A contradiction in the bible

Originally posted by Raphael
The Sword is The Spirit of God, His Word is his Sword.

Helpme, I'm confused...is the sword 'his' spirit or his 'word'?

Originally posted by fndherway

You can trust the science you read in a text book that may or may not have been proven, but it's funny how you refuse to trust the Word of God that has outlasted most scientific studies.

It may have outlasted many 'scientific studies', but it sure doesn't stand upto scientific scrutiny.
As soon as one starts 'dealing' with the 'supernatural' they areoutside the realms of science and cannot be reconciled.

IMO, it's all a have, part of the way to control a population.

Originally posted by ReginaAdonna

The Kingdom Message of Salvation is the Truth and validity of the Bible as a whole.

Nice advertisement.

You poor misguided person.
I had a look at your link and it looks like nasty fundamentalism complete with blinkers.

I choose not to accept what you say. The bible is NOT the word of 'god'.
It contains a potted history of a people, and various ways of controlling people, depending on the situation:wars, 'supernatural' happenings, love even. But, IT IS NOT FROM 'god'.
It is only valid as a historical manuscript.
But, this is only my opinion. I don't expect you to agree with it, as I don't agree with your opinion.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Matthew 28:19 (KJV)

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, Baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Note: Name is singular.

reply to post by J.Smit

From what I understand there is something written about Jesus interacting with himself in heaven, but so far I can't find it.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by 1337cshacker

 

As stated in this thread the trinity did not become doctrine until the 3rd century hundreds of years After the death of Christ and his disciples. If this was important to Christ you would think that he would have made a point for this belief in his time, not hundreds of years later.

1 John 5:7 (KJV- left out of later translations, to have them obtain the same view that you have):

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

Now it may be easy to claim this to mean that they are merely in agreement: however, just one verse on, that idea is debunked, swiftly and efficiently:

"And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." (1 John 5:8, KJV)

Then, of course, there is also the Gospel of st. John, chapters 14-16.

Peace be unto you.

Originally posted by AotearoaSon

Originally posted by Raphael
The Sword is The Spirit of God, His Word is his Sword.

Helpme, I'm confused...is the sword 'his' spirit or his 'word'?

And well you should be confused. The sword of the spirit is the written word of God, which He expects mankind to think over day and night.

The Holy Ghost himself, is the comforter (st. John 16:7) and the guide (st. John 16:13), sent by God (st. John 15:26).

Then, concerning the Father and the Son being one, st. John 1:1-5 may be compared to Genesis 1:1-3; and st. John 14:26, st. John 15:26 and st. John 16:7-15.

With Love.

Different parts of the same body and like different parts of a room a house or the world but still one. I think if God is made of One then he lacks dimentions and if man was one then he would be a limb and have no head to think. We are one but can produce sons and daughters aswell through our own blood. Depends how you see it but hope I see it the right way.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
reply to post by J.Smit

 

From what I understand there is something written about Jesus interacting with himself in heaven, but so far I can't find it.

Revelation 5
The Scroll and the Lamb

www.biblegateway.com...

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by The time lord We are one but can produce sons and daughters aswell through our own blood. Depends how you see it but hope I see it the right way.

The way I see it is that...

It takes TWO people to make sons and daughters and not with blood, but with sperm and egg.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by The time lord We are one but can produce sons and daughters aswell through our own blood. Depends how you see it but hope I see it the right way.

The way I see it is that...

It takes TWO people to make sons and daughters and not with blood, but with sperm and egg.

DNA makes all parts of the body, some people just call it blood or life blood so in a way all our cells could produce a clone of our selves if science allows as DNA from hair or finger print still is able to track where they cam from.

reply to post by LDragonFire


what apostate "christianity" teaches and what you find in the scriptures are 2 different things------------the Holy scriptures no-where teaches the trinity-------(what some translaters have done in some of their versions is another matter that they will answer for when Messiah returns)------it is a man made assumption-----------the bible teaches that there are presently 2 Beings in the G-D family and a host of angels and other creatures They have made---some beast looking-----------and then They made us as a clay mold image of Themselves that has the potential to be transformed into G-D Beings.the Holy spirit is not a person ----------scripture indicates that it is the power/energy/force/mind power of G-D that They use as a tool to accomplish Their will throughout the universe. our material world of matter is transformation of Spirit into what we know---and the laws and forces we are familiar with:magnetism/gravity/electricity/inertia/thermodynanics/radiation/wind------etc.---all kinds of invisible laws and physical energies

"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

"If I testify about myself, my testimony is not valid." (John 5:31)
"Jesus answered: Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid." (John 8:14)

"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world." (John 9:39)
"I came not to judge the world" (John 12:47)

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 5:16)
"Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 6:1)

"Jacob said, 'I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.'" (Genesis 32:30)
"No man hath seen God at any time." (John 1:18)

We should fear God (Matthew 10:28)
We should love God (Matthew 22:37)
There is no fear in love (1 John 4:18)
more contradictions

Contradictions abound, just open your eyes and look.

reply to post by LDragonFire


Ok, I'm not going to read through the full 11 pages of this thread as I don't have time, so please forgive me if this has been brought up.

The idea of the Holy Trinity was believed by some theologists to have been generated around the 3rd century during the rapid spread of christianity through Europe.

At the time the majority of belief systems were based around multiple seperate beings (Sun gods, moon gods etc.). The idea that there was a single entity that achieved the same as their seperate gods was a very alien concept to these groups. One method that was attempted in order to ingrain the christian ideology was to seperate the single god int three beings, with each being part of the whole. While not completely seperate beings, the existence of three versions of the same being made some of the more difficult concepts of the christian teachings easier to understand.

reply to post by LDragonFire


The only "so called" contradictions in the bible are the poor and sometimes intended mistranslation of the original text. Beware of those who "divide" the word of God for their own purpose.

Many choose to quote only out of context lines from the text to suit thier own selfish interest. One must read and understand the original "subject" of the verses that may be many lines previous.

The easiest example is "thou shall not kill" should be "thou shall not murder"!

There is no Trinity that equals "one" nor is there any up comng "rapture".

The "trinity" denies the true existence of God the Father, His son Jesus who took human form to save the tribe of Israel from death, and the holy spirit to comfort man until Jesus returns to kill evil on this planet forever ...........

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you can't explain the doctrine correctly, it's nonsensical in nature

1=1
3=1
1=3

that doesn't make sense!
especially since characters 2 and 3 only appeared about 2/3rds of the way into the story..

you are looking at it through our limited eyes, using our limited vocabulary and understanding

For instance, even in our limited world, ice=water=vapour, 3 into one, bingo bango- not separate but connected, and this in our limited earth world

Behold brother free yourself from your mental shackles!

Originally posted by AotearoaSon

Originally posted by Raphael
The Sword is The Spirit of God, His Word is his Sword.

Helpme, I'm confused...is the sword 'his' spirit or his 'word'?

The Word resides in The Spirit of God which is a Sword Flaming, and it is pointing in every direction seeking love and truth. SHE comes to your dwelling bearing gifts of salvation. She controls the dead and gives over souls to The Father.

[edit on 12-12-2007 by Raphael]

reply to post by LDragonFire


I think you will find that most of the contradictions will vanish into thin air if the context of each verse quoted is considered. Its all about context and the fact that most of words can have more than one meaning.

the word "Forever" for instance cn also be translated as "Time Indefinte"
meaning just that, "An indefinate period of time". This would obviously have a toatally different meaning than "Forever". So the context needs to be considered and more than one translation should be consulted.

I will try to get back to this later. No time right now.

Originally posted by LDragonFire

"For I am merciful, saith the Lord, and I will not keep anger forever." (Jeremiah 3:12)
"Ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn forever." (Jeremiah 17:4)

Contradictions abound, just open your eyes and look.

Regarding the seeming contradiction in Jeremiah 3:12 & Jer 17:4:

It is not difficult to resolve this. One can do so simply by understanding the meaning of the Hebrew word used in these instances where most translations use "Forever"

The Hebrew word ‛oh·lam´ carries the thought of indefinite or uncertain time.

Lexicographer Gesenius defines it as meaning "hidden time, i.e. obscure and long, of which the beginning or end is uncertain or indefinite."

(A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, translated by E. Robinson, 1836, p. 746) sorry no online source for this.

Therefore, expressions such as "time indefinite", "indefinitely lasting", "of old" , "a long time ago," "of long ago", and "long-lasting" , appropriately convey the thought of the original language term.

It is important to keep in mind that the Hebrew expression ‛oh·lam´ does not in itself mean "forever." It often refers to things that have an end, but the period of such things’ existence can be said to be ‘to time indefinite’ because the time of their end is not then specified.

How is this word used in other passages where "Forever" would not be an accurate use?
Here is a good example, the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Law covenant came to an end with Jesus’ death and the bringing in of a new covenant. And the ‘indefinitely lasting’ Aaronic priesthood similarly came to an end.

oh·lam is found in both of these instances where "indefinately lasting" is implied. It Can't be forever because the Aaronic Priesthood has been abolished.

Wesleys Notes on this passage support the idea that the Hebrew word inferred the idea of "a long time"

Wesley's Notes on the Bible

4 And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever.

17:4 For ever - For a long time; so the word ever is often taken.

wes.biblecommenter.com...

So if you look at the context and understand the other meanings of this word, "oh·lam´" The seeming contradiction can easily be dismissed.


[edit on 12-12-2007 by Sparky63]

Originally posted by LDragonFire

"And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth." (Matthew 28:18)
"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

And Jesus said, "For judgement I am come into this world." (John 9:39)
"I came not to judge the world" (John 12:47)

Contradictions abound, just open your eyes and look.

Regarding the verses above:

Following Jesus’ death on earth and his resurrection, he said: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth." (Matthew 28:18) Yes, Jesus has been granted the ability and the right to exercise power universally. As "King of kings and Lord of lords," he has been authorized to bring to "nothing all government and all authority and power"—visible and invisible—that stand in opposition to his Father. In his exaulted position now as the King of the very kindom that is mentioned in the the first few lines of the "Lords Prayer", he will act decisively at the right time, to destroy Satan and the "World " that he controls.

This is where an understanding of the word "World" used in 1John 5:19 is needed.

"the whole world is under control of the evil one." (1 John 5:19)

What is t this World that Satan has control over? Well, Paul used the Greek word "Ko'smos" here. Why did he choose to use this word? What meaning woujld it have conveyed to his audience? Well, Paul used the same word in Rom 11:12-15 in reference to the people of the nations whao are not in a covenant relationship with God.

Similarly, with great frequency, ko´smos is used to signify all non-Christian human society, regardless of race. This is the world that hated Jesus and his followers because they bore witness concerning its unrighteousness and because they maintained separateness from it.

So JEsus was referring to the world under Satans influence when he stated at John 7:7

. 7 The world has no reason to hate YOU, but it hates me, because I bear witness concerning it that its works are wicked.

Over this world of unrighteous human society and its kingdoms, God’s Adversary, Satan the Devil, exercises rulership; in fact, he has made himself "the god" or ruler of this world that is alienated from God as all these scriptures clearly satate: . (Mt 4:8, 9; Joh 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; compare 2Co 4:4.)

So I do not see any contradiction in these two scriptures you mentioned. The context must always be considered. It is easy to throw out a couple of scriptures that sound the same and then jump to the conclusion that it is a clear contradiction. In fact there anre many web pages that do just that, but if one is truly interested in having an accurate understanding genuine research is needed, since most of us, myself included are not Hebrew or Greek scholars.

Heck, most of the time I can't even spell correctly.



[edit on 12-12-2007 by Sparky63]