Are Aliens anything like us??

Hi all, this is my very first thread so i'm sorry if it is a little bit shakey.

Basically i have been studying and investigating UFOs and such phenomenon for a very very long time now and there has always been one thing that has really interested me.

I hear alot of people talking about how mathematics is a universal language and that this is the main way in which we communicate with ETs.
I'm not saying that this is not the case but how have we managed to create the same way of thinking as Aliens?

What i mean is, apparently Mathematics was created by human beings right? Ok it's been studied and added to over the many years but is it a complete fluke that another civilisation has created it in exactly the same way aswel?

I personally believe that basic maths was given to us close to the beginning of man and they left us with the basics in order to evolve our minds and eventually get to the point where we can communicate with them.

Just a thought i would love to hear other peoples ideas on this.

Thanks for your patience!

x peace

Of course they are. They 'created us in their image'

Mathematics was not created by us... it was 'figured out, and understood' by us. We may have put it into terms that we can understand, and developed different methods to communicate it, but those rules apply everywhere.

[edit on 3/3/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

Seems reasonable to me.

So that would make the pyramids our building blocks or Lego right?

All joking aside, I am marveled by the divine proportion or golden mean. The ratio of 1:1.6180...

If ever there was a universal mathematical concept "They" wanted us to know, then this is it. IMO it is mathematical poetry in motion. The number of male honey bees to female honey bees in any hive. Or the ratio in which spirals of seas shells expand. Or the ratio of your digits at each joint or knuckle, feet to shin to thigh. Or sunflower seeds spiraling. www.mckibbenlandscaping.com...


goldennumber.net...

www.thegoldenmean.com...



[edit on 3-3-2010 by sparrowstail]

[edit on 3-3-2010 by sparrowstail]

[edit on 3-3-2010 by sparrowstail]

reply to post by SquirrelNutz


I can see what you mean but what i am trying to say is that everything has an origin. We could not understand it if it was not there for us to understand.

Originally posted by sparrowstail
Seems reasonable to me.

So that would make the pyramids our building blocks or Lego right?

Haha i guess your right! But i have doubts that pyramids were build by humans anyway but thats a different discussion

Hey I believe the human form is the most common in this galaxy and that humans in some for reside on around 30million planets most of these are sexually compatible and some could pass as a swedish guy is sunglasses and walk around in public. I dont think decimal maths is the most used but rather sexagesimal (base 60) much like the sumerians and babylonians used. I also think not many would use cumbersome speach or writing to communicate but rather synchronize their brainwaves and do it telepathically. Theres some great new technology that can read your thoughts making it into the mainstream like controlling a computer mouse using thought alone. Better at interpreting brainwaves than these technologies would simply be another brain. When thought forms are used for communication one could literally download everything they know to someone else quikly which would render the tounge uneeded. I feel when humans evolve their next communication method (telepathy) fully advanced e.t's will be able to communicate with all of us and not just channels. Imagine trying to keep secrets from the masses when everyone is telepathic.

reply to post by Rybo666


First I think it is presumptuous to ask that question. We have no way of knowing that we aren't the only life form. (As great as the universe is, I see how it seems foolish to think we are all there is, though.) But, one assumption opens up a huge door for questions that certainly can't be answered because they're all based on an assumption.

Then, you have to define life. Why not assume that plants and trees think? Maybe asteroids are living too. Black holes might be alive too.

The problem is that we're using ourselves (humans) as the grounds for what defines life. We can't see things without that bias. So...

That's why aliens are portrayed to look like us, except with bigger heads, bigger eyes, and frailer looking bodies.

That's why images of god look just like us.

It's really very self-centered. What else would it be? We feel superior to every other living thing on Earth, so something more advanced than we are must look something like us...? Even those lizard-head people those conspiracy nuts claim exist...look like humans with reptile parts.

It's a bunch of non-sense if you ask me. I like to imagine, too...don't get me wrong. But, to even speak of aliens like they exist is taking it far enough...much less to start pondering questions that assume they do.

reply to post by glitchinmymatrix


A little narrow minded don't you think? If you did the research you would find numerous claims that we were made in their image (humanoid) not the other way round.

Even some ancient hieroglyphics portray cross breeding between Humans (or homosapiens) and ETs.

If you dig far enough you will find that no assumption is needed. There is proof but it's covered up and very hard to find.

Thanks for the reply!




[edit on 3-3-2010 by Rybo666]

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz
Mathematics was not created by us... it was 'figured out, and understood' by us. We may have put it into terms that we can understand, and developed different methods to communicate it, but those rules apply everywhere.

[edit on 3/3/2010 by SquirrelNutz]

I disagree. We created mathmatics just as we created time, fair enough theres a period where the earth rotates around the sun but we created the units to describe that period and define it as "time"

Days could have been defined as 12 hours or 48 hours or 32 hours, we created the definition.

Time is a human concept, I'll agree. just because you can subtract one time from another to get duration with math, does not make time=math.

Sure all the peoples of this universe have the same creator so you would expect that we have something in common but the package may differ somewhat!

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

Time is a human concept, I'll agree. just because you can subtract one time from another to get duration with math, does not make time=math.

Yeah the thing I'm getting as is humans made mathmatics mean something i.e. we use the number 2 to represent two objects well we could just as easily use the number 9, it wouldn't make any physical difference to the objects.

It would just be a different way of representing the same thing.

I'm pretty confident that this theory can be applied to anything. Take Quantum Physics, I know your argument is that we discovered science etc but did we really or did we simply construct it?

We know atoms exist because we can see them with microscopes but why are they "atoms"? Because we called them atoms, its hard to convey what exactly I mean in writing but do you see what I mean ?

reply to post by MOTT the HOOPLE


haha that's assuming the universe was created by a being! Now that is something that we have no proof for!

reply to post by Death_Kron


I think i get what you mean but is this not saying that mathematics already existed before we made it applicable to us?

If this is the case it must have come from somewhere?

I don't think it is very accurate to say that math is a universal language. It is more accurate to say that there are certain physical constants in nature that can be used as benchmarks. For instance the oscillation wavelength of a hydrogen photon is an absolute value which is constant throughout the universe. This wavelength can be used as a unit of measurement or a multiple of it can be used as the wavelength to transmit a conspicuous signal on. Constants such as these are independent of a base number system and can be used as a universal base unit themselves.

As for the original question about whether or not another race would be anything like us my guess is that it would depend on who we crossed paths with. If you look at the average age of a star system compared to ours and assume that the age of a civilization would typically correlate then the average age of a species would be 4.2 billion years older than us. The Chinese separated themselves from the rest of the world for only a few hundred years. They coexisted in nearly the same habitat but even so we have a lot of difficulty understanding each others cultural concepts.

In 1974 SETI sent this signal into space to attract the attention of extra terrestrials. The signal contained all kinds of basic info about us in a supposedly easy format to understand. Some years later as an experiment several scientists were asked to try interpreting it. The result, as you may have guessed, is that they couldn't.

I'm reminded of the book "Eon" by Greg Bear. In the story a futuristic human comes across an computer that had been forgotten for hundreds of years. The computer had the mind of an enemy alien downloaded onto it. Thinking that this could be a valuable source of Intel the human who we will call "Dummy" uploads the alien mind into an implant in his own brain for study. He surrounds the implant with firewalls and several other security features including even an explosive charge. For additional safety Dummy keeps the aliens mind in a deactivated state. He goes about his days probing and prodding the alien mind while blissfully going about his regular business among society. Suddenly one day the alien asks Dummy a question. Dummy tries shutting off the implant. Nothing happens. He tries detonating the explosive charge. Nothing. The alien then explains to him that his race has algorithms that humans are not aware of and that Dummy's computer skills are inferior. The point of the story is that we cant expect to comprehend the math, language, culture, etc. of any race we come across that is even slightly ahead of us. Especially when we can't even figure out our own.

Originally posted by Rybo666
reply to post by Death_Kron

 

I think i get what you mean but is this not saying that mathematics already existed before we made it applicable to us?

If this is the case it must have come from somewhere?

Yeah, it exists because we created it. You could look at it and say well did it even exist before we did as it would be irrelevant because if we didn't exist it wouldn't be applicable to us?

A proton is a proton but only because we defined it as a proton if you understand me?

The difference is that a proton is a physical component so yes it would of still existed before we lived on earth but a proton is different to a neutron because we defined that difference?

Understand me or am I becoming confusing?

Originally posted by SquirrelNutz

Of course they are. They 'created us in their image'

I couldn't agree more. The aliens that created us are very similar, but perhaps a bit different. We were designed with the Earth in mind and so are best suited for this planet.

Originally posted by Rybo666
Ok it's been studied and added to over the many years but is it a complete fluke that another civilisation has created it in exactly the same way aswel?

Mathematics is a human concept, developed according to our perceptions as human beings, and there's no guarantee that an alien intelligence would think the same way or come up with the same system.

For instance, human beings by nature like to separate things into components, and attach symbols to represent them, rather than seeing things as a totality. Take, for instance:

1 + 1 = 2

We understand that as having one thing, and then grouping it with another thing, then you have a grouping of two things, which is represented by a "2."

But an alien might look at it as they have one thing, which is unique and can't be included in any kind of group without losing its uniqueness. So there is no such thing as addition, really. Or they might say they have one thing, and when you group it with another thing, you still only have one thing, which is a single group.

1 + 1 = 1 group, where the uniqueness of the components is cancelled by their inclusion in the group. One bucket of water, added to another bucket of water in a larger bucket, still only equals one bucket.

The way our mathematics works, you run into bad paradoxes when you start trying to do things like "divide" and "multiply." We accept the conventions of it, but logically, our mathematics falls apart pretty quickly.
Maybe it's because of the way we perceive things. Maybe an alien wouldn't perceive the universe the same way we do.

Well there seems to be a mixture in ideas here so i'm going to mix it up a bit!

I'm sure most of you will have heard about the signal we sent out into space in 1974 that consisted of basic binary codes to give information about us to any life that could be in the universe.

here was the one we sent:



Then in around 2001 i think, a crop circle turned up with which seemed like a reply.







Assuming this is real and it seems extremely complicated and detailed then is this not a form of communication using mathematics?

If so who taught who?