi


You can look up the Thai king's interest in cloud seeding on the 'net (Google search)- he's quite proud of it & ostensibly the thai's are also quiet proud of their King's academic and practical brilliance in the area.

50 years of Thailand cloud seeding activity (250kb pdf) is a good overview for the country as a whole.