How Russia Is About to Dramatically Change the World

reply to post by poet1b

But do you realize that the current growth of the human population is not sustainable with or without oil?

That is new age idealism with little basis! The world will go on. Matter of fact the population will probably stabilize in 30 to 40 years for good reason. As living standards improve for example in India and China people tend to have fewer kids. It has already happened in Europe, Russia and the US.

Who says we are going to run out of oil? Countries are already making significant progress going to alternative energy sources. No reason to think this won't continue.

BTW I don't believe Europeans are too proud of the fact that their reproduction levels are down so far that the white European will be a minority in coming years!

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by really

 

But do you realize that the current growth of the human population is not sustainable with or without oil?

If we keep ignoring that oil is running out, and stay dependent on oil up to the very end, the end will be a very ugly thing indeed.

I think we would all be better off if the human population were to scale back a bit, and like in the first world nations, people only reproduced at a rate to sustain population, or better yet to slowly decline in population until we are at a more reasonable level.

Sadly, big oil has done everything in its power to make us completely dependent upon oil, and damn the consequences. This is the sad part.

I really have to disagree with you on this one. If as in America ---you develop a Super Power that is totally-- Yes, Totally loved by the entire world. How the hell do you loose that in fifty or sixty years?
You do not loose it ----It is taken. You know like Rome. Like America's true leader's.
Russia is giving cars to couples that produce Russian children. They want Russians in their country and commies out. God bless them. Americans were suckered into birth control over 50 years ago. I know, I was in training with a son of one of the inventors of the pill. Roe vs Wade did not happen by popular vote. The zero birth crap gave way to foreigners filling the BIO MASS holes left by the duped. The guests have not assimilated. Their loyalty mostly belongs to their country of origin. Hence , Latin-American, Asian- American, Jewish -American. Strange you don't hear a lot of Arab American. I guess they are taking care of them selves.
Any way birth control in America by Americans is just plain freakin STUPID.
oh! I mean by American- Americans.

Russia has always had the potential, but i do agree that the recent warming of relations between Russia and China will at some point shift the balance, what country or coalition would stand a chance againt a Russia/China coalition, militarily?

China has most likely always had plans to reclaim Taiwan, and i'm sure Russian interests would be served by reclaiming power over former soviet states, controlling the oil and gas to europe would give them this power.

should have been a quote















































[edit on 6-1-2010 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by la2
Russia has always had the potential, but i do agree that the recent warming of relations between Russia and China will at some point shift the balance, what country or coalition would stand a chance againt a Russia/China coalition, militarily?

There will not be a coalition between Russia and China in the foreseeable future, at least for so long as US scales down its aggressive foreign policy. Sure Russia is interested in good relations with China, because there is much to gain economically from it - for both sides. However there are certain key political differences between them that cannot be easily tossed aside, and right now any military alliance is out of the question.

And what would be the purpose of such military alliance? Both Russia and China are more than capable of defending themselves and exerting power should the need arise. The future of military cooperation between Russia and China really depends on the US foreign policy believe it or not. If the US continues to push its luck, and proceeds with expanding NATO, "liberating" countries which conveniently have more than a fair share of oil, and installing its missile shield bases around the world - then such coaliation could become a reality out of necessity.

In fact the aggressive policies and stance of the US under Bush, is what caused Russia to seek improved relations with China and to expand its military. It is all about cause and effect, and Russia's actions have for the most part been reactionary for the past several years. Don't want to see a Russia-China alliance? Then hope that US doesn't have any hostile plans for Iran. And halting unneeded expansion of NATO would help as well.

Originally posted by la2
China has most likely always had plans to reclaim Taiwan, and i'm sure Russian interests would be served by reclaiming power over former soviet states, controlling the oil and gas to europe would give them this power.

China doesn't need to reclaim Taiwan through military means. It will do it through economic and political means eventually. It sure as hell doesn't need Russia's help to do it.

And how do you suppose Russia's interests would be served by reclaiming power over the Soviet era states? What would it gain from it? Most of those countries have few resources, nationalistic attitudes among population, and are sinking under debt burdens. Russia has more than enough land, all the resources it needs for growth, and has enough economic problems to worry about for itself.

Forget the empire building days. Russia has far more to gain from building its economy and economic influence - that's where the real power today lies, not in having your tanks parade through someone's capital. And this is where Russia's oil and gas export strategy fits it. Russia is not so much trying to exercise political influence over anyone, as it is trying to insure that it has an uncompromised income stream from reliable customers in Western Europe and Asia.



Ultimately for the US, Russia is as much an enemy as the US wants it to be. If the US media and government choose to constantly portray it in a negative light, and the foreign policy is aimed at weakening Russia - then an enemy you shall have. If on the other hand the US comes to terms with Russia, and reconsiders its overly ambitious goals in certain foreign policy fields - then relations can be reconciled.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by maloy]

Originally posted by Donny 4 million

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by really

 

But do you realize that the current growth of the human population is not sustainable with or without oil?

If we keep ignoring that oil is running out, and stay dependent on oil up to the very end, the end will be a very ugly thing indeed.

I think we would all be better off if the human population were to scale back a bit, and like in the first world nations, people only reproduced at a rate to sustain population, or better yet to slowly decline in population until we are at a more reasonable level.

Sadly, big oil has done everything in its power to make us completely dependent upon oil, and damn the consequences. This is the sad part.

I really have to disagree with you on this one. If as in America ---you develop a Super Power that is totally-- Yes, Totally loved by the entire world. How the hell do you loose that in fifty or sixty years?
You do not loose it ----It is taken. You know like Rome. Like America's true leader's.
Russia is giving cars to couples that produce Russian children. They want Russians in their country and commies out. God bless them. Americans were suckered into birth control over 50 years ago. I know, I was in training with a son of one of the inventors of the pill. Roe vs Wade did not happen by popular vote. The zero birth crap gave way to foreigners filling the BIO MASS holes left by the duped. The guests have not assimilated. Their loyalty mostly belongs to their country of origin. Hence , Latin-American, Asian- American, Jewish -American. Strange you don't hear a lot of Arab American. I guess they are taking care of them selves.
Any way birth control in America by Americans is just plain freakin STUPID.
oh! I mean by American- Americans.

This is the most sense I have read in a while on this board.
Refreshing...and could not agree more.

reply to post by maloy


China and Russia have been under the sheets for so long it's like their married. Respectful old age marriage.
They lay in wait if anything.
Give me a noteable tiff in the last 20 years.
The last time I held a M16 I worried that I would come face to face with a guy from either one of those countries. Since then I have had neat conversation with folks here in the states that were lurking.
Just real folks.

PS The ending portion of your last post I must admit is my hopeful thinking.

[edit on 6-1-2010 by Donny 4 million]

This is scary to me.

It may be that pretty much all of my knowledge of Russia and the Russian government is from Hollywood, but i feel like Russia would be one of those "buy our stuff or we kill you!" type of exporters. That may sound ignorant to some, it certainly does to me, but i don't really know that much about russian business.

But what scares me, and this is just me thinking, is that is Russia becomes the worlds greatest exporter of oil, they'll have a stranglehold on oil companies, who, some think, are intentionally suppressing technology that would render oil obsolete. Meaning, alternative fuels would be served another big hit.

Again, i don't consider myself all that intelligent, and i already think i'm wrong. but still, it scares me.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
China and Russia have been under the sheets for so long it's like their married. Respectful old age marriage.

And how long would that be? Do you know about Damansky/Zhenbao island? Only 40 years ago Russia and China were ready to tear each other apart over a pathetic scrap of useless land. Relations may be good today, but the contentious nature of the two countries' pasts is still in people's minds. Relations between them are very complicated. Sure they can be allies if need be, but there are too many differences for any long term mutual alliance.

Just because they happened to have common interests when it came to dealing with the US during the Cold War, does not make them military allies today.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
They lay in wait if anything.

Lay in wait for what? To transact business with each other? Or do you think that they are going to gang up and invade Mongolia? Both China and Russia may be playing political games with the US, but it does not mean that they have a shared objective to achieve. Each of the large powers acts almost exclusively in their own interest.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
The last time I held a M16 I worried that I would come face to face with a guy from either one of those countries.

If US wouldn't have started or gotten involved in land wars in Asia against client states or partners of either of the two nations, such worries about inhospitable encounters wouldn't have had to take place.

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
Oil is needed for far more than just fuel/energy production.

Oil is the basis of our society's entire petrochemical industry, which includes not only much of our food processing and pharmacuetical industries, but also almost all of our plastics production and manufacturing..

And when you think about it, IF you think about it, light -weight plastics and the plastic-based, resin-dependent composites derived from plastics development, are central to the further development of a future based on efficient use of alternate energy sources.

You make an excellent point.


[edit on 7-1-2010 by OutShine]

Current Rome collapsing, next Rome enter stage right!

(cue Protoplasmic Traveler speech about how Rome still pulls the strings)

The USSR was never removed, it dissolved, just because you cant see the salt in the water doesnt mean it disappeared!

reply to post by ModernAcademia


I know this will incur hilarious laughter and backlash, but the controverial john titor predictions included Russia being the future number one trading partner with the US - after a nuclear exchange.

Without any future predictions, most would agree Russia's worst enemy now is their own internal corruption. They are poised to truly power the energy needs of the world as it transitions to green power - a much more immediate need.

Sadly if the US doesn't develop some incredible new green tech soon, this oil distribution infrastructure will make St. Petersburg the new Riyadh.

Originally posted by Ridhya
Current Rome collapsing, next Rome enter stage right!

(cue Protoplasmic Traveler speech about how Rome still pulls the strings)

The USSR was never removed, it dissolved, just because you cant see the salt in the water doesnt mean it disappeared!

Proto is quite a Historian it's true. I told him on another recent thread that I thought there was something unsettling about his way with words.
Be that as it may. I see Russia fairly healthy today because of it's purge of un -desirables.
Those that took the nation to their financial knees. They are doing it now in all the other Christain countries.
Look into Russian history and the Russians to understand this.

reply to post by maloy


Ah! One little Granada in forty years! I will check the conflict as you took the time to point it out.
Maybe they don't publish all their tiffs but forty years does prove my point. With a border that long and a culture clash that huge, I give them both a smiley face today.
Sure I may be over optimistic and naivete.
The best part is that Russia has returned religious freedom to it's people and it seems to me to be way less communistic. Sure China may forever remain Commie but I think we all can sees some softening from their direction also.
PS Lay in wait for the rest of the world to tear itself apart.
The pickins would be exceptional.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Donny 4 million]

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Donny 4 million]

Originally posted by David9176
This really explains why we have to return to a self dependent country. We have food....as we are the largest supplier of food in the world....which will always be far more important than oil.

The rest can be done on our own soil. There is NO REASON that we can't raise tariffs to increase manufacturing and productivity here and also help stave off our debt. We have to if we are going to get out of this rut. It's as simple as that. We cannot continue to borrow China's money to buy their products. It has to change.

I agree with you that we need to be more independant as a nation but there are reasons we cannot raise tarrifs. The chinese are buying up our debt so they tell US what to do. Period. If they stop buying our debt our little bubble goes BOOM.
Our productivity for growing food is impressive yet without oil we can't grow it. From fertilizer to pesticides to tractors to shipping produce all of it consumes oil which we have to get from somewhere. Which right now is everywhere BUT from the US (thank you Canada!)
Our reliance on monoculture farming and hybrid seed is going to bite us in the arse one day with massive crop failures even without weather intervening. We have also nearly tapped out our underground aquifers to boot.

This is important news but unfortunately the article doesnt even bother to tell us WHERE the pipline terminal is. DUH journalism is in deep doo doo I'm afraid.
I don't see danger in this really, it should help stabilize oil prices which would be helpful to the US. Whether they want to get all cozy with China or not is another matter. If those 2 countries wanted to they could pretty much take over the planet between their military and economic power.

It wil be interesting to see how this all plays out in the end.

Great thread S&F

As long as they dont have a tyrant in charge i say good.. it's about time there is another super power in the world again. Perhaps this will help free some of the brain washed americans and help lead our world back to balance..

As an american myself i can say this and not be hateful about it, im so sick of working day in and day out and getting no where...

reply to post by Blaine91555
Excellent post Blaine91555. A few months ago the same thing was said on a different forum I post on. It was said that the US wants to control the worlds oil supply, but to do that, we (the US) need to get the rest of the worlds oil supply "depleted" then we (again the US) holds all the cards. I've also heard and read that the earth continually makes new oil, so our worlds supply will never run out. Can you expound on this theory, as you have first hand knowledge? Thanks in advance. If that's not on topic, feel free to u2u me.

Don't you know?

The world's oil supply is already controlled by one group. They are just trying to figure out how to steal your money(keep you in slavery), and they already have a great plan of action, in operation.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Actually, the United States is not the top food exporter in any category, including meat, which is our main food product. We are a net importer of food, and have been growing increasingly dependent upon foreign nations for our food supplies over the last two decades.

The main export of the US is the worthless dollar and toxic-asset derivatives, which we try to push on the rest of the world like a denegerate drug pusher. And like most drug pushers, we may very well find ourselves, in the end, looking down the barrel of a smoking gun.

If Russia and the Asian pact nations team up against the US in time of war, they will largely be an unstoppable force. Russia will provide the oil and the producing Asian nations will provide the war machinery--tanks, planes, ships. etc. And if they need conscripts, they have countless billions of young men and women to draw upon.

We have been sold out, and our treasury bankrupted by corrupt politicians, catering to their "internationally-minded" corporate masters.

[edit on 7-1-2010 by Angiras]

Is anyone up on the EU vote and how all that mess figures into the equation?
The Czech were objecting last I heard.
Ireland was blackmailed into a yes.
Nothing on my searches?
How does the NWO or oldWO deal with China? Besides stiff them on loans?