The REAL issue that is being deflected, and you are being disinformed on.

While we argue over Obama and McCain. Or UFO's vs weather balloons. Islam vs well everyone who isn't Muslim. Or Masons vs Christian Fundementalists, Greys vs Fox Mulder etc....there is a growing problem that NO ONE wants to talk about.

It's real, it's coming and I wonder how many people have ANY plan what so ever to deal with it. I say deal with it, but cause the time to "do something" about it was passed a long time ago.

That issue is the very likely possible collapse of the U.S. Dollar or at the very least inflation like America has never seen before.

You don't hear Republicans or Democrats talking about it. They're in fact both guilty of having a hand in how it happened.

Our money supply has grown way way too large per capita. We should have felt inflation decades ago, however our vast trade defeceit, and Chinese currency being tied to the dollar has artificially kept inflation low even while our money supply has grown.

The money supply has increased over 7 times just since 1980.....and it is clear thanks to changes in Banking laws then the Federal Reserve is unable to control it. Had it not been for the trade deficeit, or being able to buy Chinese goods at a constant rate we would have felt inflation in many small jumps, and now we risk the very real possibility of feeling it all at once.

Imagine if the American dollar was worth say 20 cents tommorrow....? Even if oil prices globally didn't change youd see gas go from around $4.00 a gallon to $20.00 a gallon......$300 plus everytime you fill up? deffinately. Does even 30 or 40 miles to the gallon make it feel any better?

Now let's add the fact that the GAO the Comptroller General has all but been screaming about the brick wall ahead due to social security and medicare...and once again no Democrat or Republican wants to discuss it....and the media has barely even mentioned his cries.



So if we can't pay off the debt, and these social welfare systems are about to hit a roadblock.....how will we pay for it?

Good question.....how else? We'll simply print money. Well it's that or be more fiscally responsible and cancel teh programs all together. What politician in his right mind though is going to say, "for the good of this country I am canceling medicare or social security".

So again they'll simply have to "monterize the debt", even while our money supply has already increased over 7 fold from 1980 while out population has only increased from 230 million to 303 million in that same period. So at a time when our Dollar is already grossly overvalued, we're going to try a moneterize over 53 trillion in debt.

What does this mean? I'd start to study 1980-90's Argentina and 1930's Germany........Hyperinflation here we come, and outside of the recently retired Gao Comptroller General you won't find a single news organization or any politicians discussing it.

So what will you do if in a few years that 10,000 in the bank has the buying power of 1,000 bucks.....how will that effect retirement plans? How will you commute to work if over night it takes a week's salary to buy a tank of gas? If a gallon of milk costs $25? When it starts to happen how quickly will Chine start to liquidate it's dollars and buy up say U.S. realestate?

Will it be that bad? Honestly there is no way to know...it very well COULD be.....but because of all the disinformation and defelction such as ending the M3 report....we really do not even know anymore how bad it is.



[edit on 20/7/2008 by ForkandSpoon]

Government's move underscores futility of saving dollars
Commodities offer a more-secure port in an inflation storm.
By Scott Burns
Sunday, June 01, 2008

A lot of explanations are offered for the soaring prices of oil and commodities. You can choose from: (a) the terrorism premium, (b) speculators, (c) peak oil theory, (d) shrinking net exports from oil-producing nations, (e) rising demand from emerging market economies or (f) any combination of the above.

But another reason might be as important: the futility of holding dollar-based investments.

The most recent indication is the May interest rate reset on Series I Savings Bonds.

These are the savings bonds that anyone can buy because they are sold, commission-free, in amounts as small as $50. Indeed, you aren't allowed to buy more than $5,000 of them in a year.

I Savings Bonds, like Treasury Inflation Protected Securities, guarantee that the money you invest will be protected from losses of purchasing power due to inflation. This is done by adjusting your principal upward to compensate for inflation, as measured by the Consumer Price Index. In addition to the inflation adjustment, you also receive a fixed premium, giving you a modest "real" return. The premium amount is reset every six months, and you receive the premium offered in your purchase period, plus inflation adjustments, for the life of the bond.

When they were first offered nearly 10 years ago, I Savings Bonds paid a premium of 3.40 percent over inflation. Since then the premium has declined as the bonds have become more popular and an increasing number of savers have understood that the total return on these bonds was often higher than the return on conventional savings bonds. Those who bought the early bonds, for instance, are now enjoying returns over 8 percent (3.40 percent premium plus 4.84 percent inflation).

But that was then.

Savers were shocked on May 1 when the Treasury announced that I Savings Bonds issued during the next six months would carry a premium of zero. Yes, you read that right.

Zero.

Even so, the annualized "return" on the bonds for the next six months will be 4.84 percent, the annualized inflation rate.

The Treasury Department basically told savers it would condescend to take their money, use it for whatever it chooses, and return it adjusted for inflation.

The inflation adjustment will be deemed "interest," however, so when the bonds are redeemed, savers would in effect be taxed for lending money to their government.

For small savers, it's a raw deal. But it is offered in a market filled with raw deals for savers. Conventional savings instruments, whether offered by the Treasury or banks, are no better. All are offering interest rates well below the rate of inflation. And then, adding insult to injury, your interest income will be taxed.

What's unique about the I Savings Bond rate is that the hosing is so explicit. By having a premium of zero over inflation, the Treasury is sending a simple message to savers: Drop dead.

If American savers are getting a raw deal, how do you think the Chinese government feels about its holdings of depreciating U.S. Treasury obligations? Or the Japanese government? Or the Russian government? Or any holder of Treasury obligations anywhere in the world?

When dollar investments are a sure way to lose purchasing power, commodities become very attractive. That's when we fill our closets with paper towels, soap, canned goods and any other consumable that can be stored.

Well, that's what big money is doing all around the world. With no real yield on cash, it says, Let's own barrels of oil, ingots of nickel, platinum and palladium. Let's own bars of silver and gold coins. Let's own some grain bins.

For those seeking to protect their wealth, Bubble Risk may be better than worthless paper risk. Small wonder commodities are booming.

www.statesman.com...

If you read the preceeding two posts in detail, and go about doing your own research you'll know more about the real danger and the cliff we are at then 99% of Americans.....the news will suddenly make alot more sense....and if you have any sort of obligation to famlies, you should be sufficiently chilled to your bones.

Ya know you can talk about how aliens abducted some actors baby and or how lions club is secretly a cult of lizard men and everyones "right on!", but you can tell people about the truth and the tsunami swallowing them and they show no interest.

Pearls and swine indeed.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


The average American is not going to be interested in this until TPTB decide it is time. Then they will get their little minions to put what ever spin on it that they want to convey. The will have people believing that their benevolent government is going to come to their aide and will pick them up in government vehicles and transport them to their wonderful new homes. Of course we are all in this together so living and working together as a cohesive unit is what a good American will do until their government can get us out of this mess. They will buy it hook, line and sinker even skipping to the special chambers for their cleansing baths.

Expect the U.S. $ to decline relatively quickly. The stimulus budget the new administration will submit will be paid for by hundreds of billions of newly printed dollars. The final demise will come from an international avoidance of U.S. currency. This is as planned and will usher in the introduction of the the Amero (a new North American currency). Canada, Mexico and U.S. citizens will be conned into the belief that it is necessary. The planning for this has been ongoing for years and at the highest levels. It is the next step to a global corporate state.
- We are V

You're right that this is a huge issue, but I see the monetary collapse as potentially being engineered as an intentional attack on national sovereignty. It is a great launching ground for this idea that global crises require global solutions.

The problem is that people have a hard time understanding inflation because many people don't realize a dollar is just a medium of exchange, and not a solid tangible item with fixed purchasing power. It's almost a mental trick in that way.

Originally posted by cassandranova
You're right that this is a huge issue, but I see the monetary collapse as potentially being engineered as an intentional attack on national sovereignty. It is a great launching ground for this idea that global crises require global solutions.

You might also argue the opposite, though.

The US$ is in many ways already a global currency, and the effects of a collapsing/collapsed US$ would have huge effects worldwide. Bigger effects than any other currency collapsing. So when all the countries of Europe and Asia have their economies hit by a US$ collapse they're going to be clamoring for another, new global currency? Seems more likely they'll be running far away from that model...and nationalism could rise again over globalism.

Many of the issues discussed on ATS would have a far greater impact on the world than a completely collapsed US dollar. Whether or not they're true is another matter entirely.

Originally posted by Vault-D

Originally posted by cassandranova
You're right that this is a huge issue, but I see the monetary collapse as potentially being engineered as an intentional attack on national sovereignty. It is a great launching ground for this idea that global crises require global solutions.

You might also argue the opposite, though.

The US$ is in many ways already a global currency, and the effects of a collapsing/collapsed US$ would have huge effects worldwide. Bigger effects than any other currency collapsing. So when all the countries of Europe and Asia have their economies hit by a US$ collapse they're going to be clamoring for another, new global currency? Seems more likely they'll be running far away from that model...and nationalism could rise again over globalism.

Interesting point about a collapsing dollar possibly causing a return to nationalism. The people may well feel that way, but I believe that the leaders in place are all globalists and will steer things in the NWO direction.

One thing seems certain, and that's that the $ is doomed. Whether through hyperinflation or international abandonment, the tsunami of debt we've incurred spells its demise.

edit sp

[edit on 17-1-2009 by resistor]

Great post and great information.

Unfortunately, things with such intelligent thought, logic, and reason are looked down upon here in ATS

If it's not about Obama being Muslim or a race of reptillians secretly controlling earth, people aren't interested.

Deny ignorance indeed...

Originally posted by mdiinican
Many of the issues discussed on ATS would have a far greater impact on the world than a completely collapsed US dollar. Whether or not they're true is another matter entirely.

Really? consider the place of power America occupies in this world, compare that to 1930's Germany when teh collapased.

More wars are started by fiscal crisis then, religion or any conspiracy......

Rule of Law is only as good as law enforcements paychecks.....we're a thin line between civilization an anarchy......the naive tend to forget that.

Far greater impact then the most powerful nation in the world going through total economic collapse......?

Someone needs desperately to buy a history book.

Interesting point about a collapsing dollar possibly causing a return to nationalism. The people may well feel that way, but I believe that the leaders in place are all globalists and will steer things in the NWO direction.

One thing seems certain, and that's that the $ is doomed. Whether through hyperinflation or international abandonment, the tsunami of debt we've incurred spells its demise.

edit sp

[edit on 17-1-2009 by resistor]

The leaders in place in Germany before the collapse had their power shrivel as fast as the Deutche Mark.....and a completely unknown and uncared for convict domestic terrorist became suddenly their messiah over night..........there is no leader, or group of leaders as powerful as a mob with pitchforks...........again a truth that reoccurs throughout mankinds history......
Beware the power of the Mob.

The Chinese call it the "Mandate of Heaven".....every few hundreds of years a nation loses it....and it's a nice way of saying the people snap and overthrow everything and create new power until it slowly declines is corrupted and the process starts all over again......but woe it be to the generations during that anarchy....no safety, nature's violent law thrust on man, loved ones ripped apart, the worst parts of man's nature surface..............social forest fires really.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon

You are right, it's a big problem...bigger than most people think, even the ones that have taken the "red pill".

Supposedly this stock market/economic melt down engineered to destroy dollar. This will help PTB enable NAU, or SPP as it is now being called.

Mexico was recently named #1 country most likely to COLLAPSE (or number 2, I can't remember, but still!)

AND.....several foreign oil producing countries recently decided to not use the dollar as Petrodollars any more, the dollar was usually the reserve currency that was used to buy oil, by foreign countries.

Supposedly once the dollar collapses, then the Amero will be introduced at an exchange rate of only 10% of value ie if you had 1000.00 what you will get will only be worth 100.00

According to Hal Turner (I am not a fan, don't know that much about him, only went to web site about Amero, NAU now called SPP) there are already coins out called Amero, and now supposedly bills being printed by Denver money facility.

Also read big amounts Amero already shipped to CHINA....

(Tim Geithner tapped for United States Secretary of the Treasury, see partial background below, note ASIA background, also connected to Kissenger, see full background at Wiki, very interesting)

"Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York.[3] His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by Ann Dunham-Soetoro, mother of President Barack Obama, and they met in person at least once.
and
[5] Geithner spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, India and Thailand, where he completed high school at International School Bangkok.[6] He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a A.B. in government and Asian studies in 1983.[7] He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985.[7][8] He has studied Chinese[7] and Japanese.[9]"

Also read China holds a lot of our bad mortgage debt........our government passed some kind of law? giving Bank of China the right to send some kind of officials over here to EVICT homeowners.....

Also found article written about a speech given by big Communist Party Official talking about how China needed to make plans for expansion because of population and terrible pollution in China. (Pollution causing severe increase in birth defects, around 18% born with defects)

Several different COUNTRIES were mentioned as to the possibility of being TAKEN OVER to give the Chinese the opportunity to expand and escape pollution. After discussing several possibilities he stated AMERICA would be the best, then discussed the best way to GET RID of a large population, including Nuclear....but decided some type of EPIDEMIC would be best, as it would not render certain areas inhabitable. Time frame on developing this plan, about ten years....can't remember when speech was given, about 2003, I think.

A survey was done online in China about whether people would be willing to KILL innocents including women and children, around 80,000
responded, the large majority said YES. I have also read Chinese people are raised to hate Americans.

Oh, also, did you know some laws have been passed here in the US that have not been enforced yet, but waiting on the books about FOOD hoarding?

the dollar is a significant problem, but i think its just another way to keep us trapped. whenever someone mentions that we're in a matrix of sorts, the immediate thought turns to the movies and gets laughed off.
our matrix is different, and VERY simple. Each one of us is a person. unfortunately, most of us have NO idea what that really means, because a person and a human being are NOT the same thing. when you're born you are registered (birth certificate), what this is actually doing is creating a fictional legal entity, or a "person". from this point on likely to the end of our lives, we are constantly accepting liability and responsability for this person, in the form of taxes, tickets, laws, statutes, acts, ANYTHING. most people are completely unaware that NO ONE BUT GOD has authority over any of us. read your human rights.
1. All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
that means, we are ALL born free and equal. no one human being has ANY authority over another. the only reason it seems like they do is because of this "person". every country is a corporation, and all of the "persons" are technically employees. this is what gives them the power over you. this is where the "MATRIX" is. we are basically controlling fictional legal entities in a fictional legal world, instead of humans living on a geographical earth.
imagine if we all we aware of this, do you think we would accept responsability for our "persons" anymore? hell no. thus, the many many many rabbit holes of "TRUTH" for poor suckers who really just want to know why everything sucks so bad.
so, why do we have to be a part of this sinking ship?
we dont. you can drop your "person" at any time. are we part of their society? only if we choose to be. a society is a group of people joined together by mutual consent to deliberate, determine and act for a common goal. Notice how there is no mention of geographical area? Being in a certain geographical area might give you the right to join a society, however it cannot create an obligation to join. this means that our current, NAMELESS society's rules and laws have no effect on a human being, if one so chooses to drop their legal fictional identity and become a human being again.

people trust their governments and do whatever the media and powers that be tell them to. they are incapable of separating from the masses - a lot of them, and believe that if they do what everyone else does, they will be safe. they genuinely believe the government will look out for them and after their best interests. they are not capable of doing anything different to everyone else. its total brainwashing.
my father is like this.
i think a lot are.


even if they suspect that bankers are up to no good nad are feeling abit distrustful; many just cant understand taht whats on tv isnt whats best for them or the best knowledge available.

Anyone paying attention yet? The worst hasn't even started yet.

Actually I did talk about it, but I just can't dial in on it. Things keep changing, and I end up confused.

China, the largest holder of US Treasuries, Chimerica, Obama and the dollar bubble

For now, I'm just gonna wait and see.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


Sheeple
If you want to be free, truly free, do these:
1. Counterfeit money.
2. Crash capitalism.
3. Abolish money.
4. Activate the Venus Project.

reply to post by ForkandSpoon


You think, of all the topics discussed on ATS, the biggest thing that might happen is the end of the USA as we know it? Say the world ends in 2012, or is rendered otherwise unrecognizable, say by some kind of crazy spiritual awakening, or whatever. Is anyone going to care about inflation? I doubt it. Or say the government of the USA is actively preparing to jam all it's citizens into makeshift concentration camps it's been preparing (since the Nixon administration apparently, since that was when this particular theory started), using car transports, etc. If you're locked in a concentration camp, dollars aren't going to buy anything.

Among other things, many of the following beliefs are widely held here:

The world's governments are being manipulated, or are wholly composed of shapeshifting reptilian aliens who are generally not nice people

Aircraft are constantly spraying chemicals over everyone, for one or more various nefarious purposes

There exists some kind of cabalistic elite group planning to (soon) eliminate all but a tiny fraction of the world's population, whom they plan to lord over.

The antichrist is going to come, and the events in the book of revelations are going to occur, ending the world.

Any of a number of natural catastrophes are going to wipe man off the face of the earth any day now.

Are you saying all these people, representing a majority of ATS users, are all wrong?