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Originally posted by Bixxi3
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Bixxi3
The attack on Norway wasn't a attack on Muslims, it was a attack on the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants.
so how many of "the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants" were killed in Norway?
How many of the children killed in the camp stood for "destroying their home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants"?
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the kids who were killed DID NOT have politics/immigration issues on their minds at the summer camp before the gun man killed them.
They were at a left party youth camp. I don't know why the killer decided to make his point by killing the children of the people he had problems with. thiat isn't what this thread is about.
Anyway, moving on to the issue of muslim immigration to Europe, I'd like someone to educate me on what the huge fuss is over muslim immigration to Europe is.
Is it a racial thing? Are you against the notion of people of a different color/religon/race sharing your city? Would you be ok if the immigrants were from, say, Australia, Scotland or Canada?
Did you read anything in this thread?Its about Illegal immigrants and the problems they cause/are causing. I've stated that people just use religion as another way to stir up hate towards these immigrants.I've never said i have a problem with people with a different skin color or people who believe in a god.
What about Europes history of colonizing and subjugation of cultures in Africa, Asia and South America? Which also led to spread of Christianity? I mean, if Europeans were ok with colonizing other lands, why is there a problem when these same people move to Europe and try and live there?
This is something i have trouble on. Because i was not around those 100s of years ago when rome or britain started there colonizations of other countrys. So i don't have first hand evidence on what it was like back then.
I do know they brought just as many positives and they did negatives. Like roads and a legal system. That was back when we as a race where still trying to get the hang of things. People really thought the royal family's of Europe where actually doing gods work. Were in a different time now and i don't think going back that far in time is relevant to todays issue of illegal immigration
I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.
I never said they did, and again not really relevant.
Originally posted by Zamini
There is very good evidence showing that these weak immigration polices have a very negative effect on a nations productivity.
Bull#. Show the evidence.
It becomes a vicious cycle where the more illegal immigrants there are the worst of a country gets.
That's bull#. More businesses owned by former immigrants than Dutch people and these businesses pay taxes.
Unemployment goes up.
Bull#. That's not because immigrants showed up that's because the owner of a farm/factory can earn more money.
Social welfare programs for that nation suffer and can't provide for the people is was meant for.
Bull#. I think if that is the case then your nation is not spending its money wisely. Can't blame it on immigrants when your political leaders are religious nut jobs or are caught up in a media blitz.
There kids go to our schools but don't pay taxes or are just on the dole.
Again, Bull#. Everybody pays taxes. Are you that ignorant or just that xenophobic?
They lower the wages for low skilled jobs.
I see...so the immigrants are lowering the wages and not the employers. That's bull#.
In the majority of country s illegal immigrants have the highest birth rates.
SO? Are you afraid of babies with black hair and brown eyes? So foolish of you to say these things..
People are mad and the worse it get the more mad people get. When that happen they look for someone to blame and they will also look for someone to lead them out of the mess there elected officials put them in. And we all know what happens next.
Yes, fearful(xenophobic) and ignorant people like YOURSELF will vote for these "officials" because you are too dumb to figure them out.
Why did you start a thread saying Islam and then rant about immigrants? Someone should check you out might you feel like hurting people...:/edit on 25-7-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Bixxi3
The thing is multiculturalism isn't working.
Bull#.
Are you going to continue riddling your own thread with non-sense and extreme right wing ideologies? You cannot state an OPINION for fact. Take your head out of your behind please, before you go nutters like other right wingers.
Originally posted by fooks
Originally posted by Bixxi3
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Bixxi3
The attack on Norway wasn't a attack on Muslims, it was a attack on the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants.
so how many of "the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants" were killed in Norway?
How many of the children killed in the camp stood for "destroying their home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants"?
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the kids who were killed DID NOT have politics/immigration issues on their minds at the summer camp before the gun man killed them.
They were at a left party youth camp. I don't know why the killer decided to make his point by killing the children of the people he had problems with. thiat isn't what this thread is about.
Anyway, moving on to the issue of muslim immigration to Europe, I'd like someone to educate me on what the huge fuss is over muslim immigration to Europe is.
Is it a racial thing? Are you against the notion of people of a different color/religon/race sharing your city? Would you be ok if the immigrants were from, say, Australia, Scotland or Canada?
Did you read anything in this thread?Its about Illegal immigrants and the problems they cause/are causing. I've stated that people just use religion as another way to stir up hate towards these immigrants.I've never said i have a problem with people with a different skin color or people who believe in a god.
What about Europes history of colonizing and subjugation of cultures in Africa, Asia and South America? Which also led to spread of Christianity? I mean, if Europeans were ok with colonizing other lands, why is there a problem when these same people move to Europe and try and live there?
This is something i have trouble on. Because i was not around those 100s of years ago when rome or britain started there colonizations of other countrys. So i don't have first hand evidence on what it was like back then.
I do know they brought just as many positives and they did negatives. Like roads and a legal system. That was back when we as a race where still trying to get the hang of things. People really thought the royal family's of Europe where actually doing gods work. Were in a different time now and i don't think going back that far in time is relevant to todays issue of illegal immigration
I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.
I never said they did, and again not really relevant.
"back then" you complied or died and rome and greece did a great job.
roads and whatever went on.
no one asked you your opinion.
lol!
like today's problems with the opposite responses from the powers that be.
eta; now it's "oooooohh" sorry! didn't mean to mess up YOUR life in MY country!!!
bring back the bronze age.
edit on 25-7-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)
No. Go take economy classes and observe; the white people like you do not WANT those jobs. You can scream all you want that you do, but in reality you do not. So stop pretending.
Furthermore, in this world that is moving towards globalization(which nobody can stop mind you, not even white european americans with god complexes), if there is no source of cheap labor in one's own country, businesses move to the next best thing: Outsourcing.
And here you are blaming a completely natural and well documented effect of capitalism on illegal immigrants? Go put a sock in it before you drive yourself insane and start shooting up places.
Pardon me, you ignorant fool, you ask what puts a bigger strain on a system? Is that health care which every human deserves, legal, illegal, purple or green - the point of the system in the first place. Or is that the military? Hmmm...good question huh?
Just to abuse your erroneous viewpoint on economics and irrational fear of foreigners(illegal immigrant hate is covered up xenophobia).
The situation back then was completely different to now. it just isn't relevant.
So thats why unemployment among immigrants in Netherlands is more than double that of natives?
Unemployment among immigrants to the Netherlands has risen despite higher education levels and better integration.
There needs to be balance between supply and demand of cheap labour. There is no question about immigrants pushing this balance towards lower wages for every cheap labourer. This is an economic fact. Whether this serves to get closer to the ideal ratio of supply and demand of cheap labour is another thing, tough, and I believe this may overall be the case for some countries.
If you would understood economics
you would know that his concerns do have merit. Immigrants lower the wages of natives in their respective profession, period. The question is, whether it serves to increase overal GDP per capita, and thus is beneficial for economy as a whole or not.
So one strain on system justifies another strain on system? Great logic there..
Not when there are other valid reasons. Stop with the strawmans.
1st underlined: Unemployment; meaning people need to be hired. I already said discrimination is a huge factor in the Netherlands when it comes to getting full time job contracts. Second underlined, do you see that? Higher education levels. They won't say how high though(I like the fact that education level amongst Iranian immigrants is even higher than the natives education levels) or why these people are not being employed(racism and discrimination).
Besides, where are your numbers for entrepreneurs? Start ups? Well? How about the relative numbers? The actual numbers mind you, that tell a tale of how the native population is falling behind on successful businesses compared to former immigrants? You also have to take into account that those numbers do not portray any black work, meaning, no taxes paid. The numbers would look a whole lot different
Riddle me this: If there is no cheap labor in your nation, do you or do you not outsource? Answer, of course you outsource, how else will you compete?
His concerns do not have merit because his concerns are based on xenophobic ideological viewpoints.
Yes exactly illegal immigrants come over take the low skilled jobs that would other wise go to legal citizens.businesses realize they can take advantage of this and pay them less making wages go down for the rest of the working class.
How hard is it to understand that if illegal immigrants who don't pay income tax(they get pay cash for theere work so there no paper trail.) or local taxes(council taxes/ state taxes). and they use free health care which is payed for by those taxes put more of a strain on a system?
No. A social government is there to care for the PEOPLE. A hundred million+ euro prototype fighter jet is going to do # all for anyone except for those making the plane, really.
Racism or not, it proves that your claims about lazy natives and hard-working immigrants are baseless. I fact, I expected to see lower unemployment among immigrants than natives myself, they come to follow work, after all
I am sure those are included. These people are not counted among unemployed.
As for black work, that is an unknown factor, but I wouldnt consider it positive.
if there is no cheap labour and there id a demand, then immigration of cheap labour is a positive influence. This may be the case, indeed, but the issue is not black and white, and the optimal level and composition of immigration is important, too. Some links:
These are economical arguments, not ideological.
That does not change the fact that it is a strain on the system (tax evasions, higher unemployment among immigrants, higher crime rates etc). Social government is there to care for citizens of the country, not for all people.
Originally posted by anon102
If multiculturalism isn't the answer then what is? Isolation, segregation? I'm one of the naive many that views multiculturalism in a favorable light, but even I agree there are problems to it.
But damnit man, if no one can find a way for everyone to live and let live then we're already doomed to another war, genocide, or worse.
Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.
Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by Bixxi3
same thing with America and Mexico. What really makes it worse is when these people believe we legal citizens should conform to their culture. Then they brag about being here illegally, they dont hold allegiance to our country and they drive the work wages down. We all know they are free loading off our taxes with government programs for housing, welfare, schooling,healthcare. And when you tell people this they call you racist.
I live in California i have seen Mexican markets all saying they take WIC/food stamps and its in Spanish, I have been to section 8 housing flooded with only illegal Mexican families, I have been to hospitals where they allow the first 50 people to come in and get government assistants with medical bills aka the government pays 90% percent of their bill. I watched in horror as they all didn't speak English and began to sell their places in line cause only the first 50 get in that day. I went to a school where they had to build 2 portable classrooms for esl classes
. I have seen American businesses require people to speak Spanish to get the job and when i walked into the business it had only Hispanic people working there and when i talked to someone they spoke very broken English. I figure requiring people to know how to speak Spanish to get a job is their way of being able to only hire people of hispanic origin which is illegal in our country.
A lot of the kids from the section 8 housing are in gangs. And if you live next to one of these places they blast mariachi music all day long starting from 6 in the morning to 11 at night. Their celebrities mock white people and laugh about taking the country over through attrition they truly believe they are better then us American citizens who fund there failure children all the way till their kids get old enough to go to jail then we pay even more to keep them there.
Then after years of this there are to many illegals to stop from totally screwing up the political system and that's why we are trillions in debt because they don't get the concept or really dont care if we stupid American are going to go under just so long as we keep funding there free lifestyle. I get to watch as a single illegal mother with 8 kids drives her brand new SUV while i drive a 1991 ford explorer. I work a 40 hour work week she works part time pays like 350 dollar a month for her place"government help" i pay 1100 not including cable,gas,phone,food,ect. These people are F!@#king us bad. The politicians love it because it keeps our eyes off them and businesses fund the politicians to keep the boarders open so they can keep our wages down.
Its almost to the point where you get rewarded for being a moron. No education,12 kids,no car,no job, no problem our government will pay for you and hey while your at it become a prescription drug dealer off our government funded health care programs to make money on the side. These illegal are abusers and should be treated as economic war criminals. But because they help liberal morons get elected and sacrifice their children up to be slaughtered in any war we start because the only job their kids can get is being in the army or being in a gang.edit on 24-7-2011 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
Xenophobia is an actual disease.