On Parallel Universes

reply to post by jkrog08


I could think of several alternative explainations, none of which including such a mysterious super substance. But that would remove the Big Bang and another clung to origin story and casting us back into the big bad "We just don't know.".

[edit on 6-4-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


I agree,in reality we don't know 20% of what really is out there.Just look at our crazy theories and ways we explain them(like m-theory,superstring theory,etc)............oh and you want a mind bender try good ole' relativity.I think that is harder to understand than quantum theory sometimes!

These are loose speculations into realities that are not easy to grasp and resemble the attempts of the ancient thinkers to uncover the influences that turned their world the way they did.

There are certain avenues that science drives along and these speculations are an ocassional detour. But the "kitchen wisdom" tells you that there maybe something called "space," which may be home to other universes independent of ours. But the origin of that space could hardly be some Super Big Bang. Space is a void made of absolutely nothing where something materialized over a time period that approaches infinity. If you solve the origin of abstract Nothing it can help you to understand the origin of physical Nothing and the transformation of Nothing into Something.

What is the origin of Nothing?

Abstract Nothing doesn't have origin, coz if it did, it would be Something. But Something cannot exist indefinitely in any form only when it enters Nothing. But since Nothing doesn't have an origin and is therefore Something, then Something1 interacts with Something2 with a loss of energy and that means Something1 & Something2 = Nothing. It follows that the origin of physical Nothing WAS Something.





[edit on 4/6/2009 by stander]

reply to post by stander


What is the origin of Nothing?

thats the point the nothing is infact a something!!!

0 may be a nothing but it has a value.. thats the point

so the 0 plays a part in what? a line of something..

if one is stuck in infinity the nothing is the question.. ; )

great post, the reading was pretty cool.
However, can't one of those theories be wrong, and, therefore, making all of the others collapse in a chain-reaction of cosmic proportions?

Dark energy is thought to make up roughly 70% (73%) of the universe. dark matter somewhere in the 20% range leaving only about 7 or so percent in ordinary matter. So Dark energy is currently considered to be the "force" driving the acceleration of the universe.

edit: I has switched ordinary matter and dark matter around

[edit on 6-4-2009 by elfie]

reply to post by stander


Well it seems that we have opened a box which leads to yet another box.We can now postulate of the exo-universe(outside the universe).We are still left with "hyperspace"or the "bulk".Regardless if we are connected to membranes existing in a seven or ten dimensional space we still have to account for what created the hyperspace or bulk????.Simply our understanding of physics does not allow us to understand as of yet how as you said"something can be created from nothing",although I have my theory and I am sure there are others.Reality and its creation is the most complex thing we will ever have to solve.A "God",sure,why not?Like I said I have my theories,it is just that at this time we are so polluted with types of string theories,m-theory,f-theory,superstring,brane cosmology,etc,etc...We are trying to figure it out,although it may take time for multiple reasons...........One being our brains may not evolutionarily be able to think on those levels,and two it just take theories built upon theories and mechanics until something can be tested.



Here's one for you all.....................Is it the speed of light(c) that is a constant or is it time?

reply to post by jkrog08


This opens up the discussion to João Magueijo and the theory of the variable C, or the variable speed of light- VSL. I don't think it has been ruled out so far.

reply to post by jkrog08


Jk i wish i could give you an appluase for this thread btw

its great that no one is arguing who is right or wrong but all debating over facts.. this is indeed my kinda debate no wrongs no rights in that respect but humans doing what they do best, work sh't out so kudos to you my friend!!!! stars ect hehe

neway on the question you asked

Here's one for you all.....................Is it the speed of light(c) that is a constant or is it time?

mmmmmm speed of light as we know it is constant yes on all spectrum waves as its both..

But its not related to time..time is somewhat like gravity as it dilates and so forth.. we know atoms can go faster than light based on gravity that seeps from another universe to another its the weak but strong part "i dont get that either" but thats the theory lol or some i guess..

so only from what i know i would say that light is constant and time is not.. i think time fluctuates depending on the density of the gravity of the mass of the object

kinda like a lava lamp ; ) but time is the whole of the lava lamp that effects the different fluids /matter/antimatter/whater that is inside it.. (universe)?

wild guess but thats my little 2 cents

I was thinking about this last night.

The fourth dimension. A lot of people think of it as time, but that relates mostly to the theory of relativity. Other scientists still like to play with the fourth dimension being a spatial dimension. Well.. could it be both?

Suppose from the perspective of the fourth dimension, time is a space. This may seem a bit random or disjointed, but I will pull it all together if you'll bear with me.

Think of a city you've never been to. I'll say Paris, France. If you've been to Paris, substitute another city. Does Paris exist? I can't see it right now with my senses, but it does exist and it is there. I can go there, and then I will be able to see it, but it's there whether I'm there to see it or not.

The problem with predicting the future, time travel forward, and similar things are that we object to the idea that it is all predetermined and we don't have free will. Well, I'm thinking both can be true. The future already exists, but you can't see it yet. That doesn't mean you don't have choices; you do. The thing is, you've already made them. You can't see the place where you've already made them, so you still have to make them, and your decisions determine the outcome. But in the dimension of time, they have already been made, and the decisions you've already made haven't been made yet if you go in the other direction. I know this is hard to wrap your mind around ...

It's like going down a one way street that's very foggy. You can't see ahead of you, only what's right where you are, and you can't see behind you. You can only go forward, and what is there is revealed to you as you move along. The street exists both ahead of and behind you, but you can't see either direction and you can only move forward; you can't even stop. Like Paris, the street exists when you aren't there to see it, but you can't see it.

From the 4th dimension, we are present at all points on that street at the same time. The 4th dimensional being can move in any direction it wants, and see us at any place along that street. How it perceives us is mind-bending enough to contemplate, but here's the thing that was keeping me up last night:

If a 4th dimensional being crossed my path and temporarily occupied the same space and time as me in all 4 dimensions, what would I see?

I'm thinking this could explain some odd phenomena which have been reported. People who have seen into the future and are correct. As previously said, we object to this because it seems to mean everything is predetermined and already decided. No .. in our present moment we are still going there and still have our free will, but from the 4th dimension all places in time already exist, so from that "external" perspective we are at all those points in the past and future, all at once.

Perhaps every once in a while someone takes a shortcut and ends up further along without having passed through all the time they should have to get there. Suppose sometimes, in some places, time is a very winding road, like switchbacks up a mountain, and someone catches a glimpse of themselves on the loop ahead. So does seeing the future mean it is all predetermined? Yes and no. Your choices are not constrained, but the future already exists and you have already done what you will do in the future, you just can't see it because from YOUR perspective you aren't there yet.

This has implications for time travel. If you managed to figure out how to get into the 4th dimension, you could go both forward and backward in time, but you wouldn't be able to change anything because the future is just another place which already exists. If you tear up the street behind you, it doesn't change the street ahead of you. However, if you did go forward in time and observe yourself, then in the future you would see yourself there. I wonder if this could explain doppelgangers?

But back to the big question: if I were to see something which exists in all 4 dimensions, what would it look like to me? Ghostly? Not all there? Fleeting? Would it seem to appear and disappear suddenly as it moved through time in a different direction than I am moving? Could some paranormal experiences and even some UFO sightings be explained by beings which are in all 4 dimensions? This would explain why we can't catch them or get "physical" evidence; by the time we reach the three dimensional place where they were, they've already moved on to somewhere else in the 4th dimension.

Next question ... could two dimensional beings exist also? If so, theoretically they would have length and height but no width. Straight on you'd see it, but from the side it would disappear because it has no width .. and oddly enough sightings of things like that (portals and shadow people who are described as like paper cutouts and can't be seen from the "side") have also been reported.

One of the reasons I've thought about this is because I once had a very odd experience. When I was about 10 years old, I walked across a room and was suddenly in 2 places at once. What I saw and experienced made no sense, but I described it to my aunt, who was in the room with me. Approximately 10 years later, I crossed a street and was again in 2 places at once, only this time everything made sense. I called my aunt afterward and she remembered it happening the first time, so it was real. So I've always wondered how I could experience a few seconds of time 10 years before it happened and pondered the implications of whether it meant my life was predetermined and I didn't have free will. Now, in my own mind, I seem to have somewhat resolved the paradox. I did have free will and made my choices, but since time is also a space I had already made the choices before the me that is perceiving the time I am passing through in the perceived moment of "now" arrived there. It was a few miles ahead of me on the road, but I was also already there, I just couldn't see it yet from here.

So .. do you all think I belong in a loony bin now?

i dont think ur loony what so ever mate. i think people who think they are normal are loony.. and thats based on my own life witnessing things neways lets not go there!

You can't see the place where you've already made them, so you still have to make them, and your decisions determine the outcome. But in the dimension of time, they have already been made

this made my eyeballs twitch!

you cant -1 but u did +1 so u have - if my choice /1/1 outcome =

i know that does not make sens but thats how i see what you said

in other words time is a path we all take that has many ways or outcomes regardless of what choice you indeed make.. as it was always going to be the choice you made neways based on a set of paramaters that allowed one to do so!!!

its not fate or destiny its the eqaution that results in the outcome regardless of how many + and - one adds

This kinda links up with what iv said all along.. you can not esapce the question of life.. as its the very same thing that made us all and the universe

WHY = something.. its NOT a word its an eaquation and im going to find out what WHY =

this i key to our understanding

if all we ask is WHY in respects to the very nature of infact why we are here

btw please understand WHY is not the same as why i use caps for WHY for a reason because this is the fundermental WHY kinda like God / god ect

but back to point.. its the question!!! not what infact the result is...

i wish i could get people to understand that our brains our quantum and out body is not..

we ask WHY.. for a reason there is a reason why we ask WHY.. it has a mathmatical reason for it to do so or it would not be logical and we woul dnot be asking!!!!!



wont anybody listen to me?

Symmetric and Heiki;stars for both of your responses.As far as time goes I believe what you have said,but to further it on a scientific scale I believe that your future is based on the probability distribution........ie:The course you are on now is the most likely and therefor should likely happen,but there is also other possibilities..............I liken it to the probability distribution of an electron,which states that at any given time an electron has say a 40% chance of being at x place,a 20% chance of being at y place and so on......So I think that is the scientific explanation of free will.As far as the c constant I am not sure,think about this......If there was no time than what would the speed of light be,if there was no movement of matter in space(time) would c have a limit of 186,000mps?Sounds like a conundrum don't it?Really no if we look at time as being both a spatial and imaginary dimension(Heinki).It is similar to the theoretical tachyon which in theory has what is called imaginary mass.This allows it to(in theory) be anywhere in the universe instaneously(or at least in the Planck time).Some physicist,as well as myself think this is because the tachyon exists in a "zero phase" dimension with no movement of mass,but rather movement of space.


One more question.....have either of you ever heard of Event Strings?

i can honestly say no about event strings!!

But i would like to try and talk about the time thing abit more if thats ok and free choice and how that infact would accour..as i see it neways

We as humans are on a road.. this road infact is the passage of time as we know it.. we can not go back but yet we can see the future.. but we can infact go back via history "time travel" ; ) very simple and another debate.. but..

on the premis of time is that of not in a one thing, if one is to have a choice of free will, what is free will? or what infact is it based on?

lets look at free will in more detail abit here.. If one is to set up an anrean for robots to play football vs other robots to make logical moves like in chese to get / out wit the apponent?

is that not free will of the computer algerithim making the most logical choic based on a set of paramaters?

you see why we have computers is humans understanding that we are infact based on rules

the rules of the game are this

you are to ask questions.. you dont ask questions but solve the answers

its a riddle on an epic scale a riddle that for 20 years has made my eyes water and my brain inflame..

Time is not a riddle but mearly one of the same thing

a question

a question = BOTH.. one needs to understand the yin yang of life itself

we NEEED to ask questions.. i cant state this enough we NEEEEEED to ask the question..

if we dont ask why.. there is no logical reason for us to even be here... or infact the universe

how does that work? well lets look at chaos what is chaos?? its just random nonsens that makes no sens what so ever!! well NO that is wrong compleatly wrong..

chaos is infact more logical than many think.. infact its the very logic that gives rise to logic!!!

do you understand why a question in so important???

a question = chaos

the reslut of the question = logical

you see after 20 years after smashing my head on walls i infact know why im here...

that is to not ask WHY in relation to WHO but WHY in relation to HOW

understand that

i sound like some nutty dude i adimt but i noticed this from when i was 7 years old..

20 years doing and studying every subject that made or atleast made sens via 2 things

logic and infinity

chaos well as i said fits in very nice

its just a pitty my english is so crap that its going to take me so long to make my paper lol oh well 20 years im not in any rush

ok just wanted to try and add further to this part

a question = chaos 1 P.I / Infinity

the reslut of the question = logical 2 / symmerty

just trying to give more info

oh and please if you can JK post more event strings please

"" this is only my own theory "" it has not bee peer review yet! nore can i provied all the evidence via ATS for valid reasons "more so as someone with good english is doing the paper"

befor anyone flames me

[edit on 6-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


Event Strings are a relatively new temporal theory(kinda' metaphysical in aspects) that states that every action in reality has what is called casual energy,or the energy associated with cause and effect.Event strings are a series of "strings of events" that result in an effect.It is like how if you look at one thing as simple as a shape it could lead you on a path to something as complex as lets say meeting your wife or whatever.These event strings culminate in "casual energy singularities" or intervention points were the time line can diverge into one of many probabilities.In theory it would be possible to dissect these event strings and predict events without actually traveling through time,although this would take a new form of mathematics.I will continue more about event strings tomorrow,for now I g2g.

reply to post by jkrog08


ohhh ok im going to read more on this!!!

thanks for such a great thread JK!! i hope i can add more wildness but im going to look up event strings right now..

have a good night.day and look forward to chatting again here

ty for the star also

Thanks for not thinking I'm crazy guys. I appreciate it.

I left myself .. and probably you guys .. thinking that I perceive time as linear .. which is what we usually do since all we can do is move forward through it.

But I'm seeing it as a territory all its own that goes in every direction. Each of us is on his/her own road, but time, if it is 4D, must incorporate the 3 "lower" dimensions, so it isn't linear.

Now we're back to .. there could be forks in the "road," and perhaps we take both of them. So then all of our possible futures exist, and we exist in all of them. Are your eyeballs twitching again yet?

Anyway, there was one question I forgot to ask:

If time is a road I must travel along, why in the heck aren't there any places to make a U-turn??



edit to add:

Nope, had not heard of event strings before, but am interested in hearing more and will go look them up as well. Thanks!


[edit on 6-4-2009 by Heike]

reply to post by Heike


hahah

Now we're back to .. there could be forks in the "road," and perhaps we take both of them. So then all of our possible futures exist, and we exist in all of them. Are your eyeballs twitching again yet?



we do indeed as that is the requriement i think to be in all to infact have the options /infinity question saga

wooohoo i am sooo loving this thread how do i give an applause??? dammit lol

neways moff to read about event strings they sound very interesting!!

star for heiki the psuedoskeptic [sarcasm]]

words the wrong way round 'edit'

[edit on 6-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by stander

 

What is the origin of Nothing?

thats the point the nothing is infact a something!!!

0 may be a nothing but it has a value.. thats the point

so the 0 plays a part in what? a line of something..

if one is stuck in infinity the nothing is the question.. ; )

Well, we use the symbol 0 (zero) in conjunction with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 . . . , where these symbols reflect upon quantities. That means if you eat all apples in the basket, the number of apples left is zero. But I doubt that you would chew on the basket and the whole kitchen for that matter to arrive at absolute zero, or Nothing. Nothing is absence of presence and its opposite Something is . . . ?

No it can't be the logical opposite where Something is presence of absence, coz the clause doesn't make sense. Something is absence of absence. So if Something = 1 and Nothing = 0, and nothing is absence of presence, then

Nothing = 0 x. 1

and if Something is absence of absence, then

Something = 0 x. 0

There may be plenty of universes in the Space, and there is a good chance that some of the civilizations existing there could beat the odds against their demise. The members of such civilizations could be a few billions years "ahead of us," and the top thinkers out there could have only one motivation to continue on living, and the motivation is, as you guessed it right, getting insight into the meaning of Something = 0 x. 0, which is the equation describing the Super Origin of All, where All = Presence + Absence in the abstract format. Transform this into a real or physical format and you are entering mental mayham that could send you to a super-advanced mental asylum.


[edit on 4/6/2009 by stander]

no

0 means you are here to count the apples

in this regard 0+



its not as simple as 1+1

i made a thread about this very thing.. No humans are infact calculated in mathamatics.. all matthmatics are based on obversvatiaon that do not infact include the oberser in the euqation

1+1=3

one missunderstands the aspect here..

in order for you to formulate it one is 1

to have nothing is 0 = 0+

in order for you to have happens would infact one to be here...

this is the problem.. You do not think of YOU doing the eqautation

and you wonder why nothing makes sens

[edit on 6-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]


buurr edited again!! sorry

Well, we use the symbol 0

no we dont we are 0 as we are the one doing the calculation ..

you see in order for you to do 1 apple + 1 apple needs what????

someone to do the question = 1

= 1+1 = 3

YOU are doing the the asking correct? or do you find it logical one can just have 1 apple + 1 apple from thin air?

lol??? NO you need 1+1+1+ = 3

YOU need to understand YOU are the very thing that gave rise to the very question you are asking 1+1=2 yes ?

what is missing?? in 1+1=2?

YOU ARE !!!!! LOL

LOGICAL and NOt inthe sum.. its stupid not to understand why ur not infact in the very question your asking dont u think?

who or what is asking what is 1+1?

YOU are/.. so 1+1 is not infact one but 3 coz it inculdes the person making the obersvation ov the very quesiton one is asking

LOGIC

trust me.. try any sum you wish that does not many any sens

P.I then +1

then see what happens.... now u understand how stupid mathmatics is when you dont include YOU into mathmatics

have a nice day

[edit on 6-4-2009 by symmetricAvenger]

1. Anything which is possible is a part of this universe.

2. You change dimensions all the time and do not realize it. This effect is the illusion of time.

3. Dimensions are not really parallel, but parallel only in the sense of being next to your own linear path.

4. There is a difference between that which is being observed and that which does the observation.

5. These things have always been known and have been told by countless "spiritual" and philosophical leaders all over history. Jesus for example talked of these things. There is a reason he calls following him "a path".

*disclaimer - I am not a christian and think Christianity is a satanic religion for the ignorant. I do however talk about religion and such things in a different way.

Lets start with time as an illusion and why. I am going to use movies and movie films to explain most of this, as a movie film is a really good example of a time line.

If you stretch the entire movie out, it has no time, it has no change. Everything that is included in the movie is known all at once. Only when you take that same movie film and then view it under a limited perspective and frame by frame does that film have the illusion of time.

But a movie film is linear. It has a single path, you can't change it, you are stuck with whatever the director put on that. This is not true of our universe, we are the directors.

Ever read a "choose your own adventure" book? This is more like how our universe works. In a choose your own adventure book, you get to make "choices" and change the outcome of the book. Each choice tells you to turn to a different page(dimension shift) and then you continue on. This book is not a linear book at all, but as you make choices and read the story, the outcome you get from the book does actually appear linear. And this is also true of our reality.

When we make choices we shift dimensions, the same as in a choose your own adventure book. So back to the movie film, rather than 1 single movie film, every single possible movie film exists. All right "next" to each other. The "nearest" dimensions would be the ones that are almost exactly like the one you are currently in, only just a little bit different. You can see this effect, or "proof" of this very easily. When you get up to walk to the fridge, every step is a step into the "next" dimension. And of course, it is almost exactly like the previous. So much so we don't notice the change. While we could have take any number of routes to get to the fridge, the one we ended up experiencing was linear.

The closest dimensions are what makes up "4d". The nearest almost exact dimensions stacked into a 4d shape. Again, we can see part of the 4d object ourselves just by viewing a time line. Instead of looking at each step on the way to the fridge, we can look at being in all those places at once, and we have partial 4d. Only because it is not linear, you are not only in that linear line you took, but in all the possible places next to it as well. I don't know how many 3d's in a 4d. But whatever possibilities quantum physics says is possible from the current I would have to say make up 4d.

you can stack 4d into 5d and so forth. The further you get from the current point, the more and bigger the change is. In order to get a change like a different planet completely, you'd be making some extremely huge jumps. Again, you can see this based on our own timeline, it would be like jumping back in time 100 years and how much different it would be, rather than jumping back 5 minutes ago and seeing the difference.

So you are constantly moving across these dimensions etc, and you experience a linear path. So what is it that determines our path and what dimensions we enter? Choice mostly. This is also easy to demonstrate.

Right now you are sitting in your chair reading this. Right now we can see 2 possibly future dimensions. More than that, but 2 makes it easy. In 1 future dimension you are holding your hands in the air. In another future dimension you are not holding your hands in the air. Both these possible dimensions exist. Both are available to you. Which one becomes a reality is your choice.

So when you make bad choices, then you are going to lead down a path that results in bad things. If you steal from people, then you are going to go down a path that reflects that. If you make good choices, then you lead down other paths. Meet a person, rob them and end up in worse places, make a friend with them and you end up in better places. And this is where people like Jesus and such come in, and why he talks about a path. Because your actions and what you do are going to lead you down a path that leads to either good or bad things.

The hypocrite is the worse off. Because they do not realize their own faults and their own bad choices. Thus, to them it appears they are being punished for no reason, and that there is no reason/cause for what is happening to them. Thus, as they do not realize they don't change or fix that mistake. Which btw, in religion terms would be to repent(fix) for a sin(mistake). Why are you automatically forgiven? Because once you fix that bad choice/error then you start making good choice which leads down better future dimensions. Take all these religious hypocrites(pharisees) who want to go war and such all the time. They can only see the other persons mistakes, they don't realize that their own actions are the same mistake, or worse and thus they make bad choices and get the results of it. All the while blaming everyone else.

So these things aren't really new. It's just the actual understanding of it that has been hidden from most people. And obviously praising Jesus while going to wars and doing bad things isn't going to help you. These things are expressed in many ways, I'm just most familiar with Jesus etc. Like when someone says the universe is a reflection of you, it's pretty much talking about the same thing. Karma is talking about it, you reap what you sow in the bible, all these things are expressing it. Even that Michael Jackson song - I'm stuck looking at the man in the mirror, I'm asking him(the mirror) to change his ways. As that is what hypocrites do.

This is how you "move" across these dimensions. The universe is actually static, in that it doesn't move at all just like that movie film stretched out. The only thing that really moves is your consciousness/perspective.

And btw, the father(all knowing and much greater than any of us) views the entire movie film, you(the son/daughter) experiences the movie. 1 in the same, just different perspectives at the time. Ever been so drawn into a movie that it seems as if only the tv screen exists, and that little tv you had when you were a kid felt like it filled your entire perspective?

Row, row, row your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.