If God exists why does he...

reply to post by ruffryda1987


Ok. Prove it....
Seeing as to how you think you got it pegged and can soo freely make such declatrations, prove to me right here right now that a higher power/prime mover/god, in terms that I couldn't argue with.

free will
we are allowed to mess up however badly we want to
if you wanted god to control everything then what would be the point

reply to post by Stumpy1


maybe he lets priests molest kids just to make a point that he thinks religion is stupid ;-)

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I think ruffryder1987 has got it nailed as I just posted on another thread all forms of religion are cult based playing off the fears of man kind as far as proving our point we dont need to where not the ones stating that something exists when it doesnt why dont you provide scientific evidence from reliable independent source that proves the existance of a god or better still show aboslute evidence that jesus even existed or if he did prove that he was reserected he was not the only one hung up on a cross back then it was a common form of punishment all christian types always put it on the non believers to prove he doesnt exist about you guys put up some evidence to prove us wrong if there was such evidence there would not be a debate about where he is real or not there would not be so many different religions around the world

Originally posted by mullet35
reply to post by WraothAscendant

 

I think ruffryder1987 has got it nailed as I just posted on another thread all forms of religion are cult based playing off the fears of man kind as far as proving our point we dont need to where not the ones stating that something exists when it doesnt why dont you provide scientific evidence from reliable independent source that proves the existance of a god or better still show aboslute evidence that jesus even existed or if he did prove that he was reserected he was not the only one hung up on a cross back then it was a common form of punishment all christian types always put it on the non believers to prove he doesnt exist about you guys put up some evidence to prove us wrong if there was such evidence there would not be a debate about where he is real or not there would not be so many different religions around the world

Muslims and Jews believe Jesus existed. They think he was a prophet though, not the son of god.

reply to post by JPhish


point taken but the proof of existance still remains and again they are still relying on people insecurities to enlist followers

[edit on 19-4-2008 by mullet35]

Thankfully God\'s existence , or lack there of , does not require our belief . It simply is what it is and our understanding , or should I say , our ability to understand , seeing through our human eyes does nothing but help us sleep at night with the idea that \" we \" know how the world works , or should work . This is a silly though and one of pure arrogance . People need to accept that there are simply things that we cant understand and the fact that we might not be able to understand some thing really doesn\'t matter to any one , or thing but ourselves .
Try one day to explain to your cat or dog just why it is you need to go to work each day and see how far you get .

Yes my friends there are some things that we are simply not capable of understanding , like our friend the dog .

reply to post by mullet35


absolutely.

Fear is omnipotent.

reply to post by Max_TO


and once again Max, it comes down to fear. People fearing what they do not understand and hence, they concoct ideas in their mind or cling to the ideas of others. But like you said. To assume that we know anything is pure hubris.

"Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods."
-Albert Einstein



[edit on 4/19/2008 by JPhish]

reply to post by WraothAscendant


I agree with you 100 percent we come to this planet to experience the human condition.

Earth is like a big play ground we chose the roles we want to get the most out of it depending of our need to learn.

Great post.

reply to post by mullet35


Ask someone to provide proof and the best, someone else, can do to leap to their aid is ask me to prove a stance I did not take.

You assume that I was trying to say such a thing does exist, you are incorrect, I merely asked for his proof that it did not.

Attempts to dodge the question will be pointed out with extreme prejudice.

So where is that proof?

[edit on 19-4-2008 by WraothAscendant]

In reverse speech, everyone believes in god. No one can lie through this.

The only true free will god gave us is the path we choose, to either go into the light or stay in darkness. You either choose to stay in the physical world (Darkness) false creation which will end or go home into the light spiritual realm..... which is the real eternal realm.

Any other beliefs are just false lies by the reptilians. God isnt perfect, and there was a celestial error which created the physical universe, but now gods coming back to take all those that belong to him, in the end its your choice, your spirit will know its path.

Any other free will is just programmed behavour, believing we are "FREE" when the sad truth is were stuck in this prison box, the sun is a CUBE not a sphere. It just spins so fast giving the ilusion of a sphere. Now you know why the aliens worship the sun. This is what keeps the robotic universe alive. This is what the Nazi flag symbolises - the spinning cube.

[edit on 19-4-2008 by StarNeon]

Ummm ... I take the stance that if there are reptilian aliens flying around in outerspace, coming to Earth, they are nothing but essentially hellspawn, a soulless group of evil beings that has reached a point in their society where all forms of evil, manipulation, and destruction are fair game, for any reason. In other words, their leader would be Satan, maybe he DOES live under the crust of the Earth lol, maybe not, but they'd definitely be the "demons" spoken of and spotted throughout human history, and where the very concept came from perhaps.

Kinda like if our own present world mentality among the people of Earth does not change into a majority who want things to be different; we too will one day carry weapons into space for the sole point of killing other beings and blowing up things. we too will go around recklessly trying to "seed" planets or manipulate primitive lifeforms. if we succeeded, we'd act like we had some form of authority over all those beings that we manipulated or helped create initially through DNA sciences/cloning/whatever.

Will anyone accept that God has been fragmented into an unknown number of "sparks of essence" for lack of a better term that give all things life, and those choice things free will? And each spark is in each person or thing, and when it dies that "spark" leaves the body, but where does it go? If God fragmented God's self to create all the physical matter in the universe as well as all of the laws of physics and all of the living, experiencing things like us, it is no wonder why God would seem so elusive as a single omnipotent being, while being noticeable in subtle ways to those who choose to follow that path. This would also mean that the destruction of the Earth, and Universe for that matter, will be required eventually for "God" to retain "God's" original form. When this happens, all those parts which are still good will return to God and become a part of God the single, as opposed to currently God the all-encompassing.

This is the New Jerusalem spoken of in Revelation; it is God's city, he will dwell in "New Jerusalem" as King, or Yeshua might, or Moshiach, take yer pick. New Jerusalem is kind-of like Heaven, or the next creation. After the destruction of this creation, the New Jerusalem is created. It is not a physical place .. unless Jerusalem is destroyed in a war, which i highly doubt because what muslim nation is going to destroy al-aqsa mosque, the dome of the rock, and the birthplace of Isa, Sulieman, David etc? Then men could bring an era of peace and rebuild Jerusalem, and name it "New" Jerusalem, much like when "York" in Ontario Canada was raized by Americans in the war of 1812, "New York" was born. "York" is now known as Toronto, Ontario.

But I think that all of our sparks do go back into God, this is why there has to be a Judgment and tribulation. If your soul is not high enough yet, you have to go through the tribulation period. Then after suffering through that, humbling you, and eventually having you find yourself and your own peace, the Judgment occurs. Why does a Judgment of all souls occur? Could it be because "God" has to check each and every spark to see if it is suitable? Ignorant, unlearned souls, who went through this world learning nothing by choice, understanding nothing by choice, and commiting murders and such, likely wouldn't be the kind of sparks that God wants as part of himself, inside his New Jerusalem, or Heaven. His throne room. God IS God's throne room. Heaven is God's massive spiritual essence, and everything which occurs there, which is all good and endless, can be manifested through what we call mere thought, because none of it is physical matter, and you're inside of the creator, tapping into the ability to create intentions. What I mean is ... fake scenarios for your spirit to go through, heck, you could even think up a mock physical human life, birth to death, and "live" through it just to experience it, then return to God.

What if this means we are projecting our lives through intent and thought, though all put together and created harmoniously by God after we come up with it all, then we get "sent down" to the physical plane, which is just a temporary creation for the purposes of experiencing. Then when we die we return and are judged on our performance, and if we did poor, perhaps we have to have the bad or the evil proverbially 'burnt out of us' through trial by fire, aka what people call hell. Which would make it temporary? But I dont believe that, I think God could purify your soul on the spot, afterall he created you. But the more people who die, the more sparks of God that return to God, and thus God gains more and more of God's original form, instead of being so dispersed and everywhere at the same time.

This centralization of essence over time increases the effect of God on man, and brings things closer to completion, that is, the end .. so that we can ALL dwell with God, be a part of God, in New Jerusalem.. created through rejoicing, and its people shall not toil in vain, for they are the seed of the blessed Father in the offspring winter, and when they ask, Yahweh shall answer, and as they are speaking, He will hear.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by runetang]

You don't want those things to happen, then you don't do them. The reason these things happen is because men want these things to happen. We're perfectly capable of living in a more peaceful world, yet we choose not to.

Why is that? well, the main reason would be there's too much focus on one's self. At least when it comes to happiness. But when it comes to problems, there's not enough focus on the self. We look to others when problems arise instead of looking to our self. You see rape as a problem, but a rapist sees rape as happiness. Has that ever dawned on you? A realization occurs, that what makes you happy may also have a similar effect on others, That they dislike what you do to make yourself happy, and see it as a problem, just like you see rape as a problem. Your ego gets in the way of you realizing that you make this world a bad place to live in just like a rapist does.

So if you want to make the world a better place, start with yourself. You have to be willing to do the right thing at all times no matter the consequences.

The OP is obviously biased against Christiantity and is just trying to see what reactions he'll get for his argumentative question. Instead of giving him the satisfaction of people arguing over religious beliefs or lack of, leave a thread like this to die and dont post. And yes I'm well aware of the irony of me posting saying to not post.

I have a few questions as well. IF there is a god then I would consider him cruel and ruthless. He (if he exists) lets hundreds die in one place while he saves one person somewhere else and then everyone praises the lord for it. Out of twelve miners trapped he "saves" one... What did the others do wrong?.. Then again... another mine collapses and he doesn't save anyone. He lets some people suffer years with illnesses and miraculously cures one person. So.... going by the random selection and the ratio of good to bad I see no evidence that god even exists. Thousands of people prey and get absolutely no response but let one person be saved from a disaster.... it's "god saved me". Put your church offerings in lottery tickets.. The odds are better. If you win, just say "god gave me the numbers".

reply to post by Larry B.


who ever said that people being buried alive in a mine is a bad thing? Maybe they were Nazi miners! And for that matter, who said that Nazis are bad? Maybe jews are evil! And who says that Jews are evil??? maybe Jesus was evil incarnate!!!~

do you see my point? your logic seems flawed my friend.

[edit on 4/20/2008 by JPhish]

Originally posted by Larry B.
I have a few questions as well. IF there is a god then I would consider him cruel and ruthless. He (if he exists) lets hundreds die in one place while he saves one person somewhere else and then everyone praises the lord for it. Out of twelve miners trapped he "saves" one... What did the others do wrong?.. Then again... another mine collapses and he doesn't save anyone. He lets some people suffer years with illnesses and miraculously cures one person. So.... going by the random selection and the ratio of good to bad I see no evidence that god even exists. Thousands of people prey and get absolutely no response but let one person be saved from a disaster.... it's "god saved me". Put your church offerings in lottery tickets.. The odds are better. If you win, just say "god gave me the numbers".

What would a omnipotent God owe you? Why would He save even the one miner? What worth could that one miner possibly repay Him? Did you earn "being"? Is not any simple pleasure you've experienced while "being" a gift? Who are you to tell an omnipotent God what should be done? Can't an omnipotent God do as He pleases, showing grace to one, and not to another? If I give one dollar to a beggar, but not to the others, do I somehow "owe" the other beggars something? Did I owe the first beggar that did receive a gift? Does a dog deserve to be sentient? Does a snail deserve to be a dog? Your argument is so petty, it'd be laughable if it wasn't sad. "God should do circus tricks to make me happy and ensure my longevity and happiness IF He even exists. And not just me, but all my friends," while out of the other side of your mouth you say, "Even IF He exists why would I give Him anything?"


[edit on 20-4-2008 by _Del_]

reply to post by _Del_


well said

reply to post by _Del_

I guess my point is: How can we put faith in a god the just picks and chooses who he wants to save, cure or help at random? Maybe he flips a coin or draws straws. I know some very religious folks that have had terrible things happen to them while others cheat and lie their way to prosperity. The evidence I see is, god doesn't control or do anything.

Originally posted by Larry B.
I guess my point is: How can we put faith in a god the just picks and chooses who he wants to save, cure or help at random? Maybe he flips a coin or draws straws. I know some very religious folks that have had terrible things happen to them while others cheat and lie their way to prosperity. The evidence I see is, god doesn't control or do anything.

How could you possibly presume that it's random? How can you know there isn't a greater good achieved in His purpose? And again, why would God owe even a religious person anything? Are religious people so good that God owes them prosperity? Is possible that God grows people through hardship: that He prunes trees so they might grow in full? Isn't it possible that God gifts the afflicted with things never to be known by the liars and cheaters in your example? Does being religious entitle someone to better treatment than a liar or cheater? Aren't in fact even religious people liars and cheaters? Is the prosperity achieved by liars and cheaters so important that it is a huge blessing and sign of approval, or are certain things held in higher esteem than prosperity? Again the question I would pose is not "Why didn't God save the other nine miners?" or "Why didn't God prosper everyone?" The question I'd pose is "Why would God save even the one?" or "Why would God prosper anyone?"
If I plant three seeds in my backyard garden and I water one daily, the other one monthly and let the other one persist in drought, which one did I mistreat? Did the drought afflicted seed deserve/earn water? Did the watered seed? If I keep bugs away from the one, but let them eat the other, did I somehow wrong the bug eaten one or is that my right as a gardner? What if I was an entomologist as well as a gardner? What if my purpose was to feed the insects, and prosper the plants at the same time? Would my plants instictively know this?
If I prune one apple tree but not the other, so that one grows fuller while the other stagnates, did I wrong either tree? Did I wrong the pruned tree by trimming it? Did I wrong the other by not trimming it so it would not grow?




[edit on 20-4-2008 by _Del_]

[edit on 20-4-2008 by _Del_]