What Is British?

reply to post by beforetime


It is like Americans "hurt their fanny's". Here in Britain that means something completely different!

To be British is not much to most. To be English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish is far more. We are Britain for political convenience, and we are it's constituents for the rest.

The Scots and the Irish have far more patriotism or at least public display of it than us English. St Patrick's Day and Burns night are just two of the national celebrations they have and we all know they celebrate them with passion. We have St George's Day but we don't do much about it.

I prefer the 'British' title, we are neighbours on a relatively small island and we all speak the same language, except for a small amount, and we've been this way for centuries. If asked I say I'm British with pride.

I like having a Queen and the Monarchy. They are not just for show and I like the fact that we have one. Rule Brittania!

There are three great things about being British.

1. We have a 70mph speed limit. We don't think 100 mph is very fast.
2. Our comedy and humour is the best in the world. (Just my opinion, don't get all riled)
3. Our history, we've got loads of it, and it's all pivotal in the development of what we have today, good or bad.

I like being British, I always wished I was born in America when I was young because of films like The Goonies, Explorers and Ferris Beuller, but now that I'm older, I wouldn't want to be anything else.

Would it be fair to say that British is like saying Hispanics?

I hate when people call me hispanic, I am from Puerto Rico, if anything I am puertorican.

Ironically, I think it's very modern-British to be having this discussion. I don't think there's a joining of nations on earth that suffers the identity crisis that Britain has and yet is so readily stereotyped by the rest of the world.

British and Britain to me, for better or worse, is a rallying cry. It's about the idea of people across the Islands mucking-in together usually in times of war &c. The idea that in our own homes we might be Scottish, Welsh, Irish or English and proud of it but together we can all be part of something larger, and for a while, forget the differences that have kept us at each other's throats half the time.

reply to post by Sendran

"
There are three great things about being British.

1. We have a 70mph speed limit. We don't think 100 mph is very fast.
2. Our comedy and humour is the best in the world. (Just my opinion, don't get all riled)
3. Our history, we've got loads of it, and it's all pivotal in the development of what we have today, good or bad.
"
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You have to be joking surely. Being British is about being the most powerful (and our history proves it) people in the world yet when it comes to confronting our government we cower in the corner like frightened rabbits. Even the French stick up for themselves more than us Brits. Lets look at these examples which puts it all in perspective.
1. We have a 70mph speed limit. We don't think 100mph is very fast. .. The 70mph was brought in the 60s when some idiot took an AC Cobra up the M6 at nearly 170mph. Modern cars could easily cope with 100mph but if you do it in this bloody country and you will be treated worse than a pedophile. Motorists are seen as the antichrist in the UK and don't we know it.
2. Our comedy is the best in the world! It would have to be. We are a nation who sit in front of our televisions and giggle like schoolgirls at the latest sit-com because we can't afford to go out and have a proper life because the governments taken all our money and our kids have gone postal!
3.Our history. Our bl**dy history. . . We've taken on the world and won and yet we allow pen pushers in Whitehall to openly ruin our lives and we sit back and collectively let them! We deserve what we get.

I'm sorry to say it, but Britain is finished. The government has gone out of its way to break the will of the British people. Will the last person out please turn off the lights? Thank you.

I'm sorry to say it, but Britain is finished. The government has gone out of its way to break the will of the British people. Will the last person out please turn off the lights? Thank you.

Blimey old bean, seems like one has lost his what-what? Be a spice and pull your self together, we're British and that means something.

Are you going to allow yourself to be trounced just because the papers say we're doomed, or are you going to raise your chin to the sky and be proud of yourself, what?


[edit on 1-10-2008 by mr-lizard]

Originally posted by mr-lizard

I'm sorry to say it, but Britain is finished. The government has gone out of its way to break the will of the British people. Will the last person out please turn off the lights? Thank you.

Blimey old bean, seems like one has lost his what-what? Be a spice and pull your self together, we're British and that means something.

Are you going to allow yourself to be trounced just because the papers say we're doomed, or are you going to raise your chin to the sky and be proud of yourself, what?


[edit on 1-10-2008 by mr-lizard]

It meant something years ago but not anymore. At the moment I'm doing my uttmost to emigrate and get out of this country. In the last 15 years all the government has done is openly pick on and chastise the British people like we are unruly school kids and it gets in my nerves. They call it the nanny state but no grandmother I know would treat her own like this government treats us.

Dad's Army is a perfect example of what it is to be English - mannerisms, humor, blind loyalty, (friendly) rivalry. It's all there.

Another program that showed the English way of life was Till Death Us Do Part. I think it is still relevant. Many English know similar characters in their own lives.

Whether they portray life in other British States is a matter of opinion. To me, I imagine being Scottish to be as portrayed in Rab C. Nesbit and Still Game. Both display characters with similar qualities to those shown in Dad's Army and Until Death Us Do Part.

Trying to describe the quality of Britishness is really impossible. It has to be demonstrated.

Britishness...It's taken us thousands of years to develop it. It can't be imitated. You have to live it to be it, see it to get it.

Alf Garnet (Until Death Us Do Part)
Rab C. Nesbit
Dad's Army
Still Game

Sorry Wales, N. Ireland, Hebrides, Isle of man, Gibraltar and the rest. I can't think of any programs to represent you.

reply to post by Rapacity

"Britishness...It's taken us thousands of years to develop it. It can't be imitated. You have to live it to be it, see it to get it.

Alf Garnet (Until Death Us Do Part)
Rab C. Nesbit
Dad's Army
Still Game "
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Well I felt depressed before and now, after reading this I'm suicidal!
Alf Garnet- a racist foul mouthed old bigot to represent England.
Rab.CNesbit- a drunken Scot to represent Scotland.
Dads Army- a bunch of old farts wandering around playing soldiers!
And what on earth is Still Game?

You can't say that this country has gone to the dogs! It passed the dogs a couple of miles back and is racing on towards Oblivion. lets hope the rozzers and their speed cameras don't catch them!

For those who don't know of the Character Alf Garnet (and who couldn't click the link), here's an excerpt from Wikipedia:

Alf was reactionary, mean-spirited, selfish, bigoted, racist, misogynistic, and anti-Semitic. Warren Mitchell himself is in fact Jewish. In In Sickness and in Health he also displays homophobia, largely because he gets a gay black man whom he calls "Marigold" as his home help. The home help calls him "bwana". Generally Alf blamed his problems on everybody else. His family was the usual target of his anger and frustration. On the show, Garnett was regularly ridiculed for his illogical views and hypocrisy by his family, but he stubbornly refused to admit he was wrong.

To add entertainment to the show, Alf was outraged when his daughter, Rita played by Una Stubbs, decided to marry Michael, her long-haired, unemployed boyfriend played by Anthony Booth. Michael was from Liverpool and a Catholic of Irish descent; precisely the type of person Alf most hated. He often called him the "Randy Scouse Git". This terminology was later picked up by the American pop group The Monkees for their song, "Randy Scouse Git", included on their 1967 album Headquarters. Alf and Michael had different political views and much of the programme was centred around their heated debates about politics.

Alf was a working class man, forever complaining that he worked and worked and yet lived somewhere near the poverty line, and was a staunch supporter of the Conservative Party, although he didn't support one-time leader Margaret Thatcher, because he believed that a woman's place was at home "chained to the bloody kitchen sink!" and blamed Thatcher's husband Denis for not telling her "to keep her place". His biggest reason for being a Conservative was not that he loved and admired the party, but that he fully rejected the policy of the Labour Party, believing them to pretend to represent the working classes, whilst all they would do when in power is feather their own nests. He was also an admirer of the Queen and the Royal Family. This however, did not stop him from criticising them when he thought they deserved it. His biggest passion in life though, was his local Football team West Ham United [1].

The British public loved Alf Garnett - since everyone knew such a reactionary figure within their own locality - although the television show was heavily criticised for the character's prejudices. Writer Johnny Speight often commented that the character was supposed to be a figure of ridicule, but admits that not all viewers saw the satiric elements of the character.[2][3] Speight defended the Alf Garnett character, saying: "If you do the character correctly, he just typifies what you hear - not only in pubs but in golf clubs around the country. To make him truthful he's got to say those things, and they are nasty things. But I feel as a writer that they should be out in the open so we can see how daft these comparisons are."[4]

Alf Garnet

I'm not saying we're racist, bigoted or prejudiced. The show he's in has other character types too. Some the total opposite, some the object of his hatred. Enjoy.

reply to post by Mintwithahole.


You must be young or not living in a British environment to not see the elements of British character displayed in those programs. Britishness isn't the programs, it isn't the individual characters. It is in the role-play, the characters bouncing off of each other, the interactions and, yes, the farcical side to things.

Originally posted by Rapacity
reply to post by Mintwithahole.

 

You must be young or not living in a British environment to not see the elements of British character displayed in those programs. Britishness isn't the programs, it isn't the individual characters. It is in the role-play, the characters bouncing off of each other, the interactions and, yes, the farcical side to things.

Congratulations on being the most patronising person on ATS! I'm not that young and I live in Liverpool which, last time I looked, was in Britain and full to the brim with British people! Thank you for sharing your thoughts on what makes good comedy but since I live in Liverpool which has produced more comedians and writers than anywhere else in this country,I think you will agree I most probably no more about humour than you. .. It was once said that you had to be a comedian to live here! Now they say that about the UK.. .

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.

Well I felt depressed before and now, after reading this I'm suicidal!
Alf Garnet- a racist foul mouthed old bigot to represent England.

I think Alf Garnet represents, amongst other things, satire; something I think the British do rather well. Alf Garnet represents the ability to actually laugh at 'racist foul mouthed old bigots' and see them for what they really are whilst still giving them a freedom and platform to air their views. We watch Garnet hang himself with his own rope as it were, in black and white, on the screen in front of us.

Dads Army- a bunch of old farts wandering around playing soldiers!

The whole show is based on some pretty standard British stereotypes. The relationship between the classes is very well played out between some of the characters. The relationship between Mainwaring and Wilson is excellent and I say this as not being particularly a fan of the show.

As for Liverpool producing "more comedians and writers than anywhere else in this country", I'd be very interested as to whether you can actually support this. I'm not saying it's not the case, just that I'd be very surprised if it was the case particularly considering how many comedians and writers, even now, go through the Oxbridge system for example. Are there any current Liverpudlian writers and comedians you can point me to?

[edit on 1-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by Merriman Weir


"As for Liverpool producing "more comedians and writers than anywhere else in this country", I'd be very interested as to whether you can actually support this."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where do you start...
Comedians.
Ken Dodd, Freddie Starr, Jimmy Tarbuck, Arthur Askey, Craig Charles, Les Dennis, Kenny Everett, Deryck Guyler, Tommy Handley, Tom O'Connor, Ted Robbins, Ted Ray, Akexei Sayle, Ricky Tomlinson. (I could go on.)

Actors.
Michael Angelis, Tom Baker, Gary Bleasdale, Tony Booth, Doug Bradley, Kim Cattrall, Margi Clarke, Daniel Craig, The McGanns, Derek Nimmo, Leonard Rossiter, Claire Sweeney, Rex Harrison, Rita Tushingham, Cathy Tyson, (I could go on.)

Musicians.

The Beatles, Cilla Black, Frankie Goes To Hollywood,George Melly, Frankie Vaughn, Billy Fury, etc.

Writers and Playwrights.

Beryl Bainbridge, Alan Bleasdale, Ramsay Campbell, James Corbett, Brian Dooley, Bill Kenwright, Carla Lane, Linda La Plante, Nicholas Monserat, Margaret Murphy, Willy Russell, etc, etc.

I'm sure you get the picture.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
Where do you start...
Comedians.
Ken Dodd, Freddie Starr, Jimmy Tarbuck, Arthur Askey, Craig Charles, Les Dennis, Kenny Everett, Deryck Guyler, Tommy Handley, Tom O'Connor, Ted Robbins, Ted Ray, Akexei Sayle, Ricky Tomlinson. (I could go on.)

Actors.
Michael Angelis, Tom Baker, Gary Bleasdale, Tony Booth, Doug Bradley, Kim Cattrall, Margi Clarke, Daniel Craig, The McGanns, Derek Nimmo, Leonard Rossiter, Claire Sweeney, Rex Harrison, Rita Tushingham, Cathy Tyson, (I could go on.)

Musicians.

The Beatles, Cilla Black, Frankie Goes To Hollywood,George Melly, Frankie Vaughn, Billy Fury, etc.

Writers and Playwrights.

Beryl Bainbridge, Alan Bleasdale, Ramsay Campbell, James Corbett, Brian Dooley, Bill Kenwright, Carla Lane, Linda La Plante, Nicholas Monserat, Margaret Murphy, Willy Russell, etc, etc.

I'm sure you get the picture.

No offence (and I say this as a fellow Northerner who's going to be catching a train to Liverpool in less than 2 hours and someone who loathes the manufactured rivalry between Manchester and Liverpool) but you really think that's more than say, from London? Even, say, those from the south east that went through the satire boom of the 1960s?

Before his death I used to know a lovely man who was fairly significant in the British music scene music scene throughout the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s and specifically Liverpool's music scene throughout the 1970s and 1980s and he once told me himself that he didn't think Liverpool was as significant as was made out in the 1980s.

As for you list of musicians, as always the Beatles rest very heavily on the Beatles for recognition, although, I suppose it's understandable. But again, do you honestly think your list is any more significant as a whole than a list - for the sake of continuity - of London bands? As someone who is generally classed as 'Mancunian' I could similarly list also list a series of bands.


[edit on 2-10-2008 by Merriman Weir]

reply to post by woogleuk


Wow I didn't know you had southerners in Scotland. You can go to Louisiana and ask for directions and they will tell you ower yonder. Oh and they don't have teeth not sure if that relates somehow.

reply to post by Merriman Weir


I too don't partake in the old Liverpool/mancunian rivalry. Theres simply no point. I take your point about London and Manchester but these are two huge catchment areas where as Liverpool is a relatively small coastal area. I think you have to accept that this city has contributed more entertainers etc to this country than anywhere else.

reply to post by dragonridr



Lol, oh dear me, no my friend, i have a full compliment of teeth, well, i tell a lie, my bottom molars and wisdom teeth have suffered many a beer bottle opening.

As for Scotland, as lovely a country as it is, Cumbria where I live is in England, it borders Scottishland.

Thanks for sharing the dialect thingy with louisiana though, made me chuckle

And to the scouser, I support LFC, Craig Charles is one of my favourite actors, i love the film 51st state, the Beatles are one of the greatest bands ever, and in the 80's I used to love a show called Bread, which was filmed in liverpool, hell, one of my best mates, Balc, he's from Bootle, I went to his flat, came back with fleas dammit , but Liverpools contribution to the arts isn't that big when compared to London and Yorkshire.

Peace

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by dragonridr

 

Lol, oh dear me, no my friend, i have a full compliment of teeth, well, i tell a lie, my bottom molars and wisdom teeth have suffered many a beer bottle opening.

As for Scotland, as lovely a country as it is, Cumbria where I live is in England, it borders Scottishland.

Thanks for sharing the dialect thingy with louisiana though, made me chuckle

And to the scouser, I support LFC, Craig Charles is one of my favourite actors, i love the film 51st state, the Beatles are one of the greatest bands ever, and in the 80's I used to love a show called Bread, which was filmed in liverpool, hell, one of my best mates, Balc, he's from Bootle, I went to his flat, came back with fleas dammit

, but Liverpools contribution to the arts isn't that big when compared to London and Yorkshire.

Peace

believe it or not there are a few who would say that Bootle Isn't Liverpool! And Scouse fleas don't only bite but they invite all their friends around for supper. We'll just have to disagree about who has contributed more to the arts? As a scouser I'm honour bound to stick up for my city but I do take your point. Good on yeh for supporting the reds.

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
reply to post by Merriman Weir

 

I think you have to accept that this city has contributed more entertainers etc to this country than anywhere else.

Eh? Based on what? Based on what you say? It's funny, walking down Matthew Street today in the rain, looking at self-promotion regarding the bands and whatnot, Beatles aside, it genuinely seemed pretty small change.

You can talk about catchment areas all you want, but it stands, Liverpool hasn't "contributed more entertainers etc to this country than anywhere else". There's been some genuinely significant contributions (again the Beatles) but as for pure numbers? Sorry, that's not the case.

Anyway, back to the actual topic of the thread...

I don't know how familiar the readers of this thread are Punch, but over the last 150 years or so, there were some great illustrations depicting Britishness.

Punch cartoons on the British character

Some of them seem antiquated at first, but somehow I think a lot of them have a resonance even now.

I was also thinking on the train that one aspect of Britishness that's unique to the English is having your nationality made synonymous with Britishness and being reduced to this vague, 'no longer sure where the dividing line is' identity.