"...Europe has become a gateway for Islam."

reply to post by TheUniverse


Wake up mate,we aren't one race and what do you expect us to do when Muslims are coming over in large numbers and claming that they will take over? its not just something where we say ''oh its the Muslim's fault'' and we don't pull these ideas out of our backsides.

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Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by Bixxi3

 

same thing with America and Mexico. What really makes it worse is when these people believe we legal citizens should conform to their culture.

This isn't meant sarcastically: But isn't that exactly what America did in the first 200 years of its existence?

This is just the way history goes - and the numbers are just against those who perceive themselves to be white. I myself am White and don't think that there is such a thing as a "White Culture" and therefore I don't feel threatened by the (very small and very well-behaved) muslim minority who are my neighbors, colleagues and friends in everyday life. I don't think Western Europe has much to fear in those regards. But I do think that this whole "Sharia Scare" is a very succesful political scam and I must say that I vehemently distrust the people that are pushing this, altough most of them are just being "good Germans" and don't know better.

Personally, I have never heard of an Islamist threat around here (I live in Central Europe, but have an American background) that wasn't adequatly dealt with by the rule of law. Certainly there's quite a nasty strain of Islam that is mildly popular with the young-do-no-gooders but then there's plenty of those things going on outside of Islam, all of which can be dealt with within current laws without the least of problems.

Cui bono from scapegoating a minority, historically? The answer is pretty obvious: Those who have a vested (read financial) interested in keeping the status quo. In other terms: The powers that be.
The one thing that I have sworn myself while studying history was that once the inevitable will come - the rise of a new European Fascist Movement that defines itself on exlcusivist and eliminationist terms, I will not go down as a "good German" in the history books. I'll take my stand in 1933, not 1945, so to speak.

So yes, there are crazy Islamists within Western Europe. But there are also crazy fascists horny to hype the threat that the Ultra-Islamists pose in order to get a second chance to srcew the # out of everyone again. I've got no sympathy for both of them. But I'm convinced that only one of those groups poses a real threat to European Democracy, and that threat does not consist of exotic fabrics and fancy clerical buildings.

reply to post by kristobal


Its people like you that are the problem! this guy killed because of the matter here so keep up or back to your little world of ''can't be a racist and immigration,no matter how destructable to nations system and the people,should continue because we can't be racist....can't be racist....can't be racist''.

reply to post by Zamini


Please add something that is relevant to this discussion instead of only posting troll comments. If you want to troll then I would suggest youtube otherwise, try to add something a bit more intelligent if you can.

Originally posted by DSSONE
Why is it impossible to have a thread here about immigration without the 'xenophobic/racist' line being used?

I'd really appreciate a serious discussion about the effects of immigration in and across Europe, without fear of being labelled a right wing nutjob, but I fear it's beyond the membership here.

Regrettably, I have to say the issue of immigration across and into Europe is a matter that only people in the European economic area should discuss. It is a situation that has developed over many decades and I'm afraid to say that a US or a Canadian citizen (for example) simply cannot fully understand the impact that opening the borders across 27 sovereign nations has had.

I appreciate that most members outside Europe usually have good intentions, but the situation is one that they have never experienced.

edit on 25/7/2011 by DSSONE because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/2011 by DSSONE because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/2011 by DSSONE because: (no reason given)

I know I can understand either. I'm sure there was nothing racist in my posts. But people who live 1000s of miles no better right?
And I've lived in Europe for my whole life up till a few years ago where I moved to the USA

reply to post by anon102


Mass-immigration is what most of the people I've spoken to in Norway are against. A steady, slow stream of immigration I believe would work so much better.

Let's look at it this way:

In Norway, the immigrants come in so fast, that we don't get the chance to integrate them into society. (Not that Norway has been any good at integration from before.) So they end up in "little" groups where they hang out with people from their country, rent from people from their country and shop their food from people from their country having no need (and often no desire) to become a part of the Norwegian society. I've spoken to an alarming rate of immigrants who have lived in Norway for several years (sometimes as long as 15 years) who can't speak A WORD of Norwegian and at times, very few or no English at all.

But if we allow a smaller flow, we can counter them as they come into and easily process them and help them integrate into society, causing a lot less problems all around.

Originally posted by jaamaan
reply to post by Fromabove

 

No problem
Yes there is a political party here in the netherlands that wants to stop the "Islamic invasion" as you call it.
It is called the PVV, translates as: party of freedom and it is run by geert wilders, you might have heard of hm before.
Anders Behring Breivik is a big fan of him he stated in his manifesto.

Maybe have a read in the manifesto of this "party of freedom", most of it consists of things they want to forbid.
www.pvv.nl maybe translate with google

yes, I did hear of him and the party. I'm waiting to see what becomes of it because I believe that the Netherlands was and probably still is the most tolerant of the nations of Europe. At the very least they did as much as could be done to have an open and free society. I will look up the site you sent in the message. Thanks.

Originally posted by Cantmakedisup
Once upon a time there was a world were the U.S. didn't exist. Instead, there were many tribes that lived off of the land and in harmony with nature. Sure, those tribes didn't get along peacefully all of the time, and even went to war with one another over discrepancies. But this was THEIR land. And then the white man came here. They came with guns. They came with religion. And over the next 200 years systematically destroyed the Native, population. Before europeans came to America, the Hopi population was over 60 million strong, today there are less than 800,000 of them. We infected these peace loving people with small pox and forced them to leave their land. We corralled them onto "reservations" and watched their populations dwindle. Christians did this, not Muslims.

Christians have been the most violent and destructive force our planet has ever seen. NOT MUSLIMS. All of us who live in the U.S. descend directly from immigrants. Immigration is what made (keyword there being MADE(past tense)) this "melting pot" of a country so great. It introduces us to other world views and expands our comprehension of the world.

Now we live in a society that closes its' doors to people who truly need our help. The OP is so far from reality that it's scary. If we continue to ignore the mistakes of the past, we will be doomed to repeat them in the future.

Once upon a time when man did not respect diverse cultures, they did what seemed right to themselves. The rule was "to the victor goes the spoils or war". And war it was. It wasn't like the natives simply gave up and were oppressed, no, they fought as any people would, but they lost. However, this wrong was recognized by the people that conquered them. Today, by and large their is a deep seated respect and admiration for the native American that no foreigner can understand. This was our doing and so now it our burden to bear and we recognize this. We here in this land have changed for the most part and consider the American native as much as part of this land as we ourselves now lay claim to it as our home.

This is not like the Islam invasion. They will wipe out your history and replace it with their own. They will force you to convert or die. They take your daughters by force at will seeing they are fair and good for sex as the infidels they are. They will greatly oppress your men and force upon them heavy burdens should they refuse to convert until they do. Some will be killed, tortured according to the dictates of the Quran. No other religion or belief will be tolerated and any dissent will be dealt a death blow. Women will become like cattle, treated like animals and sex saves, forced to wear a full body covering, humiliated for their beauty and independence. In the end they will erase your history and heritage. This is what they will do to all they conquer. They will have no pity for they believe their god will smile upon their cruelty.

Originally posted by Fromabove
This is not like the Islam invasion. They will wipe out your history and replace it with their own. They will force you to convert or die. They take your daughters by force at will seeing they are fair and good for sex as the infidels they are. They will greatly oppress your men and force upon them heavy burdens should they refuse to convert until they do. Some will be killed, tortured according to the dictates of the Quran. No other religion or belief will be tolerated and any dissent will be dealt a death blow. Women will become like cattle, treated like animals and sex saves, forced to wear a full body covering, humiliated for their beauty and independence. In the end they will erase your history and heritage. This is what they will do to all they conquer. They will have no pity for they believe their god will smile upon their cruelty.

I am sorry but you sound a bit like nostradamus or something here.
How do you know these things will happen ?

reply to post by RRokkyy


(With regard to immigrants seeking to rule over Europe)

Of course that is exactly what they want.
They have been keeping you in the dark
like a mushroom.

No one is keeping me in the dark. Thank you for your concern.

On to your post, I'd like to point out that immigrants to Europe do not hold any major adminstrative power over the European people. In other words, Europe is NOT a colony of African/Arab/etc states.... in the way, several Africans/Arabs/Asian states were colonies of Europe a few generations ago.

Now how about you reply to the rest of my post....

What about Europes history of colonizing and subjugation of cultures in Africa, Asia and South America? Which also led to spread of Christianity? I mean, if Europeans were ok with colonizing other lands, why is there a problem when these same people move to Europe and try and live there?

Also, please refer to my post on page 2 of this thread...which addresses the issue of Islamic immigration to European countries...

here are some excerpts...from that post...

But, Europes history of colonization does raise the question as to whether Europeans, descendants of the colonists, have a moral right to oppose immigration of people.... from the same continents they once colonized for their resources.

Or is it going to be "it was fine for us to colonize your countries back then because it was all different, but now, we dont want you coming into our cities"?

Thanks.

Originally posted by TheUniverse
reply to post by Bixxi3

 

But its not the case. There is very good evidence showing that these weak immigration polices have a very negative effect on a nations productivity. It becomes a vicious cycle where the more illegal immigrants there are the worst of a country gets. Unemployment goes up. Social welfare programs for that nation suffer and can't provide for the people is was meant for.There kids go to our schools but don't pay taxes or are just on the dole.They lower the wages for low skilled jobs. In the majority of country s illegal immigrants have the highest birth rates.

Have you ever heard of Canada. Our Immigration has been quite successful

Maybe the Muslims have different views when they move to the Europe because of their Religion. Yes that is True.

And Conflicts will Emerge with the disparity. As we are seeing Tension in Europe Because of this.

Most Muslims aren't Radical though and most Christians aren't Either

There is a general Hypocrisy about all of this because you are saying Muslims are detrimental to society
When the fact is they aren't

Just more Islamophobia BS

We are one Race the Human Race

edit on 24-7-2011 by TheUniverse because: (no reason given)

Thats sounds great.
But there is one thing, it dosnt work that way.

Originally posted by jaamaan

Originally posted by Fromabove
This is not like the Islam invasion. They will wipe out your history and replace it with their own. They will force you to convert or die. They take your daughters by force at will seeing they are fair and good for sex as the infidels they are. They will greatly oppress your men and force upon them heavy burdens should they refuse to convert until they do. Some will be killed, tortured according to the dictates of the Quran. No other religion or belief will be tolerated and any dissent will be dealt a death blow. Women will become like cattle, treated like animals and sex saves, forced to wear a full body covering, humiliated for their beauty and independence. In the end they will erase your history and heritage. This is what they will do to all they conquer. They will have no pity for they believe their god will smile upon their cruelty.

I am sorry but you sound a bit like nostradamus or something here.
How do you know these things will happen ?

First let me thank you for not just repudiating me as it were. The reason why I have found from doing research into the societies in which Islam has conquered. The end result is usually mass conversion or death. This is the historical record and can be easily researched. Additionally, the Quran dictates the manner and ways a society is to be treated and conquered. Under the system of Abrogation, the later more punitive dictates of the Quran take precedence. The system works like this. If you cannot wage war against an enemy nation, befriend them and live among them. Increase in numbers sufficient and when you have strength subdue them by any means. The whole life and way of Islam is to further the cause and religion of Islam worldwide. Presently Europe is being populated and those coming are having as many children as they can produce. Twice the number the native population is having. A good read of the Quran will tell you what you need to know. In their religion there is no room for dissent of belief, no private interpretation. Only what is written down.

I would suggest a research on the city of Constantinople and what happened there. Also the prior invasion of Islam into Europe in the earlier centuries. It hasn't changed since that time. For them, there is but only one way.

reply to post by Fromabove


Islam history and the Quran itself is not fully representative of how most muslims live at the moment.
In the old day's there where more cultures and religions that wiped out non believers and tried to conquer and convert other countries.
To say it in a short way, witch burning and the spanish inquisition are over, they are a thing of the past.
So are most things you are refering to about the islam.

reply to post by jaamaan


Ha - you say that with I suspect, with the blithe assurance of one who is completely ignorant of how Islam is construed as, 'the complete and perfect truth for all time' - 'the direct and immutable word of Allah'

Those little darlings on the streets of Egypt's 'Arab sping' - still wanted by, 80% stoning for adultery and death for apostasy in recent polls.

Fact is whatever moderate elements there are in the Moslem world keep their heads below the parapets- because scripturally they do not have a leg to stand on!

reply to post by JohhnyBGood


So how about the muslims in indonesia, a country with one of worlds largest muslim populations, do they stone people there ?
See my point?
Only a small fraction of muslims is extremist, like it is with most religions.

reply to post by jaamaan


So when polls show 80% of Egyptians want stoning for adultery and death for apostasy - you know whilst protesting for 'democracy' - how do you equate that with most of them = 'moderate'

Indonesia is a special case the Muslims do not have complete control yet.

Originally posted by JohhnyBGood
reply to post by jaamaan

 

So when polls show 80% of Egyptians want stoning for adultery and death for apostasy - you know whilst protesting for 'democracy' - how do you equate that with most of them = 'moderate'

Indonesia is a special case the Muslims do not have complete control yet.

Well i would like to see the source of that poll.

reply to post by jaamaan


I don't think he is talking about extremists, but true followers of the Islam Law. Islam Law has already made its way into America as I am sure everyone here has already heard?

I live in Greece and among other problems,we have the problem of illegal immigrants.The country as it is right now cannot sustain the locals and everyday we have hundreds of immigrants from the middle east countries and from Africa trying to cross the borders from land and sea.

The center of Athens has turned into a huge ghetto,where is dangerous to walk even at day time.Drugs,prostitution,gang fights you name it.Most of the greeks have moved from the center to "safer" locations and those who stayed are struggling everyday.

This happened for 2 reasons.
a)They came here to find jobs and for a better life,but the political and economical situation doesn't allow them to find a legitimate job,so they turn to crime.
b)In order to pay the slavers they do whatever they told them to a.k.a sell drugs or become whores.

And because i work in the center of athens i see these things everyday.I don't care if they are muslims or martians.They do harm to the country and the people.Yes and there are extreme voices here that they are taking advantage of the whole situation.

And if you hear them(the immigrants) talking about their "plans" ,you will hear racism and hatred.But from their side these words don't apply.Right?The racists are just the white people.

If any of you want to hear stories that happened to me personally,i'll be glad to share.

Yes i want them out of my country.You can go on now and call me a racist,a fascist and a Nazi.I don't care,i have to deal with this situation on daily basis,not you.