Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert

Originally posted by OrphenFire

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES


From source article:

Update: An Army spokesman now says the Pentagon will investigate soldiers' claims that they were punished for refusing to attend the Christian-themed concert.

Good deal, in my opinion.

There is no reason servicemen and women should be forced to attend any sort of recreational function (religious or otherwise) under threat of disciplinary action.

Shame on their superior.

*edit - spelling

[edit on 8/21/10 by GENERAL EYES]

When I was in the Navy, I was forced on pain of disciplinary action to attend recreational events all the time. I loved working out. I loved the pt sessions. Very motivating, very physically and mentally rewarding. But I hate sports, and yet I was forced to attend AND compete in athletic events quite frequently. I didn't raise a big stink, I just took it and rolled my eyes. But if it had been religious in nature, you better believe I would make a big stink.

Where in the chain of command is a news organization? If you served then you probably know this was just some Staff Sergeant overstepping his bounds. A failure in leadership at the enlisted level. These enlisted guys are straight off the farm. Then given leadership responsibilities.

Time to let our dirty little secret out. Not all military guys and gals are smart. And when they try to freelance it usually ends up bad.

[edit on 22-8-2010 by Come Clean]

Originally posted by Parallex

This shows just how dangerous the Christian fundamentalist movement has become, and why they should be purged.

ATS take note - the danger is in complacency - Be vigilant of these fanatics at all times.

I agree that forcing anyone to attend was wrong. That was the fault of the Officer, not the entertainers who likely were not even being paid.

However, by your language you seem far more dangerous than they do. You want to take away Freedom of Religion and not only that, you want them purged. That makes you as radical as the most radical Christian I've ever witnessed.

Purged generally is used when a person means eliminated is it not. So, you want them dead perhaps? Or are you saying you want to force your personal beliefs on others and take their freedoms away?

In this case the performers did absolutely nothing wrong and yet you want them purged? Who is the real radical in this equation? The band who did nothing wrong to anyone?

They were likely voluntold (volunteered by their chain of command) to attend the concert.

Last time I was in Korea we had something similar with Korean artist performing, there were majors and 1st Sergeants at the enterance of the concert making sure we didn't leave.

This has nothing to do with religion, it's all about making sure people are
'enjoying' the concerts.

Most soldiers prefer to spend their free time elsewhere and hate being told what to do in their off time.

Originally posted by TexasSailor
why are we even saying anything honestly, this kind of crap is gonna happen regardless. At least that soldier remembered Honor Courage And Commitment. Yes Honor to stand against an unlawful order, the Courage to speak up and the Commitment to follow through. He will probably get discharged with an dishonorable discharge for doing something Honorable...whatever this country is lost and hopeless at this point.

I cant say how honorable a stranger is, but I applaud him for taking control of his morality.

With any luck more troops will take back their morality... and refuse to kill strangers 1000s of miles beyond rifle range of "America".. just because chronic lying politicians gave their crippled "word" it was justified.

Speaking of evangelical stuff... and troops.. it seems the 2 conflict and troops would be better off abstaining... based on my limited knowledge of organized religion.

When a troop is standing tall before his/her maker, god.. what's the argument/justification for slaughtering "gods" children?.. "it's ok, the oath made me do it"?

Jeez some of ya'll have issues. Ignorance being one of them. To the detractors. Have you ever served? No.

In Basic Training it is a frequent occurrence to be offered the opportunity to attend an event or pursuant to your normal duties, clean the barracks.

Cleaning the barracks is a duty as opposed to a punishment.

This happened during the Advanced Individual Training phase, here's a typical day. Keeping the baracks clean is mandatory.

Time Activity Description
0500 Wake-up Wake up and perform personal morning tasks. For males, shaving is mandatory every morning.
0530 Physical Training (PT) Line up in company area, perform morning physical training (calisthenics and running).
0630 Breakfast
0830 Training Begin the day's scheduled training exercises.
1200 Lunch
1300 Training Continue the day's scheduled training exercises.
1700 Dinner
1800 Drill sergeant time Time for drill sergeants to talk to the recruits about any subject they may think requires attention.
Mail call is also performed during this time.
2030 Personal time Time for recruits to engage in personal activities, such as writing letters, doing laundry, showering, or simply relaxing.
Recruits may also catch up on platoon duties during this time, such as barracks cleaning or wall locker organization.
2130 Lights-out

Just for reference the barracks should be clean anyway, so it's your CO's way of saying, we're going to tell our superiors that if you aren't attending the show you are cleaning the barracks, even though we know they are already clean, but we have nothing else for you to do, so have fun.

I wasn't familliar with the band but after some research, Barlowgirl doesn't preach on stage. They are an alt rock group and some of their music is Christian themed. No more so than many other bands who play shows for the military. Here are a few of the "Christian" acts. Papa Roach, Billy Ray Cyrus, LeAnn RImes, Toby keith, Henry Rollins and Black Flag, Boyz II Men, Montgomery Gentry, Dierks Bentley, Raheem, Outkast, The Killers, Naughty by Nature, Modern West, DJ Skribble, Paul Wall, Queensryche, Seether, James Taylor, David Banner, Whitney Houston, Nappy Roots, Everlast, Baby Bash, Eliot Yamin, Neal McCoy, Yellow Card, Kelli Pickler, O.A.R., Aerosmith, Five for Fighting, Carrie Underwood, Jonas Brothers, Rob Zombie's nephew Powerman 5000, Drowning Pool, Kid Rock, LA Mafia, Master P, Lil Romeo, Lil Mo and clutch... just to name a few who entertained the armed services where the option to attend or clean was given. Not all were of the Christian faith though.

Did the guy who'd rather clean the barracks rather than go see Master P have a hissy fiit?

Many of the bands they play these type of shows represent different religons.

Calling them a Christian rock group is the same as calling the Jonas Brothers a christian pop band. What's the difference? Lots of major acts that play for the armed forces in similar circumstances have religous content in their songs, but nobody makes a federal case out of it. Just because someone sings a song about god doesn't mean their attempt is to convert you or indoctrinate you, you decided to go to the show after all. Oh yeah, Just because Master P sang a song at one show that said kill these bit$h ni@@az, doesn't mean he was trying to get the army to kill a group of punk a$$ black people. How the record companies market a band is up to the company once they pay for the albums. The content even gets altered. But these girls are good christians and solid citizens. And they seemingly put on a good rock show. Hell their album was 83 on the billboard top 100.

Even if there is a difference it's irrelevant. Attendance wasn't mandatory. you can perform your normal duties that occur during training or go to a concert.

So please understand cleaning the already clean barracks or attending a function is common during training.

If you have an issue with spirituual fitness in the army, tough. It's policy. DA PAM 600-63-12 and Field Manual 16-1. Look it up.

In the Spiritual Fitness programs all major religons are represented with a few exceptions. Jews, Muslims, Protestants, Catholics, Hindu, Buddists... Umm apologies to the exceptions I notieced which may or may not be accurate, Jehova's Witness's-But they couldn't attend the party anyway could they?, Scientologists-With all of those entertainers listed theres bound to be one of those idiots in there, oops yeah, Brandy, Lisa Marie Presley, Rob Thomas, Issac Hayes, devil worshipers weren't represented and I guess all of the nation of Islam bands were on the mother wheel chillin with Sister Rita and Elijah Mohammed.

Nobody was forced to go. If someone didn't go they didn't have to perform an additional duties. No penealty whatsover. Ask any serviceman. Would you like to go to this or clean the barracks? Happens all the time. Just because the members of a band are christian doesn't mean they want to convert you. I never saw Sammy Davis Jr try to convert folks at concerts to Anton Levey's Church of Satan. Never seen Brandy try to talk me into scientology at a show.

Much ado about nothing.Try to find a real issue to gripe about.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Sashromi

First, no one is forced to go to religious events in the armed forces. NEVER! Doesn't happen, and anyone who tries telling you otherwise is lying to you.

And you military keep missing the point.

They should not have Christian concerts. I don't care if 90% of the military is Christian - - these concerts should not happen.

I don't particularly like Christmas party's either. But we are voluntold to go to those. Matter of fact, I don't particularity like chaplains. I mean really, how many chaplains do we need to cover all the religions?

I'd like to see a mosque on every base, camp or airfield. (not really but you get my point) Instead, there is a protestant church on every base.

We use to go to church just to get OUT of cleaning the barracks.

Listen folks. Punishment in the military means brig time. Or it means your career is basically ruined because you got bad paper put into your record. The barracks must be cleaned daily. At the least weekly. It's not a college dorm. It's tax payer money. The honchos have to make sure these folks aren't destroying tax payer money.

I agree with someone above. This Pvt wanted to rack out and be lazy for a few hours. Everyday in the military is a training day. If you're not training you're sleeping. If you're not sleeping you're training.

The civilian folks go out of their way to increase moral. They volunteer FOR FREE to do those concerts. I don't think it's out of bounds for military folks to attend them. If they don't want to then so be it. But don't think you're just going to rack out for the rest of the day.

In the real world people can quit. You just can't quit the military guys. That means you HAVE NO RIGHTS. Not while you're wearing that uniform.

reply to post by Sheol


How stupid.

Troops are still individuals, and if they did not want to attend, that is their right.

How do they put up with crap like this?

Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by TexasSailor
why are we even saying anything honestly, this kind of crap is gonna happen regardless. At least that soldier remembered Honor Courage And Commitment. Yes Honor to stand against an unlawful order, the Courage to speak up and the Commitment to follow through. He will probably get discharged with an dishonorable discharge for doing something Honorable...whatever this country is lost and hopeless at this point.

I cant say how honorable a stranger is, but I applaud him for taking control of his morality.

With any luck more troops will take back their morality... and refuse to kill strangers 1000s of miles beyond rifle range of "America".. just because chronic lying politicians gave their crippled "word" it was justified.

Speaking of evangelical stuff... and troops.. it seems the 2 conflict and troops would be better off abstaining... based on my limited knowledge of organized religion.

When a troop is standing tall before his/her maker, god.. what's the argument/justification for slaughtering "gods" children?.. "it's ok, the oath made me do it"?

You know what. They volunteered. They were not forced to join the military. No one joins the military expecting not to kill people a 1000 miles beyond our shores.

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by Sheol

 

How stupid.

Troops are still individuals, and if they did not want to attend, that is their right.

How do they put up with crap like this?

You guys are confusing civilians rights with military rights. They are not interchangeable. For example, you have the right to live where you want to. In the military, you don't have that right unless you earn it.

You have the right to speak out against the President. In the military, you don't have that right. Not while in uniform.

You can quit your job but they can't quit so easily. Only O's can quit but rest assured they will pay back what they took from the tax payers.

This Pvt has an identity crisis he's dealing with. He wants to be civilian but he's stuck with a military contract.

G'day all,

This guy did the right thing, you should not be made to attend christine evangelist brain washing concerts, and that’s what they are.

They make you feel good with their music and then when they have you in good spirits that’s when the music stops and the lies and preaching begins.
If you are not a christen they point you out and take you aside and try to convince you that your life is full of sin and wrong and that you will go to hell if you don’t join their cult to be saved by Jesus.
The week minded, drug addicts, alcoholics, the homeless and most of all our children fall pray for this inaccurate made up garbage.
This is how the Evangelista machine works!

I just wonder what the military Wiccan community say about this christen oppression by this superior officer.

What I've never understood is how the Army is related in any way to Christianity. Jesus would be totally against the US Military, or any military if having one wasn't necessary.

Originally posted by Come Clean

You guys are confusing civilians rights with military rights. They are not interchangeable. For example, you have the right to live where you want to. In the military, you don't have that right unless you earn it.

I am not confusing anything.

This is Forced Christianity. It has nothing to do with military discipline.

Originally posted by Come Clean

I'd like to see a mosque on every base, camp or airfield. (not really but you get my point) Instead, there is a protestant church on every base.

Well I really would - and an outdoor Pagan area.

There should be a non-denominational Sanctuary - - that can accommodate any and all beliefs.

I know its slow in coming - - but as more speak up - - it will happen.

Again - - this has nothing to do with military discipline. Forced religion should not be allowed - ever.

Originally posted by DrJay1975
Jeez some of ya'll have issues. Ignorance being one of them. To the detractors. Have you ever served? No....

I registered just to touch on this subject, I, however will not skip the pleasantries. Hello all of the people of this interesting forum!

Ok, years back around christmas, when I was serving in Bosnia, the Dixie Chicks were supposed to perform for us via the USO. Well long story short they took some other gig that paid them more money (that is what we were told) and we got Ricky Skaggs instead. Now, myself, not being big Skaggs fan (ok, not knowing who he was at all), was certainly not going to attend, but was going to hit up the Rose Garden Cafe on the off time instead. They made some good non-alcoholic mudslides : ) Before we were dismissed we were told to go to the concert because the USO puts on the show and if people don't attend they may spend less time and effort putting out new shows. I found it odd that this was the first time I had heard command say go to a show since there had been several throughout the tour. Needless to say, we all went, some with a "aw dammit attitude". The event was worse than I had imagined consisting of entirely christian music. There was even a hymn tossed in there. There were no offers to clean anything since Brown & Root took care of all that. We were just told to go and that the 1st SGT was gonna look for our faces. Whether or not he did is a different story. But, like I said before, I just wanted to throw that out there for what it's worth.

I can imagine what a radical muslim Iman would say bout this issue

....this article is a proof that christian extremists are having a say in the US military and brainwashing the service man to act as the real terrorists in Afghanistan and Iraq

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Come Clean

I'd like to see a mosque on every base, camp or airfield. (not really but you get my point) Instead, there is a protestant church on every base.

Well I really would - and an outdoor Pagan area.

There should be a non-denominational Sanctuary - - that can accommodate any and all beliefs.

I know its slow in coming - - but as more speak up - - it will happen.

Again - - this has nothing to do with military discipline. Forced religion should not be allowed - ever.

Well if you would like to see an outdoor Pagan area come and join the Air Force. Most every base has one with a few devoted Wiccans that maintain with the full support of the installtion commander and base chaplains. We even have a Pagan areas at those "evil" overseas base where we are fighting the keep all the rest of you free.

I'm not sure where your ideas about the military come from, but in reality, if you haven't lived it you probably don't understand it. When you are stationed away from home those chapels and the chaplains that maintain them form a form of spiritual support that some people need. Don't assume that all of us are "Christian Soldiers".

BTW, after 16 years in the military as an Agnostic I have never been "punished for not attending an event. Nor has my Wiccan wife who is also in the military. But watch out, my Methodist daughter may try to convert you.

I remember basic training.

25 years ago.

Those who wanted to go see "The Goonies" were marched off to the post theater.

The rest cleaned toilets and mopped floors.

Why?

Because we had joined the freakin Army.

The ones who went to the movie learned to appreciate a crappy movie.

The rest cleaned up crappy toilets.

If that stuff bothers you then you definitely need to join the army and suffer for a few years. Afterwards you will just shake your heads and tell the world to shut up about this silly garbage.

If that's not an option then why don't we all just sit down and have a good cry?

reply to post by DrJay1975


Technically Barlow Girl is a Christian band (a group of Christians that sing Christian themed music under a Christian label), which I suspect is the main issue with many of the posters here. Aside from that they do have a modern sound to them but their music is all Christian themed. They have some good music, good for when I want a lighter female style pop sound. I enjoy a very wide range of music from what you listed as well.

I agree with your post though. I doubt any others have complained in the instances you mentioned. If that is how it is then I believe there is some information left out of the story and many are being untruthful in how the events take place.

Did they really have a Jonas Brothers concert for the military though? I might have had to stay and clean the barracks in a case like that. Then again, depending on how often you get a chance to get away from such duties I might have went just to escape the normal military life. It sounds like you get some good chances to see some bands with decent music in the military, not that I want to join anymore because of that, but it sounds like a nice thing to do for those who do join.

Raist

Originally posted by badgerprints
I remember basic training.

25 years ago.

Those who wanted to go see "The Goonies" were marched off to the post theater.

The Goonies - - - has nothing to do with forcing a specific religious belief.