Proposal would require all to have health coverage

Our delightful bureaucrats have to justify the AIG bail-out.
And they appear to be heading in that very direction.

Peace...

I have health care i go to the veteran hospital.

What i see under this mandatory coverage system is that the US will do just what Canada, England and Australia did.

When they went to a socialist system the first thing they did away with is there Veteran health care systems.

The problem is that most doctors outside the veterens health care system do not know how to treat many of the health problems caused by military service.

Especially PTSD and the Stress Related psychiatric disorders.
regular hospitals will just dump these people on the street like they do now.

www.quarterback.leatherneck.com...

reply to post by king9072

Whoaa dude,
I usually look forward to reading my friends posts, but I think you missed the mark on this one.

There certainly are good elements of socialized healthcare. This proposal is not really socialised healthcare. This proposal simply FORCES everyone to carry health insurance, and the government is going to help the poor by subsidising the cost.

What really bothers me is the idea of not having a choice.
AND
This plan does nothing to address the real healthcare problem INFLATED COST. The cost of healthcare is out of control and this plan only uses government money to fuel that fire while forcing the people and employers to cover the rest. In the end it will further hurt workers wages.

Socialized schools, ok?
Socialized police, ok?
Socialized fire departments, ok?
Socialized libraries, ok?

Health insurance is something that the individual has to go out and would be required to obtain.

How any of you can defend your medical system when HALF OF ALL BANKRUPTCY'S IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA ARE DUE TO HEALTH CARE COSTS

Exactly the point. It's the overinflated cost that is the problem, and this plan basically allows it to countinue, and in my opinion even serves to conceal the greed of the healthcare/insurance machine

I did read the plan. Am I missing something? (real question)

How 'bout NO?

How 'bout I don't believe or trust in western pharmaceutical companies, and I prefer to let nature run its course for anything that requires stronger medicine than what I can get over-the-counter? How 'bout if I get a broken bone, I'll hold whoever is at fault responsible and make them foot the bill - be it myself or another individual? How 'bout any dumb, stupid cop that tries to arrest me for not having insurance is going to be the one in need of health care?

How 'bout them apples, Adolf Obama?

Massachusetts has been doing this for the last couple years. It really is robbery. If you can't prove that you have insurance, you can get fined(A friend of a friend got fined $900 in MA!). If the government is going to force Americans' to get health insurance, it should be payed for with the high taxes we are already paying, not in addition.

Asking someone who is unemployed/part-time/self-employed to pay for health insurance on top of all their other expenses is just wrong. And then to fine them is just a kick in the groin. As the number of unemployed in the country rises every day, I'm sure many here know people that just can't afford health care right now. It's sad really, but unfortunately it's what you get in the "Land of the Free".

Don't confuse this for socialized health care either, this is just another way for insurance companies to line their pockets. There's a great untapped market for them out there, and this bill would help them reach that demographic.

We really do need a better health care system in this country, but this bill is not the way. Too many people in this country are forced to think more about money than their health, which is wrong.

One problem with socialized (anything, but specifically) medicine is that you eventually run out of other people's money. Canada is now trying to sue tobacco manufacturers because they can't afford their program (thread)

Another problem is that nothing from the government comes without strings attached. Socialized medicine is the proverbial carrot-on-a-stick. If we pursue it, the government will, slowly but surely, use it as an excuse to invade every facet of our lives. That's what they want anyway, this is just a ploy to make you give them your consent. They need the sanction of the victim to violate his Constitutional rights.


TA

Edit: Here is an example of what i'm talking about.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by TheAssociate]

This plan is not socialized medicine.

This plan is to make the Health Insurance Companies and Healthcare system in general more money. Add to that the government wanting to now Tax these "benefits" and you'll see an additional reason why they want to do it. Make healthcare mandatory and you not only increase the revenue to the Insurance Companies and Healthcare facilities you also increase taxes to the government.

I just did a search for healthcare coverage. I don't currently have health insurance and don't plan on getting it any time soon. My reasons? I'm a fairly healthy individual who very rarely gets sick enough to have to go to the doctor. If I do have to go the doctor I pay cash for my visit and my prescriptions.

The deductibles on the health insurance quotes I got range from $500 - $5000. If I have to go to the doctor once a year it costs me about $120 + prescription (average $25) for a total of $145. If I had health insurance (even from the cheapest quote I got) I would have to pay $76.64 per month with a $5000 deductible. How does paying this kind of money make sense?

So what should I do? Pay $76.64 per month for however many years in the off chance that something bad is going to happen to me? That's almost $1000 per year. The only way the insurance deductible would get paid is if something bad happened to me.

Now take that $1000 and multiply it by a conservative figure of 200 million and how much money goes to the insurance companies? That's right .... 200 TRILLION dollars. Even with an extremely minimal tax of only 1% that's an additional 2 billion dollars in tax money.

Thanks but no thanks. I'd rather take my chances.

Originally posted by MysterE

Originally posted by king9072
From every facet of your life you guys have been face humped, and enjoyed every bit of it, spewing ignorant, american 'patriotism', defending the crooks that ruin your lives, and rape your wallets.

Where are you from? Do you have first hand expierence on what it is like to be an American, or are you mad that our country is far better then yours? Even though we have had the bottom of the barrel of presidents in the last 20 years, I'm sure its a better place then where you are. You are obviously a very angry person.. who knows maybe it is because you havn't tasted the sugar of sweet lady freedom.. Well I have, and I won't let it slip away!
-E-

Hahah, actually I am from Vancouver, Canada, which is literally one of the freest places that remains on earth. We have lower crime, FREE health care, less pollution, and our police state is only a fraction of what yours is. Furthermore, we have better education, a far smaller prison population, and I am lucky enough to be able to surf, snowboard, go to a lake, or hike a mountain only hours apart in distance.

- My country has never massacred 3000 of its own people.
- My country has never charged me for getting health care I needed
- My country has never assasinated one of its prime ministers
- My coutnry has never launched an illegal war and sent hundreds of thousands of our soldiers off to fight, though we have tagged along with big ol' USSA.
- People in my province do not work for under 8$ an hour
- My country has never done something so ridiculous as deregulating electricity (Check out Enron:The smartest men in the room)
- My country, though it tries sometimes, does not rape my face and my wallet at every single turn as it is in the US
- My police, though they are immigrant murdering goofs, aren't as far into the police state mentality that are americans
- Terrorists in my government don't attack it's people, whether its a federal building filled with women and children, or sky rises with thousands of people
- Theres almost no where I would worry about letting my kids walk around, as we have a much safer society
- There aren't 2.3 million kids in my country who are growing up with 1 or more parents in prison1
- My country also doesn't imprison millions of its population
- My country won't ruin both my life and my families life by throwing me in prison for something so trivial as marijuana

List is endless really. And best of all, I live within a 20 minute drive from the good ol USSA, I have been there hundreds of times in my life, so yes, I do have first hand experience of the cess pool you call society.

To think that I would rather live in the USA, is not only arrogant but the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. Do you think people actually envy your country? They don't, well, that's not true, maybe Ethiopians possibly, but no, Canadians do not envy the US what so ever.

Now I appreciate everyone so politely telling me that the way I wrote my posts doesn't get my point across, thanks, but why tell me not to attack then turn around and attack me? Kind of failing to practice what you preach isn't it?

Back on topic, and to your question, HOW WOULD WE PAY FOR IT?

Well, I don't know, your country spends trillions bailing out millionaires on walstreet, do you ever wonder how much health care could be bought for 1 trillion dollars? Have a look at what one trillion dollars looks like.


Additionally, do you just assume that Canada, Britain and France don't live on planet earth? We pay for it, and we still have great lives and reasonable taxes. So don't make statements as if they are impossibilities, cause the concept isn't, it's being demonstrated around the globe with great results FOR THE AVERAGE CITIZEN.

Your country is about making profit, and it ALWAYS comes at the expense of the little man on campus, and guess what, MOST PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ARE THE LITTLE MAN.

Have you ever stopped a minute to find out why you guys have your current health care? It's cause of Nixon, and his philosophy was LESS CARE, MORE PROFIT.



[edit on 14-5-2009 by king9072]

reply to post by king9072


Do they have anger management medical care for free in Canada? If so, I would recomend some, ehh

Please keep your hatred for America to yourself
-E-

P.S. You can talk about how great Canada is on this thread
Is CANADA a 2nd rate country?
But this thread is about government mandated health care, paid for by the American people.

[edit on 14-5-2009 by MysterE]

Originally posted by MysterE


Please keep your hatred for America to yourself
-E-

He's not hating on America, he's bringing up good points.

It's pretty sad that we have allowed the media to brainwash us into thinking socialism is the ultimate evil, and we are all suffering because of it. Now, instead of getting rid of the private insurers, the government is going to force us to buy their crappy, overpriced coverage. They will still refuse procedures, they will still hike up prices, and best of all, you'll get fined if you decide not to put up with it.

This is a terrible idea, I can't believe that this is the best they could come up with. It's patently obvious that everyone in Washington is taking kick-backs on this, because there is no legitimate reason to keep private insurance if we're going to make healthcare universal.

What we need is a socialized system, that collects through taxes. That way we don't have to keep paying the (essentially criminal) insurance companies. We don't need 3rd parties profiting off of healthcare. It's inefficient, and it ends up hurting everyone.

The problem with healthcare nowadays in the US is it does nothing to promote individual accountability or responsbility. If you're not footing the bill what incentive is it to take care of yourself? Socialized medicine will make it worse. I go to the MD once a year for a physical. I take very good care of myself i.e. eat right, don't smoke, don't drink much, exercise and am in good shape. Why the hell should I pay for those less responsible with their health? The problem is there is too much government involved in healthcare. We need a free market system of healthcare. Look at SimpleCare in Seattle as an example. Government can't run anything efficiently. Look at medicare. It's a damn joke.

Originally posted by king9072

Well it's plain to see that your country is absolutely #ed, you guys are the most central victims of the largest ponzi scheme in humanities history, its called the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

From every facet of your life you guys have been face humped, and enjoyed every bit of it, spewing ignorant, american 'patriotism', defending the crooks that ruin your lives, and rape your wallets.

You acknowledge that our government is activally engaged in destroying it's citizenry and you want us to trust them to roll out a centralized medical system?

I think we might be better off with no government at all.

I appreciate your passion though.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by In nothing we trust]

Originally posted by Zosynspiracy Government can't run anything efficiently. Look at medicare. It's a damn joke.

Medicare is far from perfect but there are millions of elderly Americans that payed taxes all their life for this government program and are alive because of it. Now they receive medicine they could'nt otherwise afford and receive medical care.
Ask them if they think medicare is a joke. Ask my mother.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by whaaa]

Originally posted by MysterE
reply to post by king9072

 

Do they have anger management medical care for free in Canada? If so, I would recomend some, ehh

Please keep your hatred for America to yourself
-E-

P.S. You can talk about how great Canada is on this thread
Is CANADA a 2nd rate country?
But this thread is about government mandated health care, paid for by the American people.
[edit on 14-5-2009 by MysterE]

Hey, we are discussing, and I did discuss your question, you just did not want to bother reading what I had said, likely cause everything I said prior to that went against your beliefs. It's too bad your afraid to change your opinion on something just because your pride is in the way. Enjoy your bubble, and your fascist police state.

On a side note, you're right I don't trust your government to roll out a proper health care system, socialized or otherwise, but it doesn't change the fact that socialized medicine is much better for the average person in every country in which it is standard. You can use whatever theory and propaganda to debate what you think will happen in the US, but the fact are clear around the world.

Enjoy your ignorance!

Ok, my health care bills average 15k a year. I have a 5,000 deductible.

Here is my worry. This passes, and companies find it is cheaper to pay into
the government health care system than offer private insurance.

I have a lot of doctors that are specialty and it took me years to find the rite ones.

Now, the companies drop our insurance . We have to take the governments.
I have to drop my current doctors that I have with my PPO, and go where they tell me. I will probably still be paying the same amount, and now have no freedom to just walk into my specialist without seeing a regular doctor which will have a longer wait time.

I can still see my docs if I pay for it myself. Who can afford that? Now I will have government dictating to doctors what treatment I may have.

I am disabled but I have never claimed with the state, are they now going to make me goto work even though I am unable to, to pay this God forbid something happened to my husband? What if they say I can work and I KNOW I can not. Will it be like trying to get social security? Maybe they will put me in jail because I can not pay the fines, or work but they say I can.

This is opening up a big can of worms. I already fall through the system with regular insurance. I am allergic to all antibiotics and have to be hospitalized for a kidney infection or anytime I need antinbiotcs, but the insurance companies will not admit me. I almost died as a result of this from a kidney infection! All because there are no provisions for those who do not fit a normal profile with special conditions. I was sent home. Doc knew I needed to be in, but was not allowed to admit me, because insurance denied it as this is something a normal person can be sent home with some Cipro.
I ended up back in there by ambulance with seizures it got so bad , only then would they admit me.

It will only be worse with government in charge and I will loose all my doctors who know of my conditions . I had to goto an allergist to get proof of my allergies and have to carry in my purse to be submitted to insurance should anything happen. I will now loose that allergist too.

I have lived over seas where there is social health care, but I had to pay.
A doctors visit for me as an American they charged me 100 pounds, or at that time in 1987, was 200 bucks to walk in the door. It was not cheap.

I want my choice of health care. Our system sucks, but this is not the answer.
There are many reasons the costs are so high now. Illegal people that bring their kids in the ER every time they have a cold, not enough competition,
overcharging to pay for people who can not. Maybe if they charged decent prices, people could pay their bills.

I'd like to know how they are going to force people to carry health coverage Will it be a crime not to have health insurance, can you be imprisoned if you refuse ?

I've been unemployed for over a year now, with no health coverage how do they think people like myself can afford health coverage ? Even when i was working and paid for health insurance it didn't do me any good, i couldn't afford the co payments and i sure as hell couldn't afford the medications !

Individuals would be required to get coverage, either through an employer or government plan, or on their own. Employers would be required to provide coverage or pay the government a percentage of payroll.

I don't like the way that sounds. Sounds like they're saying that employers would easily be let off the hook by simply choosing to give the government money and thereby forcing us to obtain goverment health coverage.

For example, while there appears to be support in the Senate for requiring individuals to get coverage, an employer requirement might not get through.

Of course ! They say it right off the bat they'll pass a bill requiring individuals to get coverage, but not corporations, like always the little man gets screwed !!! And people wonder why we oppose this !

news.yahoo.com...

Kinda like mandatory car insurance if i don't have it i lose my plates and can't drive, but i've had a car totaled by an uninsured drunk driver and he got away with it, never paid me a dime for my car mandatory car insurance has nothing to do with us it has to do with a deal our government struck up with the insurance companies, it benefits them, not us !

Originally posted by chise61
I'd like to know how they are going to force people to carry health coverage

Will it be a crime not to have health insurance, can you be imprisoned if you refuse ?

If the government thinks health coverage is such a great idea they should just have the federal reserve print up a few hundred trillion dollars and pay for free coverage for everyone.

This whole universal health coverage scam is just another way for them to control and exterminate the weak and the poor using mandatory vaccinations (Containing poison) to stop the spread of over-hyped diseases like swine (pork) flu.

Me and mine will forego the exspense of a broken healthcare system and invest in guns and ammo instead, to overthrow the occupying forces who are in control of our country.

We require the immediate assistance of foriegn powers to supply us. Divided we fall, prey upon it. Send us what we need.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by In nothing we trust]

I hate to tell you Europeans and Canadians this but your governments CANNOT afford socialized healthcare. It's just too damn expensive. It's bankrupting most of the programs in countries that have it.

Healthcare is like any other product at the mercy of supply and demand. There are two ways to increase healthcare for all....increase the supply i.e. more hospitals, more doctors, more nurses, more technology, more medicines, and decrease the demand i.e. promote prevention and demanding people take more responsibility for their health and kicking out the 20 million + illegals that mooch of the system. Government is the antithesis to both of those means of expanding and increasing healthcare. The healthcare proposal is all about spreading the risk among the population. Well screw that I'm a healthy 29 year old who takes the utmost care when it comes to my health. Unlike other people who are overweight, out of shape etc.

For those children with the rare genetic disease and those who truly cannot afford it there will always be a safety net. But government ruins everything it touches..........education, agriculture, the economy, medicare, social security etc. There is no way in hell we can guarantee equal access and equal quality to everyone. That's like saying everyone in American can afford to drive a BMW. Aint gonna happen! College tuition is a perfect example. Federal loans has created all this easy money for higher education it has inflated the cost of college out of the hands of most middle class Americans.

reply to post by king9072


What i don't understand is why you are so extremely angry that there are Americans that don't want this health coverage Does it affect you personally what we do or don't want in our country, what we do or don't want to be forced to do, what we are or are not willing to pay even more tax dollars for ?

I mean it's not like we're trying to make you or anybody else give up their health care system, we're just saying that we don't want any part of what they want to ram down our throats. It is our right after all to say what we do or don't want in our own country is it not ? We are not saying that Canada or England, or France should not have it, just that we don't want it so who are you to try and tell us that we should accept it ?

Geesh you post on here and break i don't know how many T&C's calling us idiots and ignorant, ranting and raving as if we've personally insulted you You put down our country and call us idiots for showing patriotism to our country. I am patriotic to my country NOT my government get it straight ! And there are many of us here that do not believe the "official" story on 911 If you have such a problem with this "cesspool" then don't visit, see how easy problem solved

I think maybe you should take a look at this ... www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now do you have anything to actually say about the topic of this thread, or did you just stop by to bash America and Americans

reply to post by MysterE


If your worried about socialized healthcare, then I suggest you watch Micheal Moore's 'Sicko' movie. Government control is far from the hideous monster you're making it out to be. In fact, people in countries with socialized healthcare live much healthier and longer lives than Americans.

Geez, even Cubans have got it better than you guys! Wake up! All your current health system does is furnish the pockets of the corporations and the elite.

However, if you want it that way... go for it! Just pray you don't get ill!

You already have socialized services in the states such as the fire brigade. Bloody awful huh. It's a wonder those commies aren't just letting your houses burn down! Well... that's what they used to do when it wasn't socialized in America. Short memories I tell ya!

IRM

[edit on 15/5/09 by InfaRedMan]