Barak Obama discloses Bush 'torture' methods including use of insects

Barak Obama discloses Bush 'torture' methods including use of insects

www.telegraph.co.uk

Certain aspects of the documents are redacted – including the names of CIA officials – but the four memos written by Bush lawyers as a guideline for interrogators offer an unprecedented look inside the methods used as the perpetrators of 9/11 and their cohorts were hunted

(visit the link for the full news article)

Obama released 'torture' techniques used by the Bush administration in order to avoid ' inaccurate accounts'. It seems alot of study went into these methods, as to where they would fall just short of being officialy called torture. The video in the article depicting waterboarding is disturbing. How such a method is not classified as torture is beyond me.

www.telegraph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

It's not classified as torture because it causes only immediate pain and no short or long term negative effects. I read that article and I got to say the torture methods in there are EXTREMELY lame. Pull someone into a flexible wall? Put in a caterpillar in a box? Having them be naked? Have you seen the videos of jihadists hacking off the heads of prisoners with a dull machette? Wow. Some people need to step back into reality.

Originally posted by jjkenobi
It's not classified as torture because it causes only immediate pain and no short or long term negative effects. I read that article and I got to say the torture methods in there are EXTREMELY lame. Pull someone into a flexible wall? Put in a caterpillar in a box? Having them be naked? Have you seen the videos of jihadists hacking off the heads of prisoners with a dull machette? Wow. Some people need to step back into reality.

Nice

I thought that terrorists are lawless bunch of crazy suicidal criminals with religious nut flavor added and that we are as the most powerful beacon of freedom, human rights and equality and that we do not break our own and international LAWS, but, I guess, that is simply just not the case...

I was tortured some 17 years ago (as a POW), and to tell you what, as much as I do not like to remember it I also do not like people telling me that it did not really hurt me and the pain was only physical and temporary.

Two 75% damaged disks (and few other serious issues I would not like to talk about here) in my spine are legacy to that and some 10 years of inner struggle of dealing with the horror of it and participation in the war itself...

Torture is wrong, no matter how you slice it, changing very definition of it does not change how those who are tortured feel about it

Listen kids, torturing people is BAD m'kay?

The video of waterboarding set me on edge, I can't imagine being subjected to that, not to mention other methods like electrocution. But the use of humiliation and degredation i figure is just as bad. Being forced to scrabble around naked and make man-pyramids (like at Abu-Ghraib), and having the Qur'an urinated on before your eyes is most likely massively dishonourable and mortifying for Muslims. The fact that the TORTURERS are so incredibly disrespectful makes me mad! A lot of these men were probably just in the wrong place at the wrong time, and taken in under some jumped up conjecture...

5thElement:

I was tortured some 17 years ago (as a POW), and to tell you what, as much as I do not like to remember it I also do not like people telling me that it did not really hurt me and the pain was only physical and temporary. Two 75% damaged disks (and few other serious issues I would not like to talk about here) in my spine are legacy to that and some 10 years of inner struggle of dealing with the horror of it and participation in the war itself... Torture is wrong, no matter how you slice it, changing very definition of it does not change how those who are tortured feel about it

Sounds like you went through hell buddy, so sorry to hear that...
But it's good to have a first hand account to bat off those who say 'meh, torture's a walk in the park...'

reply to post by L.HAMILTON


Am I the only one who thinks it's worse that he's released this information and said that no one will face punishment, than if he hadn't released it at all?

Those taking orders shouldn't necessarily face charges based on what they were told to do (this would change if they acted beyond the remit of said instructions though), but those who ordered this abhorrent behavior should be punished.

And Obama has really disappointed me on this, it's like he's done it simply because he "had to" and has no intention of actually DOING ANYTHING about it.

Obama is sending a clear signal that it's OK for those in senior positions to do such things, and that they shouldn't be punished for it because of their position.

I did have hope when Obama was elected, unfortunately, he is indeed just another politician with just a very slightly higher degree of moral standing than Bush.

Let's not forget that the information obtained by tortured suspects is largely unreliable since people will say anything they can to stop from being tortured. That's the whole point of it.

Not to mention that it goes against the spirit of the bill of rights, geneva conventions, and the UN declaration of human rights.

I believe that these methods were nothing compared with what was actualy going on there. Like in all seriousness , do you think they would use an insect in a box and flexible walls as the real torture? ..those were probably just warm-ups

reply to post by Fatality
True , I believe that there were far worse methods used . The article didn't delve into the use of insects or the flexible wall that much. But just a daily dose of waterboarding coupled with sleep depravation and on a 900 calorie a day diet would be enough to brake anybody after a period of time.

posted on 17-4-2009 at 02:58 PM
I believe that these methods were nothing compared with what was actualy going on there. Like in all seriousness , do you think they would use an insect in a box and flexible walls as the real torture? ..those were probably just warm-ups

I strongley believe that! that article was referred back to 2005 and the 7/11 and capturing of culprits. After all those people dying do you really think that the US Goverment were so lenient and patient in their torture techniques that they named one "snowboarding, and the stress postion," The US were dealing with professoinal terriosts who would blow you up and themselves without a thought.

All Barack Abama is trying to do is play into the publics society eye, making Bush seem like a decent gentle guy who shares the same qualities and like mind he has. Who the hell is Obama fooling but himself playing down the troubles Bush caused while in rule as if they were harmless torture techniques over anaylised by the world, what next the necular mushroom bomb that went off in Japan 1945 was just fart gas.
Make the peace Obama tell the world of your illusion and dreams and back to the 60's we go, dont let the front door hit you in assss!

reply to post by jjkenobi

I read that article and I got to say the torture methods in there are EXTREMELY lame. Pull someone into a flexible wall? Put in a caterpillar in a box? Having them be naked?

Yeah... that's known as the TIP OF THE ICEBERG.

Case in point: the Afghani taxi driver known as Dilawar who died at Bagram Air base in 2002, in mysterious circumstances to say the least.

The military coroner testified he died as a result of "blunt-force injuries to the lower extremities."

Basically his legs had been stomped, kicked and physically beaten so much they had become "pulpified" which caused massive internal bleeding, so much so, that a blood clot formed which travelled to his heart and killed him.
See Here

Still think torture's cute sunshine?

Get a grip. Like they're going to willingly disclose their most ethically questionable or reprehensible interrogation methods to the public.

[edit on 17/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Waterboarding IS torture, and Obama, if he's letting off those who performed it MUST at the very least be prepared to prosecute those who ORDERED it ie: Cheney and Bush, and of those two at the very LEAST, arrest and try Dick Cheney for war crimes. You cannot admit to having tortured without prosecuting for war crimes.

Cheney and Bush are on record regarding their authorization of these techniques while denying that they fell into the legal definition of torture, and were neccessary to protect the American people.

And most here know about the problems with the 9/11 story, and about Cheney's involvement in the entire war on terror policy and first cause...

ARREST DICK CHENEY!

There's no other way to restore the moral authority of the USA. And what a wonderful signal it would send..

[edit on 17-4-2009 by OmegaPoint]

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Still think torture's cute sunshine?

Get a grip. Like they're going to willingly disclose their most ethically questionable or reprehensible interrogation methods to the public.

Yeah, like the torture that US Soldiers underwent after captured by AQ in Iraq.

I'm willing to bet they'd rather have been put in a box with insects than what they went thru. The were tortured, mutilated, then executed.

That doesn't get covered too much on ATS, tho.

reply to post by jerico65


Yawn.

The "everyone else is doing it" excuse huh? I was waiting for someone to chime in with that.

So because Al-Qaeda and Sunni extremists behave like monsters the US can just disregard all of it's high & mighty notions about constitutional freedoms (that they supposedly hate us for) and the right to due process/fair trail/habeas corpus and start behaving like them too?

Great. Wonderful. How about we just tear up the constitution all together while we're at it, since Al-Qaeda doesn't have one either and it just hinders on our ability to destroy them?

What's next do we start creating our own suicide bomber corps. and beheading Iraqi insurgents on CNN too? How many backward steps do you want to take?

"In order to defeat a monster, one must be careful not to become the monster he seeks to vanquish."

[edit on 17/4/09 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by 5thElement

Originally posted by jjkenobi
It's not classified as torture because it causes only immediate pain and no short or long term negative effects. I read that article and I got to say the torture methods in there are EXTREMELY lame. Pull someone into a flexible wall? Put in a caterpillar in a box? Having them be naked? Have you seen the videos of jihadists hacking off the heads of prisoners with a dull machette? Wow. Some people need to step back into reality.

Nice

I thought that terrorists are lawless bunch of crazy suicidal criminals with religious nut flavor added and that we are as the most powerful beacon of freedom, human rights and equality and that we do not break our own and international LAWS, but, I guess, that is simply just not the case...

I was tortured some 17 years ago (as a POW), and to tell you what, as much as I do not like to remember it I also do not like people telling me that it did not really hurt me and the pain was only physical and temporary.

Two 75% damaged disks (and few other serious issues I would not like to talk about here) in my spine are legacy to that and some 10 years of inner struggle of dealing with the horror of it and participation in the war itself...

Torture is wrong, no matter how you slice it, changing very definition of it does not change how those who are tortured feel about it

You were a POW in 1992?

The interrogation tactics as described in the release did not cause permanent, lasting damage yet you compare it to your own permanent damage. Had you been water-boarded or scared by a caterpiller in a box you wouldn't have permanent damage.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

Yawn.

The "everyone else is doing it" excuse huh? I was waiting for someone to chime in with that.

Yeah, sorry that tortured and executed US Soldiers are such a bore to you. How come you're not up in arms over their deaths? I don't think that AQ was worried about the Constitution rights and whatnot.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
So because Al-Qaeda and Sunni extremists behave like monsters the US can just disregard all of it's high & mighty notions about constitutional freedoms (that they supposedly hate us for) and the right to due process/fair trail/habeas corpus and start behaving like them too?

Last I checked, AQ and Sunni extremists don't have any rights at all under the US Constitution and habeas corpus, since they aren't US citizens.

I don't think that torture is right, but what was described in that memo was the same crap that I underwent in SERE school. It's not torture, it's "stress inducing".

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Great. Wonderful. How about we just tear up the constitution all together while we're at it, since Al-Qaeda doesn't have one either and it just hinders on our ability to destroy them?.

Ease up on the hyperbole. We can destroy them just as easy and still keep the Constitution.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
What's next do we start creating our own suicide bomber corps. and beheading Iraqi insurgents on CNN too? How many backward steps do you want to take?.

Looking to volunteer for that corps?

(edited for my crappy spelling)




[edit on 17-4-2009 by jerico65]

Originally posted by L.HAMILTON


Obama released 'torture' techniques used by the Bush administration in order to avoid ' inaccurate accounts'. It seems alot of study went into these methods, as to where they would fall just short of being officialy called torture. The video in the article depicting waterboarding is disturbing. How such a method is not classified as torture is beyond me.

At the very MOST, waterboarding is Psychological Torture. Those who implement it are well trained in the methods involved, and it is most certainly and unequivocally within their best interest to not allow any harm to come to the recipient of such.

I must also say, seriously, when we have Terrorists and nutjob fundamentalists slicing and sawing the heads off of captured allies, how in any shape, form, or fashion do any of the methods presented here represent true torture? One of the methods involved placing a caterpillar into the cell of a Terrorist afraid of bugs, lol, how hilarious is that? That is creative, and it actually WORKED!

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

Yawn.

The "everyone else is doing it" excuse huh? I was waiting for someone to chime in with that.

Yeah, sorry that tortured and executed US Soldiers are such a bore to you. How come you're not up in arms over their deaths? I don't think that AQ was worried about the Constitution rights and whatnot.

Same old crap if they do so can we. Just don't preach anymore BS about America having the high moral ground, you don't. Then again America has been torturing prisoners for decades, WWII, Korea, Vietnam and all those nasty little wars which are kept hidden and forgotten.

War with NICE RULES is insane. Torture SHOULD be part of WAR! War should not be pretty. War should be as UGLY and as HORRIBLE as possible. If this were the case, maybe there would be fewer wars and far few people willing to fight them wars when their LEEEEEEEADERS declare them. I don't have any problem with torturing some ass that was hell bent on killing me. Heck, anyone that has any desire to kill me best be warned that if I capture them alive, I will make them regret the day they were born. The possibility of torture should be a deterrent when deciding to war. If there are creeps out there that want to KILL US, I say torture them repeatedly until they change their mind and ways!!!! Worrying about torturing those that want to KILL us is crazy.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
At the very MOST, waterboarding is Psychological Torture. Those who implement it are well trained in the methods involved, and it is most certainly and unequivocally within their best interest to not allow any harm to come to the recipient of such.

Ever been waterboarded ? Didn't think so. Therefore you opinion has no relevenance and is quite ridiculous.

I must also say, seriously, when we have Terrorists and nutjob fundamentalists slicing and sawing the heads off of captured allies, how in any shape, form, or fashion do any of the methods presented here represent true torture? One of the methods involved placing a caterpillar into the cell of a Terrorist afraid of bugs, lol, how hilarious is that? That is creative, and it actually WORKED!

How is sawing someones head off torture, they are dead in a few seconds ? Just another form of execution. no different from American soldiers gut shooting people in Iraq