So, You Hate TPTB. Whats your solution?

No, this thread is not going to be in defense of the dreaded "TPTB"
But rather an observation, statement of opinion followed by a request for your input.

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Everybody seems to need a bad guy. All throughout human history we have seen both real and imaginary bad guys come and go. Our present modern world is no different. We really haven't advanced all that much when it comes to this need.

Let's take a quick look at many of the thread themes here at ATS. For examples. We have those who are of a more Religious based belief system who see the possibility of Aliens not as another species that may or may not be benevolent but rather evil demons. Then we have many who look upon the Catholic Church as being the source of all evil not to mention those in the crowd who see Islam as being the greatest evil conversely some from the Islamic world see the West as being unholy and filled with infidels. .

Then of course we have threads about Police brutality and see LEOs as abusive and unethical followed closely by those who see the military as a bunch of uneducated lower class who joined for lack of real employment opportunity etc. While we're at let's not forget the ever popular Political elites and the liberals vs conservatives and all the mud slinging going on there.

Jews, Muslims, Christians, Bankers, Wealthy individuals, LEOs, Politicians, Servicemen, Royalty, The Clergy, Rabbis, Priests, Preachers, Ayatollahs, Caliphs, Imams, Mullahs, Lawyers, Judges, Doctors, Scientists, Historians, The US, Israel, The Russians, The Chinese, The Arabs, The Iranians, The North Koreans and my cousin Vinny

ALL BAD!

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Well bad depending on ones point of view.

What do they and others [still to be mentioned] all have in common? They are all perceived as being in someway, shape or form "Authority Figures" So basically many here have issues with Authority Figures if not yours then the other guys Authority Figures and what they teach and believe. Let's be honest here, What real power if any at all do they have over us? The only power and authority they have is what we freely give them. So, let's just gather them all up and throw them in a giant meat grinder and be done with them.

Now what?
What do you propose we replace them with and how will society function?

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AND please, don't think for a second that the way you view or perceive the world or what faith based system [Or Not] that you choose to believe in is the "Perfect Solution" because I'll guarantee you that if others of another way of looking at things or conflicting beliefs look into the history of such beliefs or faith they'll find something horrendously WRONG, IMMORAL, UNETHICAL or just straight out BAD or EVIL etc in their opinion of course.

I'd like to see some realistic fact based suggestions. Not a bunch of Sunshine, Rainbows, Unicorns and a world where the air doesn't move all based on unrealistic philosophical Horse dung.

its quite simple really, firstly, you don't replace anything, you just allow people to be able to live their lives freely and go back to farming communities, getting rid of mass production at least in your community and reducing the utter crazyness of life back down to a manageable level.

as for morals, forget about it, its not going to work or happen. which is pretty much why if and when ww3 happens the above is somewhat of the plan when it comes to the safety of my family and friends. tptb will do whatever and probably not struggle to do so, so the key is to just ignore them and go native, with cannon, else everyone could be stuck in some foul place and 1984 would become a reality, and at that point you might as well shoot me in the face, if you don't get why read the book.

my opinions here, if you wanted a realistic look at things there it is, I don't care about the world as a whole and nor does anyone else, so leave the morals in the bag for the brains to poke at while they try to solve the problem with money.

ed: I don't mean that in a harsh way, but what can we really do for eachother in such a situation, when half of the people would be going crazy or looting. my plan includes neither of those.

TPTB are an evil select few the rest are low level cheer leaders afraid of not being invited to the party any more and probably fear losing their life or families lives if they ever came out against TPTB.

I would hang these individuals and leave them at a high point on a hill from a tree for all to see and probably leave them there for a while as a message to all those who would wage man against fellow man for own personal gain to the extent the TPTB have done to all of humanity for so long.

personally i'd put them in a dimension where time doesn't exist and tie them to a tesla coil, but they will end up wiping themselves out, along with half the planet. imo.

ed: because karma.

reply to post by SLAYER69


When I first joined I put forth a "solution" or at least attempted to, half the battle is figuring our what is "wrong" or needs to be "changed" the other half is figuring out exactly HOW to do it...

I'll plug it again (as I do when its appropriate)
Symmetrical and Natural System

This is a rough idea of how an out of the box civilization could conduct themselves in order to "do away with" the past civilizations who have run their course...

criticism is welcome!

reply to post by Old77


Interesting but that only really focuses on one "Version of TPTB" what about the other perceived versions I've outlined above?

There are almost 7 billion humans,
the global economic outlook is to produce more, grow and expand.
The planet remains roughly the same size and the resources are fewer (and being depleted, polluted, chopped down)... not to mention everything else wrong with this world.

All of this remains irrelevant, because on a micro-level (individual/families) are pitted against one-another, in a competitive world, where we fend for ourselves and don't have time to focus on other stuff.

But, realistically looking at things:
we are facing over population, more extreme weather conditions, depleting resources, a global economic melt down, more and more displeasure with government (where-ever you are) and a huge restriction of liberties, to add to that.

The way I see it is that the world is already pushing out that figurative dump that will eventually hit the fan, and that, that is what will help change things. If there is some type of serious melt-down of the system (be it economic, catastrophic or revolting), this is what could tilt things towards the better. People could arise that haven't been payed for and start system(s) that focus on co-operation, education, conscious expansion, and overall exploration of this world (a world much more complex and fascinating than our scientists want us to believe, or even allow us).

BUT, knowing these scum, they probably have a plan in case of any one of those events - and the weakened force of ours would just benefit them and give them more power

(Oh and on a personal level, I don't like or care for the other labels of religion, political views, whatever. At the end of the day, either you are for an open society where intelligence and peace rules supreme, regardless of your other views, or you just aren't)

reply to post by SLAYER69


I would like to see the U.S. go back to the way it was before
europe invaded it.People respecting the land,nature and animals.
Killing animals for food and not for sport.Growing your own food
and feeling the earth in your hands as you plant your crops.Drinking
water that is pure and clean from any river,lake or pond.
Women baking bread and cooking real food not something thrown
in a microwave.Making your own clothes and embroidering your
linens.Milking the cows,feeding the livestock and canning food from
your garden.

reply to post by SLAYER69


With all due respect, the "hate" in your headline doesn't promote your topic accordingly.

Or, perhaps that's the point.

Learn to love TPTB?

But now we're getting into rainbows, etc. ....

S/F

reply to post by Sly1one


You feel that that is the "Solution" for all?
Even though some will disagree?
How would the "Others" opposition be handled and by whom?

reply to post by BurningSpearess


It's a fair title.
I wanted people to see it and express how they feel. The only real controversy here is that I went after everybody not just a single perceived entity. If I've left out anybody's way of thinking or beliefs please, don't feel bad or forgotten

reply to post by mamabeth

I would like to see the U.S. go back to the way it was before
europe invaded it.People respecting the land,nature and animals.
Killing animals for food and not for sport.Growing your own food
and feeling the earth in your hands as you plant your crops.Drinking
water that is pure and clean from any river,lake or pond.
Women baking bread and cooking real food not something thrown
in a microwave.Making your own clothes and embroidering your
linens.Milking the cows,feeding the livestock and canning food from
your garden.

I agree with you on this. I believe I would be more in tune with my "natural/feminine" self according to the teachings of my clan elders but will never experience it *fully*.

But, in reality, I am "mixed" (ancestry-wise) and then we have to get into that tricky solution the OP has proposed.

reply to post by mamabeth


I hear you momma but even the natives fought against each other.
For various reasons.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by Sly1one

 

You feel that that is the "Solution" for all?
Even though some will disagree?
How would the "Others" opposition be handled and by whom?

-not the solution for "all" im not naive enough to think that is possible.
-Many will disagree but their disagreeance should not benefit or grant them leveredge in any form over another person and their "way of life". Disagreeing is normal behavior from which enlightening perspectives come from.
-"Other"? "Opposition"? like in terms of conquest and alternate forms of governing taking over? Hmm, good question, how do those "regimes" get power in the first place? Let alone sustain it?

reply to post by SLAYER69

It's a fair title.

I'm surprised not more are jumping on it....

I wanted people to see it and express how they feel. The only real controversy here is that I went after everybody not just a single perceived entity. If I've left out anybody's way of thinking or beliefs please, don't feel bad or forgotten

It's an attention-grabber headline. I just meant that your topic was more worthy/lovely of that
false love/hate dilemma.

For me, and this is not going to be practical; the key is empathy
Learning to walk in anothers' shoes for X amount of time.
I would first choose, as MB suggests above, to walk in the shoes of our mother.
Second, to that, I would walk in the shoes of the Queen, or the Obamas.....even for a day.
Would they reciprocate?
No.

So how do we come up with a moral system of empathy that is practical and adoptable?

I have no answers other than self.

reply to post by SLAYER69

Now what?
What do you propose we replace them with and how will society function?

I don't know. Everyone will have a different idea of what they want to see and how they believe society should be. There is never going to be a one solution fits all.

Maybe, that's how it should be...

reply to post by BurningSpearess


I've edited it a bit to reflect more of the topic.
Thanks for pointing it out earlier

I don't have a solution. I don't think ANY human has a solution to one person or a group of people lording over others by what boils down to force of arms. Even if we were to line up all of "TPTB" (whoever they are) and shoot them on worldwide TV, displaying their bodies under a banner reading "Sic Semper Tyrannis," a new crop of overseers would pop up in no time and we'd have to do it all over again.

At their core, human beings are nothing but animals. We've put laws into place to keep the chaos to a minimum, but nearly everyone is always looking out for themselves and their immediate family; any association other than blood is quickly dissolved, and even then history is replete with sons murdering their noble father for the crown due to impatience or greed.

No Slayer, I'm afraid there is no solution that would make life "fair" for everyone, at least not until Christ returns to set up His kingdom (unless everyone wants to make me Emperor of the World until He does.)

reply to post by SLAYER69
It's not so much as hatred towards TPTB. It's whomever is claiming that partcular seat at the time. There is always going to be TPTB.
Either some religious figure (middle ages)
Political figure (s)
Business figure (s)
*Pick your poison*

We're a pack animal. There are always going to be alphas and betas. TPTB is our name for the alphas. We may not like them, we will try to usurpt them, only to replace "them" with TPTB that we want/like.

But guess what?

Others won't like "them". And they will try to unseat "them" so they can have TPTB that they want.

ad nauseum.

Forgive my little rant, but this'll be a thread to keep an eye on. It'll be very telling as to what someone would replace TPTB with.

S&F Sir, Slayer. Brilliant thought.

Originally posted by OldCorp
At their core, human beings are nothing but animals. We've put laws into place to keep the chaos to a minimum, but nearly everyone is always looking out for themselves and their immediate family; any association other than blood is quickly dissolved, and even then history is replete with sons murdering their noble father for the crown due to impatience or greed.

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I wonder how well hammurabi's code would work or apply themselves in our supposedly "Modern" World?