Troops Punished After Refusing to Attend Evangelical Concert

What is wrong with you people. I'm retired military and your opinions are askew. This is not punishment but a form of control. The private was given a choice. He chose not to attend this function. At no time was he told that this was a mandatory formation. Those who did not attend were given something else to do under a direct order. This is standard operating procdure, nothing more or less. You lack the right to pass judgement on military matters.

Originally posted by flycatch
You lack the right to pass judgement on military matters.

I do not lack judgement or the right to "call out" a general who is blatantly forcing his religious belief.

I get the duty thing - - - but people do need to speak up about any event that could be in violation of Religious Freedom.

If your in the army you have to obey your superiors. Otherwise, when a soldier decides his conscience no longer allows him to kill, he puts down his firearm and endangers his fellow soldiers at the heat of battle.

I can see the sentiment here, but you can attend something and not respond to it or is that this soldier is that 'weak' he can't say no to a message.

If that is the case, he should not even be in the army, he should be in a creche.

reply to post by piddles


reply to post by dominicus


I cannot say all of the songs by this group are great but they certainly have some very nice music. It sounds nothing like described and in fact sounds more modern.

Aside from Barlow Girl though before you bash an entire genre of music I would suggest you check out Demon Hunter, FireFly, Fire Flight, Skillet, HB, or many of the other groups that are out there that have a better sound than half the modern stuff going around today. You certainly cannot list these bands as boring nor can they be said to sound like 80’s lame hair bands.

If you give them a listen you might like them or in some cases they might be a bit too hard for you. Not everyone can handle many of the songs by Demon Hunter, not because they sound lame but because they are just hard hitting.

Raist

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES
There is no reason servicemen and women should be forced to attend any sort of recreational function (religious or otherwise) under threat of disciplinary action.

You're not.

You're given a choice. Either attend the event (known as "forced fun") or you can clean the barracks, etc.

Pretty simple. Some that were interesting I attended. Some days, I cleaned the crappers.

Originally posted by daggyz
If your in the army you have to obey your superiors. Otherwise, when a soldier decides his conscience no longer allows him to kill, he puts down his firearm and endangers his fellow soldiers at the heat of battle.

I can see the sentiment here, but you can attend something and not respond to it or is that this soldier is that 'weak' he can't say no to a message.

If that is the case, he should not even be in the army, he should be in a creche.

As long as they leave Religion out of it.

This is far from the only time superiors have tried to force Christianity.

Religion is a product of divide and conquer. Then the rest, school rivalry's etc..another example of pushing division. The mind is weak when the unseen remains hidden. The army has already been used for injustice for the last 100 years by liars and deceivers. Its too bad patriotism equals giving up your life and /or sanity for the misdeeds of the fools in the world who instigate wars and lie via media to maintain the status quo.

It appears that the several military/former military members who have posted here debunking the spin on this story haven't gotten their point across yet. So I will add my take, having spent 10 years on Army active duty and another 10 years in the Reserves.

First, no one is forced to go to religious events in the armed forces. NEVER! Doesn't happen, and anyone who tries telling you otherwise is lying to you.

Having said that, I will acknowledge that there are religious persons in the military that try to encourage others to their point of view. But that's not a crime, is it? Just the same as someone might try to persuade another to listen to Country or Rap, or support Health Care, or Close the Borders. The military is a microcosm of the nation itself, so it shouldn't surprise someone that there are various viewpoints, and that some try to convert others to theirs - religious or not.

What Private Smith is doing, is exercising his right to use the Chain of Command to complain of his perceived unfair treatment. That's SUPER! And it shows that our military system is working the way that its supposed to.

But let's reconstruct the facts: Private Smith was marched in formation to a concert site. Nothing wrong here. They were then offered the opportunity to go to the concert. Some did, some didn't. Those that didn't probably assumed they would get time off to go rack out, or smoke and joke. However, when instead they found out that they were marched back to the Barracks to GI it, they felt they had been duped. Wahhhhhh! Oh the big cry baby.

It happens all the time in BASIC TRAINING - and that's exactly what he was doing in Fort Eustis - basic training. Guess what, sometimes in Basic Traiing, they even force soldiers to wake up at 4AM, stand inspections, run several miles, do relentless exercises, and then get marched off to places to train on sometimes monotonous things. All under that age old military mantra of "Hurry up and Wait". Oh, and I almost forgot they even yell at you, sometimes cuss, when you don't perform to someone's standard. Its all in the job description.

So Private Smith, decides that it was unfair to have to work and not listen to his IPOD while others in his unit were listening to some Christian Rock concert. And what does he do, he complains and is told its NOT a big deal. Unsatisfied he goes to some schmuck attorney [although by the BIO he has written for his website, you would think he has his own religion], who makes his fortune as the equivilent of the Civil Liberties Union for military personnel. His Law Firm (or in this case "Non Profit" tax sheltered entity that pays him and his staff big fat paychecks, that probably dwarf other non-profit averages), writes a story telling the woe of this situation, which is picked up by another news organization. And because of this, some here think it proves that the entire US military is being brainwashed into evangelical Christianity? Oh Please! One's true ignorance of the military is so obvious when one takes that position.

Even, the Army's statement that they are investigating the incident is construed to be a Crime Scene Extravaganza. Imagine the base on full lock-down, with security patrols guns at the ready at every corner, search lights and helos, no stone unturned. Or maybe, since this IS a conspiracy site, the sudden and unexplained disappearance of certain key witnesses.


Have we settled that assanine line of thought? Good, so let me now say that there are in fact a fair number of evangelicals in the military. That they would surely like to convert you to Jesus, and they may even persist in a conversation or two along those lines. Some are commanders, who see to it that others like them, have the opportunity to get all Jesused out, with Rock Concerts. Good for them.

But for the other 70% plus who are not really religious in the military, it isn't a big deal. Believe me it isn't. And in the future, if PVT Smith can get used to having to do somethings that are sometimes unfair, and manages to stay in the military, then maybe he will get to rack out, smoke and joke, and then have Uncle Sam pay for his college degree.

In the meantime, let's not make a mountain out of molehill.

Originally posted by Sashromi

First, no one is forced to go to religious events in the armed forces. NEVER! Doesn't happen, and anyone who tries telling you otherwise is lying to you.

And you military keep missing the point.

They should not have Christian concerts. I don't care if 90% of the military is Christian - - these concerts should not happen.

reply to post by Annee


While we're at it here. I would like to share this article.
www.cnn.com...

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Annee

 

While we're at it here. I would like to share this article.
www.cnn.com...

Thanks Romantic Rebel

Anyone claiming this doesn't go on - - is probably Christian.

I've been following the Air Force Academy situation since the beginning.

We are slowly making progress. The Big Brass is not getting away with this stuff as much as they used to.

The "little guy" is starting to not only be heard but listened to.

its not war on terror its war of reilgions, yet again who utterly predictable, we are a flawed and failed species, I'm hoping a big astroid just comes and ....lol

From personal experience it is often just over zealous officers and senior NCOs who are not even particularly religious, if at all, that simply cannot get their heads around the fact that anyone could think differently from the current "accepted" doctrine, i.e. Church Parades will be attended every Sunday, religion shall be recorded as whatever the norm is even if the soldier states they are not religious etc.

It is sometimes the case that a lack of personal religious conviction cannot fit into the norm simply because the military personnel databases it is input into do not allow "nothing" to be recorded and the numbskull that is inputting the details cannot think around the problem they face.

My religion was consistently recorded as Church of England for the first 2 years of my military service regardless of my objections to the contrary. I was told that something had to be entered and it had to fit into to one of the major religions on the list. This was later changed by someone with an additional brain cell but it goes to show just how far some idiots can get in the military.

Originally posted by GENERAL EYES


From source article:

Update: An Army spokesman now says the Pentagon will investigate soldiers' claims that they were punished for refusing to attend the Christian-themed concert.

Good deal, in my opinion.

There is no reason servicemen and women should be forced to attend any sort of recreational function (religious or otherwise) under threat of disciplinary action.

Shame on their superior.

*edit - spelling

[edit on 8/21/10 by GENERAL EYES]

When I was in the Navy, I was forced on pain of disciplinary action to attend recreational events all the time. I loved working out. I loved the pt sessions. Very motivating, very physically and mentally rewarding. But I hate sports, and yet I was forced to attend AND compete in athletic events quite frequently. I didn't raise a big stink, I just took it and rolled my eyes. But if it had been religious in nature, you better believe I would make a big stink.

reply to post by Sheol


Is this simply to help fuel the christian / muslim war thats been going on in some form for centuries? indoctrinate with righteous religious fire then release then on the heathen hordes so to speak.
Sounds like the nut factory to me

Probably some Staff Sergeant doing his own thing. I highly doubt the chain of command was aware of something like this. They usually make you work your normal job if it's a work day. They would never make you do extra if it's a off day.

Well, not it today's military. Back in the day they got away with murder.

We use to call something like this mandatory fun. You didn't have to show up but if you didnt you'd find yourself on weekend duty. And there is basically nothing you can do about that. Everyone has to stand duty. Just so happens they picked you for that weekend.

LOL!!! I use to sell my duty's.

There is a part of me that is starting to get concerned about all this ratting out business. I need someone to watch my back in the foxhole. Not rat me out because I asked him to take a hill.

I am just a tad bit concerned about how soft we are getting in our military. That's why I jumped ship. I was hard as nails. Didn't give those kids a chance to even think about not following orders. I would decapitate them before they even raised an eyebrow about not following orders.

Anyone ever notice all the rats are from the Army and Air Farce?

Marines and Sailors don't rat each other out! Ooohrahhh!!!!

So let me ammend an earlier statement. The Army and Air Farce are getting soft.

Anyone ever see that movie Cool Hand Luke? That's what it was like for me coming in the Corps. We never had a failure to communicate. Our minds were always right. Or they made it right just like that boss did to Luke.




[edit on 22-8-2010 by Come Clean]