Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert

reply to post by whaaa


My favorite Christian rock band will always be Faith + 1!

Originally posted by arcnaver
reply to post by Annee

 

Would a Buddhist Concert make you feel better? Or maybe a band of wild natives dancing and singing naked on stage would suffice. Did the CO order the Soldier to Convert?

Me, personally, no, I would not feel any better. Religion is religion and I would be offended if our soldiers were forced to attend a religious concert even if it were a pagan ceremony (the religious genre which most closely follows my personal beliefs).

I cannot see how mMilitary folk consolidate their actions with any "peaceful" religious dogma anyway, since their entire purpose is ultimately to murder anyone who stands in the way of the government's foreign or domestic policy. I know it is called the "Department of Defense", but it sure doesn't seem to me that anything we do nowadays is defensive.

Our first ammendment protections against the establishment of a state religion is what this is all about. I agree that we do not have a freedom FROM religion, but if the Executives of the military are requiring soldiers to attend a religious ceremony, that reeks of an attempt to establish a state religion.

Still, I suppose if you look at the ammendment closely, it says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;", so nothing that has been done here is unconstitutional.

[edit on 8-21-2010 by rogerstigers]

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by ~Lucidity

It is extremely critical that the U.S. military is not perceived as a Christian military, particularly when they are engaged in combat in the heart of the Islamic world. It is dangerous to out troops.

Christian military? Has everyone so quickly forgotten the scriptures that were engraved on bullets? Is that just "yesterday's news"?

Good on this guy for standing up to corrupt authority shoving religious agenda down his throat.

From my post PRIOR to the one your responded to.

o When companies do things like put Christian scripture on guns our troops use

Just to be clear.

Originally posted by debunky


Oh you haven't heard half of it annee...
From the article linked in the OP

Thanks - really needed that

I remember back in the 50s in public grade school that my Jewish friends had to celebrate Christian holidays.

We've come so far in 50+ years.

Originally posted by arcnaver
reply to post by Annee

 

Would a Buddhist Concert make you feel better? Or maybe a band of wild natives dancing and singing naked on stage would suffice. Did the CO order the Soldier to Convert?

You obviously interpreted what I wrote - - instead of reading what I wrote.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I'm all for separation of church and state, but did you know that it was never written into the constitution?

Yes - - and we go through this discussion every time Religion and Government are brought up.

I go by legal cases that have gone through the court systems and set precedence.

Here is a history of Separation of Church and state: www.abovepolitics.com...

[edit on 21-8-2010 by Annee]

More power to the guys for standing up for their beliefs and refusing to be forced into going to a christian rock concert. I am impressed with the bands comments most born again christians would be screaming bloody murder about anyone refusing to be "saved."

[edit on 063131p://2226 by mike dangerously]

[edit on 073131p://2726 by mike dangerously]

First, I would to thank the members of ATS for posting thier opinions and helping me to decide that I will no longer just sit back a watch my homeland go crazy any longer. Too many people here, who may or may not have more experience than me in military matters claim that the United States armed forces are a chiristianized military force. Let me set the record straight, in my over 16 years in the Air Force I have never been "punished" for not attending an official function. However, it is common in the military for those who don't attend a function to be at their duty station. Let me clarify, official functions could be anything from a retirement ceremony, a christian rock concert, or a golf tournament. If you don't golf you better be at the duty station. I hate golfing personally, but I can't go mountain biking instead. And as to the "no electronics" issue, I don't allow iPods in my duty section. If you haven't served in the military you probably don't realize that the senior NCO's and officers in charge are more politically correct than crazed neo-con crusaders. Non -military people don't realize that Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, and Marines willingly sacrifice some of their freedoms to ensure yours.

Originally posted by Sphota
reply to post by WeRpeons

 

Establishing no law means no law to forbid, no law to coerce; no law at all. Thus, you cannot punish a soldier for not wanting to practice his superior's religion. That would be establishing a rule (a law).

Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware the 1st amendment included the part about religion. You learn something new everyday, that's what I like about ATS.

Originally posted by rogerstigers

Originally posted by arcnaver
reply to post by Annee

 

Would a Buddhist Concert make you feel better? Or maybe a band of wild natives dancing and singing naked on stage would suffice. Did the CO order the Soldier to Convert?

What I actually said is: I see no problem with specific belief groups organizing concerts for themselves. Which should apply to any and all beliefs (except for extreme White Supremacy etc).

So if you are Native American and want a Pow Wow - - absolutely!

People putting their lives on the line for this country have a right to be supported by their beliefs. All have the right to attend - with Respect. No one can be forced to attend.

The commanding General did not have a right to force his belief on an entire group.

I honestly do believe that some of these military personnel think this will be a holy war, against Iran. I am a Christian, and it hurts to see these kinds of actions going on anywhere. I don't want people to make me do something I wouldn't want to do.

As people have said before, separation of church and state.

I am with you guys all the way.

reply to post by Sheol


They should never have been forced or pressured into attending this concert period. This is just bad.. You'd think after long days in Iraq or Afghanistan people would be in the mood for fanatical christian garbage? People have families and lives to catch up with for petes sakes.

Yall can say all you want about the "eeeeevil" christians.

I dont agree with "forced" participation at a religious concert. My head would begin to bleed after about 3 songs and every other word being jesus or "we're not worthy". I'm cool with christians and christianity but the music (short of the old standards) make me want to scream.

In fairness, I will say I've heard a couple of tunes that were'nt all sappy, had a good message, gave you some vitality, and rocked out.

But.

You think they're not under attack as well?

How about Chaplain Klingenschmidt that got into it when he refused to stop praying IN THE LORDS NAME!

I dont see them doing much to the muslims (but kissing their asses).

How about Judge Roy Moore. He put the Ten Commandments in the state rotunda....and refused the federal (go figure) order to remove them?

Show me a religion that has a problem with the Ten and I'll show you a group of people that need to be exported on the next boat out of here!

How about soldiers being denied bibles "because they're in a muslim country". Screw'em. If they want the help, shut up and sit down. By God the muzzies can have their korans and ramadan food in prison though!

btw,

how many of you christian bashers are muzzie supporters? let me count.

The church today isn't what Jesus brought in his day I grant you (they dont cut off heads though!). They were much more gnostic in approach. The church today (find Proto's link) is Roman Empire Ver. 3.0. Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire is also a good source.

Now, its a lot about "prosperity" crap. They get everyone jazzed up emotionally and focus the energy....without the people understanding whats up.

Last I heard, thats black magic .

There are some that are trying to get back to the roots as best as they can though. Klingenschmidt and Moore may be some of these.

I remember a story.

A little girl is sitting in church smiling like a monkey and quitely giggling. The preacher gives a look at the parents and they look at her.

She stops for a bit...then starts again.

Same looks from preacher to parents.

Mother asks "what is your problem?" Little girls say's "I'm just happy".

They end up sending her outside to wait on the steps.

Jesus walks up and sits beside the little girl outside and say's "dont worry, I've been trying to get in there for years!"

Originally posted by Equinox99
I honestly do believe that some of these military personnel think this will be a holy war, against Iran. I am a Christian, and it hurts to see these kinds of actions going on anywhere. I don't want people to make me do something I wouldn't want to do.

As people have said before, separation of church and state.

I am with you guys all the way.

Yea, folks forget that soldiers in the end are no different to you and me. They have their own opinions, own views, and beliefs. You get folks always insisting that soldier is a christian or that soldier is of this ideology and somehow we are lead to believe thats the consensus of the entire population of soldiers serving which is not the case.

Here is an official list of: Available Emblems of Belief for Placement on Government Headstones and Markers

It gives you an idea of how many different beliefs there are in the military.

www.cem.va.gov...

While this has been common practice in the military for decades. This part of coming out and reporting it and making a fuss about cleaning the barracks is new. When I was in, there were religious themed concerts and such and we were told we should attend and if we did not some unpleasant task would befall us.

This has been the norm for so long it is beyond my recollection. It is really non news IMHO. Since the article sites specific named individuals I would suspect that there are blanket parties in their immediate future.

I never did attend their Christian concerts or devotions. I did spend time cleaning the barracks also but you meet the nicest people that way that you might never meet. The first time I sat out of one of these Christian events in the Army I met a guy who was a Sikh. He was really interesting and our discussions were quite interesting and inspired me to read some of their teachings.

He also found my religion of choice very interesting being that I was one of the few way back then that had Wicca on my dog tags. He learned a lot from me as well. Other interesting associations were also made but this was one of the first of note. It all depends I guess if you look upon yourself as being persecuted or it you find opportunity in any situation you find yourself in.

I always chose the later.

Originally posted by felonius
Yall can say all you want about the "eeeeevil" christians.

We are clearly not saying 'all the evil christians'. We are saying these soldiers should not have to be forced or pressured to attend any religious events. Nobody has the business in doing that period. If these soldiers were forced to attend an religious islamic event to cater to the sensitivities of muslims would you be so quick to jump in defense?

I dont agree with "forced" participation at a religious concert.

Then there is no need to be so defensive.

How about soldiers being denied bibles "because they're in a muslim country".

Since when? Can you link to this claims? And what are we doing in these muslim countries anyway? You do know our constitution does not apply in other countries right?

how many of you christian bashers are muzzie supporters?

Whats a muzzie supporter?

Im a christian and support the right for people to practice whatever religion they wish and to freely establish a place of worship. Whats a muzzie supporter again?

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
While this has been common practice in the military for decades. This part of coming out and reporting it and making a fuss about cleaning the barracks is new. When I was in, there were religious themed concerts and such and we were told we should attend and if we did not some unpleasant task would befall us.

Because its always been done that way - makes it right?

Fortunately - not every one thinks this way.

I have been in the military over 24 yrs now and have never been forced or seen anyone else forced to attend a religous gathering. If these soldiers were forced to attend I could only assume as it was to get a good showing for a band that came out to entertain them, not for some religous pretext. Stateside entertainment typically brings in lower numbers as people would rather do other things with their time. Leaders just want troops to support the people that come out and support and entertain them.

I must say though that I was routinely expelled from my office at one assignment in Korea because a someone needed to pray to allah and was too lazy to walk to the Chapel.

reply to post by facelift


He's a training accident waiting to happen.

He's got my admiration for standing up to the bigots, but i doubt he has much of a future in the military now.