Don't be fooled by ATS' professional debunkers

I'm not sure, but suggesting that we ignore all/any 'debunker' on the grounds they don't conform to your beliefs over 9/11 is more than a little far-fetched, even for the tin-foil hat crowd.


Actually, the internet is probably less of a threat now that you 'people' are here. I'm one of the pre-net denizens, the ones who never wanted you, or your ilk, here. The ones who had an Elysian Field of joy and happiness (despite the short-lived CDA) prior to your 'sort' arriving.

So let's have some fun now shall we? Justify your inclusion in the net. Justify your contribution, your worth on the net. Hopefully it's not your series of posts here: if they're anything like this one (bland, childish, seeking to strike out and make generalizations) then it's just not worth it.

Imagine a virtual world where age/sex/creed...nothing mattered except what you had upstairs- what you brought to the table, as it were. To be on the 'net' in those days you couldn't be a complete drooler. And sure, we had our share of tin-foil hat wearers: it's a fun game for everyone to play...till they grow up, then it's just pathetic. The difference is that our tin-foiled forefathers would never have made a ridiculous posting 'warning' the rest of the 'net' about someone.

I've been trying to figure out why a friend of mine loves this site- loves it so much she constantly links to it. Yet when I visit here daily all I see is paranoid tripe with no foundation, and an inaccurate regurgitation of remedial hearsay, and outright gossip/lies. Pro-tip: if you can't support your statement, don't make it.

Lame. Very lame. Grow up.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by Meesterjojo]

Greetings from one of the debunkers.

I've been on ATS for about a year, but read it for far longer.

I'm a skeptic, not a professional debunker. What I look for in a post is evidence and proof and some use of the scientific method.

What I see is almost always woefully inadequate, and this post is no different. This is one of those preaching to the converted posts.
To me, I don't find it at all surprising that the Feds were slow off the mark in responding to 9-11. I've read scholarly work on the towers and accept the argument that their collapse was caused by the high temp fires caused by jet fuel.

I do have some questions about WTC 7, but only thanks to the really smart posts from other members.

And I don't really get the whole pentagon argument, I've seen the stop motion video of the jet crashing into the building and I've never bought the missile argument.

The point in all this is that I debunk not because I'm some government stooge but because my purpose on the sight is to learn something and also to point out silliness.

I believe, based on logic and evidence that satisfies me, that 9/11 was an inside job. (The details are explained, sometimes over and over in other threads. They are beyond the scope of this thread.)

When I go over the debunkers I have encountered in this forum, I put them into several categories.

1. Newbies to the question who haven't done any research.

2. The sheeple, who can't conceive that their shepherds might be leading them to the abattoir, reassuring them all the way.

3. The strident patriots, who never let facts interfere with their belief system.

4. The technical experts on narrowly defined areas of discussion who don't understand the meaning of the term "preponderance of evidence" because they never look beyond their area of expertise.

5. The "jailhouse lawyers", slick and smarmy sophists, who would spot you a lead through a revolving door and still beat you to the other side.

6. Liars and ignoramuses who will say just about anything and then duck out of the thread or simply repeat themselves over and over. Their favorite lie? "That's been debunked."

7. Mischievous people who will insert themselves into a discussion just to "raise a little hell".

8. The chronically and constitutionally incredulous, who adopt an "I'm from Missouri, show me" attitude as a disguise for an inability to think. They like to ask for evidence but usually can't tell you what evidence would satisfy them. If George W. Bush went on national television and broadcast to the nation that "9/11 was an inside job", they wouldn't believe him. It's a mental thing.

Their grandchildren will probably believe that 9/11 was an inside job, but it will take at least two generations for that to be accepted by this sort of person as fact. They don't believe anything that hasn't been validated by their parents first and grandparents second. These people are just not good at that strange activity called "thinking".

9. Shills, amateur and professional. These are team players who just happen to have their lives, careers, financial security invested in the status quo.

10. The enablers. These are people who know the truth but don't want it uncovered because of the disruptions that will follow. They are like wives who cover for a relative who is a child molester, etc. See my thread, "Birds of a Different Feather". There is a sad kind of wisdom about these people. The phrase, "let's just move on", sums these people up.



[edit on 30-11-2009 by ipsedixit]

Originally posted by curious_soul

Originally posted by jthomas

Originally posted by curious_soul

Please everyone who may have a question concerning 911 stop acknowledging the people that use the word "truther". Using the word "truther" does not stregthen their arguement and it's a lame attempt at belittlement.

Too bad that ""Truthers" call themselves "Truthers." Actually, I prefer using the correct term: "9/11 Deniers."

And what about your term: "official story believer?"

You must be new at this.

No, i'm not new at this and you constantly being cute about the facts of 3,000 people who were murdered is repugnant.

You do understand that you "Truthers" owe the families of the victims of 9/11 one HUGE apology, don't you?

There is a truth movement and the MSM came up with the word "truthers" to describe them. I don't think i've seen one person use the term "OS believer." The term OS, yes.

With that statement, you just confirmed you are a newbie. DO catch up.

Originally posted by all4freedom
I don't know what happened on that day but I do know that the "official story" isn't the whole truth. If you believe what your told by the government then I have a bridge to sell you as well.

And you fell for the "Truther" canard that all we know about 9/11 came from the "government." Is it any wonder why you "Truthers" are all so confused and gullible?

the internet is a good source for truth and facts BECAUSE of the fact it cannot be controlled by one sinle govening body...but dont forget...the internet is as full of lies and bullsh*t as the newspapers and MSM...a big problem with the internet is you just dont know what to believe and what to ignore

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07
While I initially found the planted explosives theory hard to swallow, I now believe there is a lot of merit to it. Yes 2 planes crashed into the towers but it probably would not be enough to bring them down, especially with the fire retardant coating each floor had, so to be absolutely sure they went with explosives.

Why would the towers have to come down? You don't think it would be sufficient to have both towers burning for hours or days and people trapped and jumping out to have a traumatic effect on Americans? And have them remain standing as a reminder and symbol for however long it would take to either repair them or tear them down?

But how come nobody saw them plant explosives; No office workers during the day or late night cleaning crews? Were they paid to keep silent?

9/11 "Truthers" are famous for deluding themselves that there had to be "intent and means" to bring the towers down. It would be silly for any plotter to try to plant explosives and risk being exposed and caught, particularly when the towers did not need to come down to have an effect on Americans' collective psyche.

Its all very confusing and I am sure the government wanted it that way.

There is no evidence that the government had anything to do with 9/11. It remains a totally unsupported claim by "Truthers" who have invented the most complicated plot and sub plots to explain what they want to see.

Much like the plane that flew over the pentagon before a missle struck it.

And that is just one "Truther" claim that is silly on the face of it. Why use a plane to disguise a missile hit when the plane would do just fine - as two planes did in NYC. The energy imparted by AA77 is totally consistent with the damage at the Pentagon - it would be impossible to disguise that. No "Truther" has ever been able to explain why any "plotter" would have to go to the effort to "pretend" a Boeing 757 had to be disguised instead of just using the bloody jet to begin with.

9/11 "Truther" claims fall completely apart on the complete illogical nature of the "plot" they have to invent to make it seem the government was responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Is it any wonder why the 9/11 "Truth" Movement is a dismal failure after 8 years of twisting itself into a pretzel?

Originally posted by jthomas

What's funny about you 9/11 "Truthers" is you actually fall for the above nonsense that you were told and now believe it comes from your "gut instinct."

Debunkers don't have to do a thing except chuckle and shake their heads in amazement that 9/11 "Truthers" will believe anything other "Truthers" tell them like you did above.

And a long time ago people believed the 'experts' who said the world was flat until a 'crazy man' proved otherwise. Pity that proving things nowadays is hindered to the point of impossible by TPTB.

[edit on 30-11-2009 by ch1ldofthe70s]

[edit on 30-11-2009 by GlossomBoodchild]

Originally posted by Roid_Rage27
reply to post by jthomas

 

jthomas, Bonez threw back at you EXACTLY what you did to the TS. Don't try to spin what you did holds any water. The fact is you believe the OS because you choose to.

The fact that you have to use the canard of some imaginary "official story" gives you away as a gullible, illogical "Truther."

Truthers don't believe it because logically, scientifically and rationally it does not make sense.

You "Truthers" have yet to refute the massive evidence that converges on the irrefutable conclusion of what happened on 9/11. It is irrational for you to make claims that you cannot and will not support. Why in creation do you think you all invented the canard of the so-called "official story" to begin with? It is simply a strawman to hide the fact that you cannot deal with the evidence.

The truth is, many people from all walks of life don't believe it from local and foreign government reps, scientists, researchers, pilots, and architects just to name a few. Oh and celebrities too! (sarcasm).

Your beliefs are completely irrelevant. You are the ones making the claims. The burden of proof falls entirely on your shoulders to refute the evidence and support your claims.

To call Truther's ignorant is pretty foolish.

Not at all. The same applies to every other type of denier on the planet, Creationists, moon-landing deniers, round-earth deniers, and Holocaust Deniers. There is no difference in your tactics and methodologies.

People that are vastly superior to you in terms of credibility regarding just the pure physics and science of the whole event are calling the OS impossible.

Your chosen few have yet to refute the evidence. You can believe your own claims all you want but you have completely failed to convince rational people. The fact of 8 years of your failures stares at you directly and you shut your eyes to that truth.

You're jthomas on ATS. It's you vs. them. Who do you think wins that debate?

You actually think there is a debate? You simply make claims and assertions and cannot support them. We are here to remind you of what you actually have to do while you all run away from your responsibilities.

9/11 "Truth" is a farce. Wake up to that truth.

Why is Jthomas still posting? He has been DEBUNKED long ago!!!
Perhaps the people on here dont care what I have to say because I dont have a silly avatar..and am not really "active"...but I am not just random "troll".
Anyway..
I have also viewed all of the material concerning 9/11. I've read/viewed every "official" theory and every "conspiracy" theory, and I used to care about the "truth" concerning 9/11. But 8 years later...I have come to realize that the fact of the matter is....the truth will not come out. It all makes for an interesting debate, dont get me wrong...but it doesnt really matter in reference to the big picture. Governments lie and mistreat their people...FACT. Black-op/False-Flag operations have existed,exist to this day, and will exist indefinitely...FACT. Thats all you really need to know. (Debunkers and fact freaks: dont ask me for "proof") You all know its true. I think most of us on ATS understand that there have always been and always will be powerful, power hungry, money infested individuals/groups of people in this world who will stop at nothing to advance their agenda.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


so basically what you're saying is... people can easily and continually show how flawed your educated guesses are, and you're all mad and hurt about it so instead of questioning yourself, you in paranoid fashion instantly assume its someone out to get you. .. i see..

It's my experience that some people are too ready to jump on anyone who doesn't echo the conspiracy de jour. I suppose extreme paranoia is a given on sites like this. I wonder if some of those who are so quick to cry accusations of 'paid shill', 'professional debunker' etc, ever consider the origin of some of the die hard conspiracy theorists? I guess the answer is not often, because if you have a closed mind, there is only one side of the fence to be on.

reply to post by ipsedixit


I would add this

11. Those of us who live in the real world

reply to post by Swampfox46_1999

I think your number eleven is already covered in my list, but in the interest of amical relationships I'm happy for you to add that one too and put a big gold star beside it.

It's my professional opinion as one who thinks that thinking is overrated.

Everyone on ATS should listen to their hearts, that will tell them what is real and what isn't. No need to think, we can just feel. Given our amazing predictive power, we can rely on our hearts and spirituality to guide us successfully through life.

Long live the galactic federation of light.

Originally posted by AceWombat04

We. Don't. Know.

Actually, we do know, and we have the means and ability to know. And what we know is that no one has refuted the massive evidence from hundreds of independent sources and thousands of individuals that converge on the conclusion that Osama bin Laden was responsible for 9/11. And no one has been able after eight years to demonstrate anything to the contrary or that the "government" was behind 9/11.

Eventually, 9/11 "Truthers" are going to have to admit that fact and learn how to reason to understand why their claims and assertions are faulty, unsupported, and irrational.

Or they can remain exactly where they have been for the last 8 years, yelling from street corners, wondering why no one else sees their "truth."

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Originally posted by RipCurl
Minimal? nearly all the floors within WTC 7 was on fire. As described by several firefighters on scene, they called the building Fully engulfed in fire.

Yeah, here's the north face of WTC 7, with "nearly all the floors on fire" (ONE floor that appears to have been set):

In contrast, here's a high-rise fire in Madrid, Spain that burned for 10 hours and never collapsed:

As a matter of fact, no steel-framed high-rise building in history has ever collapsed due to fire.

So much for your honesty and credibility.

You do such a bang-up job discrediting your own 9/11 "Truth" Movement that its a wonder you haven't been accused of being a government disinfo agent yet.

Or maybe you understand how gullible your true believers really are, Golden Fleece.

Great post, star & flag for your views here.

It's not just 9/11 either.

Just saw this thread and had to reply. I STRONGLY agree with the comment about psychops because believe it or not our government considers it one of their more powerful weapons. I believe it is more then likely that there are govy employees people whose job it is to go on forums and debunk. Maybe I've seen it first hand, maybe not.

Another strong weapon for our government is the IGNORANCE of the American people in general. It scares me when I see how many people just believe anything they are told by our government. It seems as if people are afraid to think outside of the box. The reason? Some people don't have the ability to do so, and the ones that do which chose not to do so because they are happy with their BS comfy life and as long as their level of comfort is not screwed with, they will also blindly follow their leaders; whether they agree or not. The people on this website who DO think outside the box and refuse to believe the BS shoveled in our faces on a daily basis are unfortunately the minority in this country, and it doesn't look to be changing any time soon. Perfect example: I have a neighbor who actually believes that the USA doesn't possess military, intelligence or communications satellites because we are too broke as it is and our government wouldn't waste money on satellites when we have other problems that he thinks takes precedence. I don't know about you guys, but I find that SCARY ignorance, and he believes it with 100% of his heart. Scary.



[edit on 30-11-2009 by Imightknow]