Why am I an atheist?

Originally posted by Phantom traveller
I don't know about you but i'm an atheist because:
1)I haven't found anything to prove that there is a god.
2)I don't like the "believe in me or you will go to hell" message of love.
3)If god does exist and he created humans it's a proof that he is not perfect.
4)he is not the loving father the religions are trying to present.
5)i don't understand the need to believe that there is an invisible guy in the sky,that i must worship and do horrible things in his name,that watches me 24/7.Where is free will when you must be afraid all the time not to sin?

And finally
I consider myself smart

I could go on forever.My mother is very,very religious and we have this conversation all the time.Why am i an atheist?She is trying to persuade me to start believing.The thing is that as long as i remember myself i never believed in god.Since i was a child i didn't like the whole religion thing.So maybe there is more to this than the realisation of the "god does not exist".

Rom.1

1. [22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Actually atheists do have faith, but it rests with the scientific theory on the origin of life and it's development on our planet, look what it has done for them.

...thx for shovin' all of us into that little bitty pigeon-hole...

...i'm about as unscientific as it gets... besides, i wasnt even in school yet when i decided that all that god talk was hooey... in my nearly 60yrs of stompin' dirt, i've come to the scientifically unsupported conclusion that some folks are born with a fully functional brain and some are not...

So your answer is no evidence.

Does it matter how you get the evidence? As long as it is proven to you and you alone? What is your criteria for evidence?

Do you mind telling us about the spiritual experiences you thought you were having?

I think athiesm is a by product of being lied too.. i was an athiest after high school... i had so many questions that had no answers... asking christians for the truth was like beating your head against the wall over and over and over and over and over. .. when you strike a nerve with christians they just tell you to shut up and have faith..

then when i was 22 i had a life changing experience... i was stabbed in the neck 3 times and was declared dead 3 times at the hospital... my experience when i was in a coma changed my views completely... during that time i was living a life of hate and greed and it was a shallow life...

i couldn't come to terms with the y's... i asked god y for everything... and now i know the truth that has brought piece to my mind... i believe that being athiest is a natural response to a life of being lied too and not being able to cope with the truth when the miracle of god is everything and every where... i believe that we all have our own journey's and being an athiest is the only way for some of us to realize god before us.. does that make sense?

i believe that each athiest has to be completly disconnected from god until something so amazing happens in their lives that makes them realize god... i am not a christian i just believe in the fundamental truth. i hope each of you find the answers you seek,

Originally posted by _Highlander_
What I find disturbing in the answers of the obviously religious people in this thread, is that the word 'Evidence' is rarley mentioned in their list of what would make you or a person an Athiest.

Does evidence, and I am talking real evidence here, have no place in the mind of a thiest?

I don't want to put anyone on the spot, but I recognized a lot of the guesses to be what I can only call "pulpit talking points". The reasons they've been told that atheists are atheists.

Kind of like the reasons they've been told gay people are gay. Or how they've been told why people believe in evolution. They get told the "why" all the time, only it's a false why. A type of straw man argument to deflect from the truth.

Originally posted by 11azerus11
I think athiesm is a by product of being lied too.. i was an athiest after high school... i had so many questions that had no answers... asking christians for the truth was like beating your head against the wall over and over and over and over and over. .. when you strike a nerve with christians they just tell you to shut up and have faith..

then when i was 22 i had a life changing experience... i was stabbed in the neck 3 times and was declared dead 3 times at the hospital... my experience when i was in a coma changed my views completely... during that time i was living a life of hate and greed and it was a shallow life...

i couldn't come to terms with the y's... i asked god y for everything... and now i know the truth that has brought piece to my mind... i believe that being athiest is a natural response to a life of being lied too and not being able to cope with the truth when the miracle of god is everything and every where... i believe that we all have our own journey's and being an athiest is the only way for some of us to realize god before us.. does that make sense?

i believe that each athiest has to be completly disconnected from god until something so amazing happens in their lives that makes them realize god... i am not a christian i just believe in the fundamental truth. i hope each of you find the answers you seek,

I wouldn't be all that surprised if I ended up believing something along those lines by the end of my journey.

Now it seems that this thread has become a wretched sore of festering myths about atheists, so let me do my best to dispel them.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
1)They perceive God isn't doing anything to help humanity, so he does not exist.

Nope, this would only be related to religious conceptions of a deity, not theism as a whole.

Theism is belief in any deity, not a specific one.

2)Historical evils and hypocrisy in organized religion.

Again, no reason to not believe in a deity.
As someone once said: "Jesus! Save me from your followers!"

3)Belief in Evolution.

Nope, it doesn't change my outlook on it at all. Of course, there being natural explanations for things does help me not fall for 'god of the gaps' arguments.

4)Non-belief in the bible.

Or the Qu'ran, or the Bhagavad Gita, or all sorts of other religious texts.

And the Bible is a fairly silly book sometimes.

5)The attitude of I don't want to be accountable to a higher power (God)

I am accountable to a higher power: Society at large.
And I'm also accountable to myself.

Morality isn't something that has to do with enforcement, it's about what you'd do when nobody else is looking.
If I could rape, murder, and steal without reprimand, would I? Of course not, it would be stupid.

And here's the crazy thing, atheists seem to be less likely to commit crime, less likely to commit infidelity in marriage, less likely to get divorced, etc.

I don't care if I'm subject to a higher power, my behavior wouldn't change.

6)Witnessed atrocities.

Nope, never witnessed an actual atrocity. I've heard plenty of things about them though.

7)Apathy

Is definitely not me.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
Oh there is evidence I have studied it for decades, but faith trumps that anyway.

No, there really isn't.
And if faith trumped evidence, we'd have no reason to bother with science.

Jesus told us the true power of pure faith the size of a small seed, what it could actually accomplish.

Yes, that it could accomplish things greater than he did...like moving mountains. I've yet to see people move mountains with faith. Sure, with lots of machinery and manpower, but never faith.

Actually atheists do have faith, but it rests with the scientific theory on the origin of life and it's development on our planet, look what it has done for them.

...no, we don't have 'faith' in it, we see the actual scientific evidence for abiogenesis and evolution.

And yes, look what it's done for us, we actually know how to deal with antibiotic resistance in disease! We can do all sorts of wonderful things with evolution...but what has theism ever accomplished?

Science is like a great many things, you shouldn't knock it before you try it...except that you are currently reaping its benefits whilst demeaning it....

reply to post by Myrtales Instinct


Well, I was having one experience that I thought was demonic attack...it turns out I was simply suffering from a mild neurological issue that caused sleep paralysis. It got cleared up quickly. It also caused such events that I associated with demons such as: Waking up in random places (I was sleep walking, still do that one sometimes), having minor tactile hallucinations (sleep deprivation), and a few other things that I cannot remember now.

As for the positive experiences I thought I was having, I thought a feeling of euphoria I used to get while reading the Bible was from God...it turns out the feeling was just something I got while reading, I just never noticed it.

I thought my depression was caused by my sin, turns out I have clinical depression.

Etc.

Originally posted by Phantom traveller
5)i don't understand the need to believe that there is an invisible guy in the sky,that i must worship and do horrible things in his name,that watches me 24/7.Where is free will when you must be afraid all the time not to sin?

i see where your coming from with your other points, but personifying god minimizes the concept.. god is not a person but everything, all expressions of life, the cosmic plan or what have you... and why would you be scared? with out sin how else are we to learn?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul



An atheist is someone who knows 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no God!, How they know this for sure, without any evidence to back it up, beats me lol …or perhaps some atheists believe by faith, that God doesn’t exist.


Hope that sums it up…


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft

An atheist is someone who knows 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no God

Would you kindly provide a source for this definition, or if it is your own, explain why you think it is correct.

Most people would say an atheist is someone who simply does not believe in God.

reply to post by Astyanax

Originally posted by Astyanax
Would you kindly provide a source for this definition, or if it is your own, explain why you think it is correct.

Most people would say an atheist is someone who simply does not believe in God.

There is no source for that definition, well, none that I am aware of anyway. I was trying to make subtle point, using a touch of humor.

My point is, that if an atheist doesn’t believe that God exists, but can’t say that it is an absolute fact, then he or she, is to some degree, exercising an element of faith. Which for some reason, is something that atheists find hard to admit too.


- JC

reply to post by Joecroft


Logically, no one but God can know that God does not exist, as it requires making an absolute statement from non-absolute observations. So anyone who says "I know that God does not exist" is making an inaccurate statement, which is not defensible.

However, the other side is just as incorrect -- an atheist can say "I do not believe that God exists", but this is not the same thing as "I believe that God does not exist" (which the atheist may also say, but which makes a different assertion.)

It serves an atheist's argument to believe that "There is no God" is a valid statement, and it serves the theist's argument to say that the atheist's lack of belief is actually a belief, but neither are true.

reply to post by Joecroft

My point is, that if an atheist doesn’t believe that God exists, but can’t say that it is an absolute fact, then he or she, is to some degree, exercising an element of faith.

Oh, no, not this old chestnut again.

Grateful thanks to my Christian friend adjensen for saving me the trouble of replying. He is correct.

Originally posted by Joecroft
An atheist is someone who knows 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there is no God!

...there are all kinds of atheists... some are even agnostic about the existence of gods... some are fond of saying to god believers that if you dont believe in the existence of ALL gods, you're an atheist too - a "selective atheist"... its kind of like having "selective hearing"... i have an ex husband who had that impairment...


...for me, when it comes to gods, it has nothing to do with absolute belief 100% beyond a shadow of a doubt... i simply do not give a damn - never have...

Originally posted by Joecroft
How they know this for sure, without any evidence to back it up, beats me lol …or perhaps some atheists believe by faith, that God doesn’t exist.

...i have faith in me and my decisions...

Originally posted by Joecroft
My point is, that if an atheist doesn’t believe that God exists, but can’t say that it is an absolute fact, then he or she, is to some degree, exercising an element of faith. Which for some reason, is something that atheists find hard to admit too.

...faith is not just a religious or spiritual concept... its the same as trust, imo... blind faith is a religious or spiritual concept... its common for those of the blind faith ilk to falsely presume that atheists believe in nothing, have faith in nothing - which is absurd...

...i believe in lots of things, some even unverifiable, lol... i have faith in a lot of things... i had faith in my SO when he was alive because he proved over and over that it was warranted... i have faith that the sun will rise in the morning cuz it always has... i have faith in my cookin and so would you if you were ever lucky enough to taste it, lol...

reply to post by adjensen


And this is why adjensen is a reasonable individual who I see as an ally against ignorance, even if we disagree on some things sometimes.

Atheism is the negative form of theism.
The negative form is signified by 'not'
Theism: God(s)
Atheism: Not God(s)

Neither case can actually reach a point of certainty, but both agree that they think themselves at a point of reasonable assumption.

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen
Logically, no one but God can know that God does not exist,…

The first part of your above statement, appears to be an oxymoron lol, but it’s ok, I understand the point you were trying to make making.

Originally posted by adjensen
So anyone who says "I know that God does not exist" is making an inaccurate statement, which is not defensible.
However, the other side is just as incorrect -- an atheist can say "I do not believe that God exists", but this is not the same thing as "I believe that God does not exist" (which the atheist may also say, but which makes a different assertion.)

I’m not sure I follow you here, why are those two apparently different assertions, different from each?
In what way are they different?

Both of those above assertions use the word “believe”, so therefore they are both encompassing an element of faith. I don’t have a problem with that type of faith per se, even though I would prefer people to come a belief in God, through Jesus.

Originally posted by adjensen
It serves an atheist's argument to believe that "There is no God" is a valid statement, and it serves the theist's argument to say that the atheist's lack of belief is actually a belief, but neither are true.

Well I don’t think a lack of belief is really the main point of whether someone is exercising faith in something, or not. I don’t see belief from the atheists perspective as a lack of belief but simply as a belief in itself.


- JC

reply to post by Wyn Hawks

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...i have faith in me and my decisions...

I’m glad you have faith in you, it’s important to have faith in oneself.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...faith is not just a religious or spiritual concept... its the same as trust, imo... blind faith is a religious or spiritual concept... its common for those of the blind faith ilk to falsely presume that atheists believe in nothing, have faith in nothing - which is absurd...

I think “Blind faith” is something which many people attribute to most religious believers, but no faith in God is ever completely blind, because arguments for and against will have been looked at, and experiences come into play as well.

When a person is weighing up historical Biblical evidence or scientific factors, this may sway them in one direction or another, into their belief, so faith is never completely blind. The same can also be said of atheists, in that the decision they have come to, isn’t completely blind either i.e. they have reasons why they don’t believe.

Originally posted by Wyn Hawks
...i believe in lots of things, some even unverifiable, lol... i have faith in a lot of things... i had faith in my SO when he was alive because he proved over and over that it was warranted... i have faith that the sun will rise in the morning cuz it always has... i have faith in my cookin and so would you if you were ever lucky enough to taste it, lol...

I wish I had faith in my cooking lol


- JC

Originally posted by Joecroft

Originally posted by adjensen
So anyone who says "I know that God does not exist" is making an inaccurate statement, which is not defensible.
However, the other side is just as incorrect -- an atheist can say "I do not believe that God exists", but this is not the same thing as "I believe that God does not exist" (which the atheist may also say, but which makes a different assertion.)

I’m not sure I follow you here, why are those two apparently different assertions, different from each?
In what way are they different?

Belief requires a decision on the part of the person, a coming to conclusion based on some criteria. Not having a belief does not require a decision, because it is simply not having a belief. The first statement is that of a person who has no belief. The second statement is of a person who does have a belief, that of God's non-existence.

Consider a person who has never heard of God. The first statement is inherently implied, while the second is impossible to apply to this person. As they have never heard of God, they cannot believe in him, but neither can they believe that he doesn't exist.

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen
Belief requires a decision on the part of the person, a coming to conclusion based on some criteria.

Yes, exactly, belief is about coming to a decision on something regardless of what that thing is, and atheists have come to a decision that something does not exist.

Lack of, or even an abundance of, doesn’t really come into it for me, because an atheists could argue that a Christians or Theist’s belief, is a lack of a belief, that God does not exist; so both positive and negative perspectives can be applied both ways and by both groups, so the way I see it, they both have to be looked at, as simply beliefs.

Originally posted by adjensen
Not having a belief does not require a decision, because it is simply not having a belief.

But not having a belief in something means that a decision has already been made.

If for example, I say that I do not believe in the existence of UFOs, that means I have a non-belief in them, but it is still, in essence a belief because it would be something which I believed to be true.

Originally posted by adjensen
The first statement is that of a person who has no belief. The second statement is of a person who does have a belief, that of God's non-existence.

Consider a person who has never heard of God. The first statement is inherently implied, while the second is impossible to apply to this person. As they have never heard of God, they cannot believe in him, but neither can they believe that he doesn't exist.

Well, you didn’t mention in your other post, that those assertions were used by or being tied into a “person who has never heard of God”.

If a person has never heard of God, then he/she has no belief at all, until they make a decision. But if that were the case, then the person making those assertions (or the first assertion), would be at least aware of the concept of God, even if he or she hadn’t yet come to a decision but the problem is, that both statements already imply that a decision has been made.

My point is, if a person had never heard of God, then they wouldn’t, or shouldn’t, be making that first statement or even the second, to begin with, until they had come to a decision either way. So for that reason, I don’t think your argument can be applied in this case.

It’s hard to put a label on someone who has never heard of God, if anything, they would have to be looked at, as a kind of neutral agnostic.


- JC

reply to post by adjensen


It feels really good to see theists explaining the null position for me. It's even better that they're understanding it.

There are various famous examples philosophers (and satirists) have used to point this out.

Which statement makes more sense to you?
I do not believe in the gigantic space volleyball tournament between a giant anthropomorphic peanut and a hive-mind of mobile phones
I believe there is no gigantic space volleyball tournament between a giant anthropomorphic peanut and a hive-mind of mobile phones

Of course the former, as I just created the idea off the top of my head by picking out random items off of my desk, so you had no previous exposure to it.

Another good example is that it is just an on/off switch.

Theists have the belief switch on
Atheists have the belief switch off