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"...Europe has become a gateway for Islam."

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posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 03:30 AM
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Originally posted by Bixxi3

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Bixxi3
 




The attack on Norway wasn't a attack on Muslims, it was a attack on the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants.


so how many of "the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants" were killed in Norway?
How many of the children killed in the camp stood for "destroying their home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants"?
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the kids who were killed DID NOT have politics/immigration issues on their minds at the summer camp before the gun man killed them.

They were at a left party youth camp. I don't know why the killer decided to make his point by killing the children of the people he had problems with. thiat isn't what this thread is about.


Anyway, moving on to the issue of muslim immigration to Europe, I'd like someone to educate me on what the huge fuss is over muslim immigration to Europe is.
Is it a racial thing? Are you against the notion of people of a different color/religon/race sharing your city? Would you be ok if the immigrants were from, say, Australia, Scotland or Canada?

Did you read anything in this thread?Its about Illegal immigrants and the problems they cause/are causing. I've stated that people just use religion as another way to stir up hate towards these immigrants.I've never said i have a problem with people with a different skin color or people who believe in a god.


What about Europes history of colonizing and subjugation of cultures in Africa, Asia and South America? Which also led to spread of Christianity? I mean, if Europeans were ok with colonizing other lands, why is there a problem when these same people move to Europe and try and live there?

This is something i have trouble on. Because i was not around those 100s of years ago when rome or britain started there colonizations of other countrys. So i don't have first hand evidence on what it was like back then.
I do know they brought just as many positives and they did negatives. Like roads and a legal system. That was back when we as a race where still trying to get the hang of things. People really thought the royal family's of Europe where actually doing gods work. Were in a different time now and i don't think going back that far in time is relevant to todays issue of illegal immigration


I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.

I never said they did, and again not really relevant.


"back then" you complied or died and rome and greece did a great job.

roads and whatever went on.

no one asked you your opinion.
lol!

like today's problems with the opposite responses from the powers that be.


eta; now it's "oooooohh" sorry! didn't mean to mess up YOUR life in MY country!!!

bring back the bronze age.



edit on 25-7-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 03:37 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini



There is very good evidence showing that these weak immigration polices have a very negative effect on a nations productivity.



Bull#. Show the evidence.

Re read my OP, thanks.(and maybe do your own research before swearing to make a point?)

It becomes a vicious cycle where the more illegal immigrants there are the worst of a country gets.



That's bull#. More businesses owned by former immigrants than Dutch people and these businesses pay taxes.

Legal immigrants starting a business and contributing well thats great. when did i say i have a problem with that?(again with the bull#?)

Unemployment goes up.



Bull#. That's not because immigrants showed up that's because the owner of a farm/factory can earn more money.

Yes exactly illegal immigrants come over take the low skilled jobs that would other wise go to legal citizens.businesses realize they can take advantage of this and pay them less making wages go down for the rest of the working class.


Social welfare programs for that nation suffer and can't provide for the people is was meant for.




Bull#. I think if that is the case then your nation is not spending its money wisely. Can't blame it on immigrants when your political leaders are religious nut jobs or are caught up in a media blitz.

How hard is it to understand that if illegal immigrants who don't pay income tax(they get pay cash for theere work so there no paper trail.) or local taxes(council taxes/ state taxes). and they use free health care which is payed for by those taxes put more of a strain on a system?

There kids go to our schools but don't pay taxes or are just on the dole.



Again, Bull#. Everybody pays taxes. Are you that ignorant or just that xenophobic?



They lower the wages for low skilled jobs.



I see...so the immigrants are lowering the wages and not the employers. That's bull#.

cause and effect...

In the majority of country s illegal immigrants have the highest birth rates.




SO? Are you afraid of babies with black hair and brown eyes? So foolish of you to say these things..

Clearly your the one that is foolish. If that is what you got from my point.


People are mad and the worse it get the more mad people get. When that happen they look for someone to blame and they will also look for someone to lead them out of the mess there elected officials put them in. And we all know what happens next.



Yes, fearful(xenophobic) and ignorant people like YOURSELF will vote for these "officials" because you are too dumb to figure them out.

Why did you start a thread saying Islam and then rant about immigrants? Someone should check you out might you feel like hurting people...:/
edit on 25-7-2011 by Zamini because: (no reason given)


i think you missed the point but its ok its hard to think with your head up your arse.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 03:46 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by Bixxi3
 



The thing is multiculturalism isn't working.


Bull#.

Are you going to continue riddling your own thread with non-sense and extreme right wing ideologies? You cannot state an OPINION for fact. Take your head out of your behind please, before you go nutters like other right wingers.


I posted evidence. quite a few leaders of European country's have come out and said its not working.But not you can't do research or read properly.
State multiculturalism has failed, says David Cameron

Angela Merkel: German multiculturalism has 'utterly failed'
Chancellor's assertion that onus is on new arrivals to do more to integrate into German society stirs anti-immigration debate



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by fooks

Originally posted by Bixxi3

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by Bixxi3
 




The attack on Norway wasn't a attack on Muslims, it was a attack on the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants.


so how many of "the people who are for destroying there home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants" were killed in Norway?
How many of the children killed in the camp stood for "destroying their home nations culture in favor of appeasing immigrants"?
I could be wrong, but I have a feeling the kids who were killed DID NOT have politics/immigration issues on their minds at the summer camp before the gun man killed them.

They were at a left party youth camp. I don't know why the killer decided to make his point by killing the children of the people he had problems with. thiat isn't what this thread is about.


Anyway, moving on to the issue of muslim immigration to Europe, I'd like someone to educate me on what the huge fuss is over muslim immigration to Europe is.
Is it a racial thing? Are you against the notion of people of a different color/religon/race sharing your city? Would you be ok if the immigrants were from, say, Australia, Scotland or Canada?

Did you read anything in this thread?Its about Illegal immigrants and the problems they cause/are causing. I've stated that people just use religion as another way to stir up hate towards these immigrants.I've never said i have a problem with people with a different skin color or people who believe in a god.


What about Europes history of colonizing and subjugation of cultures in Africa, Asia and South America? Which also led to spread of Christianity? I mean, if Europeans were ok with colonizing other lands, why is there a problem when these same people move to Europe and try and live there?

This is something i have trouble on. Because i was not around those 100s of years ago when rome or britain started there colonizations of other countrys. So i don't have first hand evidence on what it was like back then.
I do know they brought just as many positives and they did negatives. Like roads and a legal system. That was back when we as a race where still trying to get the hang of things. People really thought the royal family's of Europe where actually doing gods work. Were in a different time now and i don't think going back that far in time is relevant to todays issue of illegal immigration


I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.

I never said they did, and again not really relevant.


"back then" you complied or died and rome and greece did a great job.

roads and whatever went on.

no one asked you your opinion.
lol!

like today's problems with the opposite responses from the powers that be.


eta; now it's "oooooohh" sorry! didn't mean to mess up YOUR life in MY country!!!

bring back the bronze age.



edit on 25-7-2011 by fooks because: (no reason given)


The situation back then was completely different to now. it just isn't relevant.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 04:00 AM
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84 people have been murdered and you use this as an opportunity to air your own prejudices about illegal immigration? At best it is tasteless opportunism. At worst your ranting against illegal immigrants borders on hate speech.

you try to justify it by writing "I'm not hating on islam, but...."

These views are repugnant no matter how you try to dress them up in weasel words.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 04:24 AM
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Each Country has his own Problem with Immigration,
The US, the UK, Europe and some parts of Asia, all are different!

The Problem in Europe with the Islamic People
is different from the Problem in China, Vietnam or better Tibet
where the Han-Chinese take over all form of Business!

We can avoid Immigration only by stronger Rules, Barbwire and Fences
but than we are separated and intellectual dieing like Japan 200 Years ago!
This will be impossible in our Century because of the Globalization.

No one like to leave the Place called HOME but there is a reason why People need to go,
this Problem is underrated and we need to focus on that!

I am also an Immigrant who don't assimilate with this Country,
because i don't want it!



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 04:26 AM
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posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 05:00 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 





No. Go take economy classes and observe; the white people like you do not WANT those jobs. You can scream all you want that you do, but in reality you do not. So stop pretending.


So thats why unemployment among immigrants in Netherlands is more than double that of natives?

www.rnw.nl...






Furthermore, in this world that is moving towards globalization(which nobody can stop mind you, not even white european americans with god complexes), if there is no source of cheap labor in one's own country, businesses move to the next best thing: Outsourcing.


There needs to be balance between supply and demand of cheap labour. There is no question about immigrants pushing this balance towards lower wages for every cheap labourer. This is an economic fact. Whether this serves to get closer to the ideal ratio of supply and demand of cheap labour is another thing, tough, and I believe this may overall be the case for some countries.




And here you are blaming a completely natural and well documented effect of capitalism on illegal immigrants? Go put a sock in it before you drive yourself insane and start shooting up places.


If you would understood economics, you would know that his concerns do have merit. Immigrants lower the wages of natives in their respective profession, period. The question is, whether it serves to increase overal GDP per capita, and thus is beneficial for economy as a whole or not.




Pardon me, you ignorant fool, you ask what puts a bigger strain on a system? Is that health care which every human deserves, legal, illegal, purple or green - the point of the system in the first place. Or is that the military? Hmmm...good question huh?


So one strain on system justifies another strain on system? Great logic there..





Just to abuse your erroneous viewpoint on economics and irrational fear of foreigners(illegal immigrant hate is covered up xenophobia).


Not when there are other valid reasons. Stop with the strawmans.
edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: typo



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by Bixxi3
 


(With regard to European colonization of Asia, Africa and South America)



The situation back then was completely different to now. it just isn't relevant.


Of course it was different back then.
And yes, European colonization of Asia, Africa and South America centuries ago, is not relevant to the issue of immigration right now.

But, Europes history of colonization does raise the question as to whether Europeans, descendants of the colonists, have a moral right to oppose immigration of people.... from the same continents they once colonized for their resources.

Or is it going to be "it was fine for us to colonize your countries back then because it was all different, but now, we dont want you coming into our cities"?


As for it being "different" back then, look on the bright side... immigration of non-whites into Europe will not be an issue 300 years from now, when people will probably say it was all "different" back in 2010.

This is how history unfolds itself.

edit on 25-7-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-7-2011 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 05:26 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 



So thats why unemployment among immigrants in Netherlands is more than double that of natives?


Alright Maslo, lets see how ignorant and oblivious you are to how the REAL world works shall we? Lets take a look at the first sentence of the article you posted shall we?


Unemployment among immigrants to the Netherlands has risen despite higher education levels and better integration.


1st underlined: Unemployment; meaning people need to be hired. I already said discrimination is a huge factor in the Netherlands when it comes to getting full time job contracts. Second underlined, do you see that? Higher education levels. They won't say how high though(I like the fact that education level amongst Iranian immigrants is even higher than the natives education levels) or why these people are not being employed(racism and discrimination).

Besides, where are your numbers for entrepreneurs? Start ups? Well? How about the relative numbers? The actual numbers mind you, that tell a tale of how the native population is falling behind on successful businesses compared to former immigrants? You also have to take into account that those numbers do not portray any black work, meaning, no taxes paid. The numbers would look a whole lot different



There needs to be balance between supply and demand of cheap labour. There is no question about immigrants pushing this balance towards lower wages for every cheap labourer. This is an economic fact. Whether this serves to get closer to the ideal ratio of supply and demand of cheap labour is another thing, tough, and I believe this may overall be the case for some countries.


Maybe you choose to read some parts of my post then skip other because you believe you have a smug reply to some parts. Riddle me this: If there is no cheap labor in your nation, do you or do you not outsource? Answer, of course you outsource, how else will you compete? Riddle solved. If there were no immigrants picking up jobs that natives do not like because they suffer from superiority complexes, then there would be even LESS tax revenues and even LESS money being pumped around in your own nations economy.


If you would understood economics


Excuse me while I



you would know that his concerns do have merit. Immigrants lower the wages of natives in their respective profession, period. The question is, whether it serves to increase overal GDP per capita, and thus is beneficial for economy as a whole or not.


His concerns do not have merit because his concerns are based on xenophobic ideological viewpoints. Your viewpoint is one of isolation which has been proven, time and time again, to be detrimental to an economy on the long run. That is why, over the course of time, immigrants will often close economic gaps in the new host countries. Why? Take for instance, the Netherlands. There is a problem here with the baby-boomers growing old and unable to work. Who is going to fill in this HUGE gap in employment and pay the loss in taxes? The immigrant workers and businesses because in a small amount of time they will be outperforming the natives.


So one strain on system justifies another strain on system? Great logic there..


No. A social government is there to care for the PEOPLE. A hundred million+ euro prototype fighter jet is going to do # all for anyone except for those making the plane, really.


Not when there are other valid reasons. Stop with the strawmans.


Bla bla bla, what valid reasons? Reasons cannot be valid if they are based on ignorance. The OP's whole premises is dripping with ignorance.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:06 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 





1st underlined: Unemployment; meaning people need to be hired. I already said discrimination is a huge factor in the Netherlands when it comes to getting full time job contracts. Second underlined, do you see that? Higher education levels. They won't say how high though(I like the fact that education level amongst Iranian immigrants is even higher than the natives education levels) or why these people are not being employed(racism and discrimination).


Racism or not, it proves that your claims about lazy natives and hard-working immigrants are baseless. I fact, I expected to see lower unemployment among immigrants than natives myself, they come to follow work, after all.




Besides, where are your numbers for entrepreneurs? Start ups? Well? How about the relative numbers? The actual numbers mind you, that tell a tale of how the native population is falling behind on successful businesses compared to former immigrants? You also have to take into account that those numbers do not portray any black work, meaning, no taxes paid. The numbers would look a whole lot different


I am sure those are included. These people are not counted among unemployed. As for black work, that is an unknown factor, but I wouldnt consider it positive.




Riddle me this: If there is no cheap labor in your nation, do you or do you not outsource? Answer, of course you outsource, how else will you compete?


if there is no cheap labour and there id a demand, then immigration of cheap labour is a positive influence. This may be the case, indeed, but the issue is not black and white, and the optimal level and composition of immigration is important, too. Some links:

www.immi.gov.au...
www.migrationwatchuk.org...




His concerns do not have merit because his concerns are based on xenophobic ideological viewpoints.


Nope, you just see what you want to see.


Yes exactly illegal immigrants come over take the low skilled jobs that would other wise go to legal citizens.businesses realize they can take advantage of this and pay them less making wages go down for the rest of the working class.



How hard is it to understand that if illegal immigrants who don't pay income tax(they get pay cash for theere work so there no paper trail.) or local taxes(council taxes/ state taxes). and they use free health care which is payed for by those taxes put more of a strain on a system?


These are economical arguments, not ideological or xenophobic.




No. A social government is there to care for the PEOPLE. A hundred million+ euro prototype fighter jet is going to do # all for anyone except for those making the plane, really.


That does not change the fact that it may be a strain on the system (tax evasions, higher unemployment among immigrants, higher crime rates etc). Social government is there to care for citizens of the country, not for all people that happen to drift inside.




edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

edit on 25/7/11 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:19 AM
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reply to post by Maslo
 



Racism or not, it proves that your claims about lazy natives and hard-working immigrants are baseless. I fact, I expected to see lower unemployment among immigrants than natives myself, they come to follow work, after all


Listen you racist. If you want to discuss things with me rationally you are free to do so and I will respond. If you however choose to use arguments like the underlined I will ignore you for ever.



I am sure those are included. These people are not counted among unemployed.


That's not what I'm saying. Go take a class of reading comprehension.


As for black work, that is an unknown factor, but I wouldnt consider it positive.


Who benefits the most from black work? Never mind, I won't reply to your non-sense ever again so I'll spell it out for you:

COMPANIES THAT DO NOT NEED TO PAY TAXES. SO THE COMPANIES RATHER HIRE WORKERS INTO THE BLACK MARKET TO AVOID EXTRA COSTS.



if there is no cheap labour and there id a demand, then immigration of cheap labour is a positive influence. This may be the case, indeed, but the issue is not black and white, and the optimal level and composition of immigration is important, too. Some links:


Sigh...immigration =/= only economic. When will this get through your thick skull? Read back and see how many times I've made this point yet it went completely over your head; reading comprehension.




These are economical arguments, not ideological.


It IS ideological because you are not focusing on the source but a symptom of it. If there were no immigrants the employers would only offer black work, so the state would still lose all taxes. Either that or they outsource...there is the third option of going bankrupt as well. I see you're an avid supporter of that third option.


That does not change the fact that it is a strain on the system (tax evasions, higher unemployment among immigrants, higher crime rates etc). Social government is there to care for citizens of the country, not for all people.


Of course, now you delve into speculation. Again, based on xenophobic ideologies. Enjoy wallowing in ignorance, can't be bothered to discuss things with xenophobes.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:23 AM
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Originally posted by anon102
If multiculturalism isn't the answer then what is? Isolation, segregation? I'm one of the naive many that views multiculturalism in a favorable light, but even I agree there are problems to it.

But damnit man, if no one can find a way for everyone to live and let live then we're already doomed to another war, genocide, or worse.


Not bowing down, not being afraid of Islamic pressure, not being afraid to stand up against Sharia law, not being afraid to publish sattire in the press.

They need to live and let live, understand that we welcome people from all walks of life, but that certain groups of people don't get special treatment, even if they attempt to gain it by force.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


Xenophobia is an actual disease.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:39 AM
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Woops, someone did not like that bit of info after how long?


The word fool too much?


ATS growing to be a joke huh...



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 06:42 AM
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reply to post by Zamini
 


No it's not.

Neither is racism.

And having concerns with some extreme Islamic ideology and some of the movements and political groups that support it isn't classed as "Islamaphobia."

And the "moderate" Muslims should be standing up and voicing their concerns too. Maybe they're scared, people see what happens when people refuse to submit to certain Islamic demands (Danish newspaper who published sattire of draw Muhammed)
edit on 25-7-2011 by ExistentialNightmare because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by sk0rpi0n


I mean, its not like these immigrants seek to have rule over Europe and Europeans the way the Europeans ruled over Africans, Asians and South Americans.



Of course that is exactly what they want.
They have been keeping you in the dark
like a mushroom.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 07:22 AM
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Originally posted by pcrobotwolf
reply to post by Bixxi3
 


same thing with America and Mexico. What really makes it worse is when these people believe we legal citizens should conform to their culture. Then they brag about being here illegally, they dont hold allegiance to our country and they drive the work wages down. We all know they are free loading off our taxes with government programs for housing, welfare, schooling,healthcare. And when you tell people this they call you racist.

I live in California i have seen Mexican markets all saying they take WIC/food stamps and its in Spanish, I have been to section 8 housing flooded with only illegal Mexican families, I have been to hospitals where they allow the first 50 people to come in and get government assistants with medical bills aka the government pays 90% percent of their bill. I watched in horror as they all didn't speak English and began to sell their places in line cause only the first 50 get in that day. I went to a school where they had to build 2 portable classrooms for esl classes

. I have seen American businesses require people to speak Spanish to get the job and when i walked into the business it had only Hispanic people working there and when i talked to someone they spoke very broken English. I figure requiring people to know how to speak Spanish to get a job is their way of being able to only hire people of hispanic origin which is illegal in our country.

A lot of the kids from the section 8 housing are in gangs. And if you live next to one of these places they blast mariachi music all day long starting from 6 in the morning to 11 at night. Their celebrities mock white people and laugh about taking the country over through attrition they truly believe they are better then us American citizens who fund there failure children all the way till their kids get old enough to go to jail then we pay even more to keep them there.

Then after years of this there are to many illegals to stop from totally screwing up the political system and that's why we are trillions in debt because they don't get the concept or really dont care if we stupid American are going to go under just so long as we keep funding there free lifestyle. I get to watch as a single illegal mother with 8 kids drives her brand new SUV while i drive a 1991 ford explorer. I work a 40 hour work week she works part time pays like 350 dollar a month for her place"government help" i pay 1100 not including cable,gas,phone,food,ect. These people are F!@#king us bad. The politicians love it because it keeps our eyes off them and businesses fund the politicians to keep the boarders open so they can keep our wages down.

Its almost to the point where you get rewarded for being a moron. No education,12 kids,no car,no job, no problem our government will pay for you and hey while your at it become a prescription drug dealer off our government funded health care programs to make money on the side. These illegal are abusers and should be treated as economic war criminals. But because they help liberal morons get elected and sacrifice their children up to be slaughtered in any war we start because the only job their kids can get is being in the army or being in a gang.
edit on 24-7-2011 by pcrobotwolf because: (no reason given)


Well said.
Welcome to the New World Order.



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 07:30 AM
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what do you expect, the west has bombed and forced them out of their countries..



posted on Jul, 25 2011 @ 07:39 AM
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Originally posted by Zamini
reply to post by ExistentialNightmare
 


Xenophobia is an actual disease.


Religion is a disease. Its an infection of the mind with irrational beliefs.

Excess immigration is a disease. Ask any native.

Cultural destruction is a disease.

Xenophobia is actually a cure .




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