If Jesus Is God.......

1. Why is he called the “firstborn of all creation?” Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14, John 1:14
2. Why did he say he did not come of his “own initiative”, but was “sent forth?” John 8:42

3. Why did Jesus not know the “day and hour” of the Great Tribulation but God did? Matt. 24:36
4. Who did Jesus speak to in prayer?
5. Why did Jesus say “the father is greater than I am?” John 14:28
6. How did he “appear before the person of God for us?” Heb. 9:24
7. Who spoke to Jesus at the time of his baptism, saying “this is my son?” Matt. 3:17
8. How could he be further exalted to a superior position? Php. 2:9, 10
9. How can he also be the “mediator between God and man?” 1 Tim. 2:5
10. Why did Paul say that “the head of Christ is God?” 1 Cor. 11:3
11. Why does Jesus "hand over the kingdom to his God” and “subject himself to God?” 1 Cor. 15:24, 25
12. Who does he refer to as “my God?” John 20:17
13. Who is referred to prophetically at Prov. 8:22-31
14 How does he sit at God’s right hand? Ps. 110:1
15. Why does John say “no man has seen God at any time?” John 1:18
16. Why did he ask not to be called “good” saying “nobody is good, except one. God?” Luke 18:19
17. Why does Daniel say “to him were GIVEN rulership...?” Dan. 7:13,14
18. Why did people not die when they saw Jesus? Ex. 33:20
19. How was Jesus dead and God alive at the same time? Act 2:24
20. Why did he need someone to save him? Heb. 5:7


20 questions to ponder and seriously mediate on.




Mod Edit: All Caps – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 23 Jan 2010 by Hellmutt]

1. Because he spoke for the Son of man, who are all prophets
2. Because truth is logic and needs to be optimal, it means pillars of destiny, a god that is one sends all out, not anything isn't send out by him
3. Because he was not in the father yet, he spoke as son and was then partly glorified but not taken up in the father
4. Prayer is reflection, the father is opening when you reflect
5. Because jesus spoke from his person, not from his total
6. Jesus could see truth, which means seeing God, and becoming God
at the same time
7. Who speak to you in your dreams, it is always life
8. In this reality God can imprison himself in any way he wants or he is not absolute, in heaven his will not stop to imprison himself to live his fantasies
9. Because being one with god and being in salvation means there was a way of defenind first. What is God will not judge Himself.
10. Because there is none other then God, see leviticus and Isaiah and the Quran
11. Because salvation will stay in this relaity until the end of this reality, the son of man in total needs to step out of this reality,and they will do it together, christ is another meaning for growing into salvation which is annointing
12. His god is one, that is his god, thats why love is the biggest command
13. The son of man as the prophets, which spoke through their mirror in that time, and will do it again through the Elijah-function which will be looked upon as false and the sons, who are the prince, michael.
14. The accuser is left, the defender is what learns that god is one,
this is a symbol. Evolution is as a motor, negative circles into positive.
clockwise it means
15. Because you can not see truth and be not in salvation, what is one is not human anymore
16. because people did not see him as one, but as jesus, a person,
jesus knew that division is a lie
17. Because he already was, because in god time exsists as a 'thing',
a beliefsystem, and still he will be given, in levels, first as the prophets, then all the rest of humanity, because god is all time, he allready has that ownership
18. Because they did not see God, but a person. God is always seen,
there is none outside or except him, but still he is not seen as how he is,
that's the veil of our existence
19. There is only God
20. Because through this life of lies God suffers for Himself, so he can exist as being all, including what he is not. It is not you that cries, it is Him.

sorry for my language problem, im not english speaking.


[edit on 21-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

reply to post by pasttheclouds


I am sorry but your answers don't have the ring of truth or sound logical to me. And you don't have the scriptures to back up those opinions either.

Do you want God to write the bible again then ?
Do you want Truth to allow you to see Him ?
Or was Jesus his example not the effort worth ?

3 questions.

What i can give you,

The law of moses has a dual part, the bible is made dual.
this is the secret of bible-understanding, religion-understanding
and world-understanding.

The priority has to be seen in every interpretation,
if god is not one, the interpretation looses his value,
and we talk about a divided god, not absolute, also
known as Baal

Truth is logic. Because Truth is free, the logic proves
himself to be free of logic. It means the way is found by logic,
which is made by seeing what is not true, another word for repenting,
or reflection.

If you can see the goal, you can understand it's parts only.
The goal is seen by erasing all possibilities that are not true.

God is One.
Life is One.
Truth is One.

reply to post by pasttheclouds


Sorry but your poetic posting style just doesn't work for me, it's like the Riddler just saying "Riddle me this"...............

I didnt write that only for you, but including for you.
But dont let ur curiosity kill you
why dont u ask questions, or you just decided it's not fit and the style neither.. Logic and God is mathematical thinking, you dont have to like my style, you just have to develop skeptic thinking so strong and honest that god as one becomes again possibility and logic starts to explain the bible in a better way then before. I did never like the style of the bible, still i searched it. There will be other to answer ur posts in a style better for you, growth always is in stages. I answered the questions, the questions are always connected to each other, that's why there is no simple answer to read before you grew logic, to understand God.

Expect answers if you search them with all your strength and all your love.
This is written in the bible. The way i write is how it is.
Anyway, i wrote enough in this thread. take care. In your search try always to search past further then what is easy on first sight.


[edit on 21-1-2010 by pasttheclouds]

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33
1. Why is he called the “firstborn of all creation?” Col. 1:15, Rev. 3:14, John 1:14

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation; for in Him all things were created , in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible..."

Interesting that you asked a question that was answered within the referenced texts.

In case you don't understand, being the first-born of all creation made him the means by which all other things could be created. Since God is the invisible God, God created a conduit through which to send His power. Christ is that conduit. That conduit is the manifestation of God - whether He be invisible or visible.

For example, lightning exists... We know it because we can see it and we can hear it and we can feel it. If we were to take the visual aspect away from the lightning, it would no longer be lightning because the light is a component of the lightning that must exist in order for lightning to be considered such!

2. Why did he say he did not come of his “own initiative”, but was “sent forth?” John 8:42

Good question. Now tell me -- did you come of your own? What can physically come all by itself?
Jesus is God's Son -- being made equal with God -- which is the whole reason why the jews sought to stone Him...

3. Why did Jesus not know the “day and hour” of the Great Tribulation but God did? Matt. 24:36

Satan cannot know or understand the thoughts or heart of the invisible God, our Father. However, Satan does have the power to see into the hearts and thoughts of men. When Jesus became manifest, He became vulnerable to Satan's ability to discern His heart. Just like it says in the scripture, Matt. 24:43 "But understand this: if the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and not let his house be broken into."

The knowledge must be kept from Satan -- after all, the earth IS HIS HOUSE.

4. Who did Jesus speak to in prayer?

Our Father. We pray to our Father through Christ. However, Christ is connected with the Father. It is the same as you telling yourself when you're working hard, "You can do it!" or "Be careful." or "I want french fries."

5. Why did Jesus say “the father is greater than I am?” John 14:28

If you read that text again, you will realize that Jesus' point is that being in His Father's presence is a MUCH GREATER EXPERIENCE than what they experience by being physically close to Jesus.

6. How did he “appear before the person of God for us?” Heb. 9:24

Here is the real text : "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us"

How, do you ask, did He get there? He died for us; for all of our sins.

7. Who spoke to Jesus at the time of his baptism, saying “this is my son?” Matt. 3:17

God the Father physically manifested a voice and spoke with it. If God is omnipotent, can He not be manifest in Jesus and YET testify with another voice as to Jesus' existence? Come now... this is simple.

8. How could he be further exalted to a superior position? Php. 2:9, 10

IN case you failed to realize, Jesus was popular, but not THAT popular. However, after He had died for us, He had proven Himself and the Father made His name, Jesus Christ, greater than all other names - so much that if you walked up to anyone on this planet and asked them if they had heard of Jesus Christ, they would be more likely to confirm than if you had asked them if they knew about Hitler. Glory is the definition.

9. How can he also be the “mediator between God and man?” 1 Tim. 2:5

God is invisible, Christ is God manifest, man is physical... this is where you apply the transitive theory!

10. Why did Paul say that “the head of Christ is God?” 1 Cor. 11:3

Because the head of man is not God. The head of man is Christ. And because Christ is the mediator, therefore God is the head of Christ.

11. Why does Jesus "hand over the kingdom to his God” and “subject himself to God?” 1 Cor. 15:24, 25

Because to do otherwise would be to make Himself --greater-- than God, which He is not.

12. Who does he refer to as “my God?” John 20:17

Is not Jesus in His physical form which is made up of the nutrients of the planet a part of creation? Because Christ was manifest as a part of that which He created, you are surprised?

HIS GOD IS OUR FATHER, GOD.

13. Who is referred to prophetically at Prov. 8:22-31

The first text should have been the clue for you Prov. 8:22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before His deeds of old" -- Just so you know, the LORD means "YHWH". God the Father brought forth CHRIST, our Lord, as the first of His works.

14 How does he sit at God’s right hand? Ps. 110:1

The invitation for Christ to sit at God's right hand is not a physical invitation. Rather, the Father is saying, "Watch the works I do and how I will glorify You and Your work from my point of view!" God the Father is trying to convey to us Christ's godliness and closeness to the Father. Kings who place someone at their right hand place the glory from themselves to that someone.

15. Why does John say “no man has seen God at any time?” John 1:18

Because God is invisible.

16. Why did he ask not to be called “good” saying “nobody is good, except one. God?” Luke 18:19

Because that which is good defines the source. The source of good is God. Jesus was trying to convey that even though His appearance was that of good, that His Father is the source of that good. Christ never made the mistake of Satan -- Christ never tried to gain glory for Himself. The Father always glorifies Christ.

17. Why does Daniel say “to him were GIVEN rulership...?” Dan. 7:13,14

Because only the Father can give rulership to the Son.

18. Why did people not die when they saw Jesus? Ex. 33:20

Jesus is Christ in human form. What about seing a human face would kill you(as long as it was healthy)?

19. How was Jesus dead and God alive at the same time? Act 2:24

I could simply say that God is omnipresent... but that will not suffice for you. Christ, the manifestation, the conduit through which power may reach the world from God the Father, had died. However, because of His divinity, DEATH COULD NOT KEEP A HOLD ON HIM. This quote should be proof to you of Christ's divinity-- not an argument against it. ONLY GOD CAN OVERCOME DEATH. GOD CREATED LIFE -- CHRIST. How can death overcome LIFE?! It cannot, or nothing would exist.

20. Why did he need someone to save him? Heb. 5:7

Jesus is Christ manifest in HUMAN FORM. Do you not think that His human form might fear physical death? Do you not think that his physical form might fear separation from God?!

It is heartless at best to not allow Jesus the man to be fearful of being separated from His Father --- which He had never experienced before!

What is hard to imagine about this : The invisible God, completely without form, the Father. His first creation, of course, His SON. Read this sentence carefully. His first CREATION...

What is CREATION?

It is not invisible.
God created an image for Himself - much like we dads have a son and do our best to manifest ourselves through them. They go into the world and do what we teach them.

If we did not have mothers, we would be a copy of our fathers.

Jesus is a copy of His Father. But His Father's will is first.

[edit on 1/21/2010 by TarzanBeta]

reply to post by TarzanBeta


An answer for everything, hhhhmmm, to each his own opinion, at least you made a serious effort to think about it.

reply to post by TarzanBeta


so, god created a visible copy of himself but it isnt really a copy so much as a part of him..

wouldnt it just be easier to go along with the bible and say "God created a son?"

Originally posted by miriam0566
reply to post by TarzanBeta

 

so, god created a visible copy of himself but it isnt really a copy so much as a part of him..

wouldnt it just be easier to go along with the bible and say "God created a son?"

Sure. But if you see the point of the OP, you realize that the point is to attempt to determine whether Jesus is God.

The dispute was not whether God created a son as much as knowing that because God created a son, the Firstborn, that His Son is God manifest.

Of course, to the wise, your explanation would be simple enough.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
Sure. But if you see the point of the OP, you realize that the point is to attempt to determine whether Jesus is God.

The dispute was not whether God created a son as much as knowing that because God created a son, the Firstborn, that His Son is God manifest.

Of course, to the wise, your explanation would be simple enough.

so god son being god also is completely logical to you?

reply to post by miriam0566


Thomas says, "My Lord and my God."

Second line.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Thomas says, "My Lord and my God."

Second line.

so your entire non-logical non-sensical doctrine hangs on thomas' words?

reply to post by miriam0566



If I am wrong, feel free to correct me. I will admit I am wrong if I am.

the OP is enough proof that jesus is not god but rather the son of god.

Originally posted by miriam0566
the OP is enough proof that jesus is not god but rather the son of god.

The OP is severely flawed and I outlined the flaws and answered them.

After contemplation, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot make it any more clear myself. I know that my Lord and my God is Christ. All things were created through Him.

Everything is up top. I cannot relate to someone who claims to believe in the Father and yet not the Son. He said it Himself...

"If you do not believe in me, then you do not believe in my Father that sent me."

Enjoy!

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
The OP is severely flawed and I outlined the flaws and answered them.

but it wasnt. i was black and white. the scriptures posted in a very simple a straight forward way that allows anyone to plainly see that jesus is separate from god.

jesus is god's son. not god.

your answers to them made little sense.

for example when asked how jesus could not know the date but his father does, you started to remble about satan. satan's POV has nothing to do with it.

you entire arguement was essentially "god created a copy that wasnt a copy but infact himself. which is niether logical nor biblically supported.

After contemplation, I have come to the conclusion that I cannot make it any more clear myself. I know that my Lord and my God is Christ. All things were created through Him.

even your own use of language betrays you.

what does it mean to do something "through" someone?

Everything is up top. I cannot relate to someone who claims to believe in the Father and yet not the Son. He said it Himself...

"If you do not believe in me, then you do not believe in my Father that sent me."

Enjoy!

jesus never claimed to be god. so me not believing jesus was god is not and affront to jesus.

reply to post by miriam0566


Satan's point of view absolutely has a lot to do with the reason why the Father keeps the date of the end a secret. I also gave you the scripture to back it up. Jesus was speaking specifically about that scenario when he mentioned the owner of the house.

The copy statement I made is an analogy. The analogy fits the reality, however.

Let's see... my brain moves my body by means of the nervous system. My God moves my Lord, Christ, by means of the Spirit.

Basically, if you were to tell me that you were not talking to my body, but only to my mind, I would have to tell you that you were crazy. You cannot communicate with my mind if it were not for my body.

Man cannot reach the Father without the Son.

The Father is the mind. The Son is the image which the mind has created for itself. In fact, the mind's first imagination was His Son!

Imagine if you will, if you have the ability, that you were just a mind with thought - but you had not imagined anything visual, audible, or felt anything. Your thoughts are in the form of emotion. Then, you imagine. Bam, you have form. You've created for yourself a vessel with which you can observe what you are imagining. The vessel recognizes itself as an extension,a creation. However, the consciousness of that vessel is that of you. You see through that vessel and yet you think to yourself, "Thank you for creating me."

Of course, you are not God. But that is the relationship that the Father and Christ have.