The Greatest lie ever told - The Bible

Originally posted by dAlen
First, good for you - its good to be realistic and ask questions.

For evangelical Christians, they will say the Bible should be taken literal no matter what.
However Judaism holds that it shouldnt be taken literal, and that the creation story is on 4 levels of understanding...known as P.R.D.S. (wont go into this now, but think of the first level as 'parable' level. - which fits with the Christian Jesus, so I dont know why Christians have such an issue with this...well, actually I do - and I wont go into that now either.)

So, you would think the modern evangelical movement would go for understanding of their 'Word' by studying what the people who had it before them (the Jews). In reality, modern day evangelical Christianity is a modern creation (and no, its not true to Pauls teaching if you would understand some aspects of Judaism a bit better.)

NOW...having said that. I am not implying that the Jews have the truth on their interpretation of the parable of the garden, if you will.

But the point isnt any longer is it true or not...but what is it pointing to?
How does the symbols line up with cosmology in general? With science?
Is that rib really a symbol for 'God' taking a dna strand?

What is God...Im sure you have noticed the inconsistent nature of an all powerful God who seems to be jealous and worried that man will be 'like one of us'.

So good for you...at least you have an open mind on this.

Now on the other hand, to go to try to evangelize the evangelicals and point out their fault will only cause a deeper divide (not saying you did that...)

Every person has the ability to grasp reality from the perspective that they have on life...so the truth is available to all (as the 'good book says'..."he lets the rain fall on the good and the bad")

The only issue could potentially be, if people choose to keep looking - like the blind man touching one part of the elephant and describing what he thinks the whole is and getting it all wrong - well same with religion, they get one part of the puzzle and potentially miss out on the wealth of the journey of finding the rest. ("seek and you will find when you search with all your heart"...not "when you search within the safety of your walls")

So having said that...

Peace

dAlen

OK you bring up the not everything in the Bible is literal argument. In that case, how do you know what anything in the Bible actually means? How do you know that when it says that Jesus is the son of God, that it's not actually a metaphor for Jesus is the daughter of God, or that Jesus enjoys sexual orgies with dildos and cream pie?

If you want to consider the Bible as a non-literal source, then you have to concede that it actually means nothing, because you don't know what anything means.

Oh, and the Catholic Church officials from a few hundred years ago would disagree with you. They thought that the Earth was flat and that the sun revolved around the Earth. Numerous writings confirm this. They even tried to have many scientists such as Galileo executed for saying that they were wrong. Even Martin Luther is quoted as calling Galileo a fool for believing that the sun revolved around the Earth, so this wasn't just a 1 denominational belief; all Christians believed this, and those that didn't were threatened with execution. Now, those passages are non-literal though lol Strangely, our interpretation of the Bible only changes when religious people start to be taken as nutjobs for believing otherwise.

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by 7seven
reply to post by WraothAscendant

 

Well when the general accepted theory in science is that humans evolved from Apes, and the accepted religious belief (christianity) is that we were created by God, coming from Adams rib, i find it hard to see how you could believe in both science and religion?


[edit on 23-9-2007 by 7seven]

It seems to be that some science believe that life on earth started from the sea.
Interesting when you think that the ocean and its life was created before the land animals.

Then the aquatic life evolved to lizards...they learn to fly and then humans came from these...perhaps lizards and not monkeys... ;-)

As for the ribs, check out the post above I wrote...maybe its dna.
The 'gods' were in some genetic lab making humans...not to far fetched, its possible today. - fits in with a board like ATS devoted to alien mysteries too.

Peace

dAlen

Right, an intelligent designer, instead of just creating us, created us through the complex and unefficient method of evolution :rolleyes: Instead of just making us in a lab in about 5 minutes, they decided to use a piss-poor method that only required them to wait a few billion years Face it, we're just carbon-based machines constructed out of random chemical reactions. When we die, we die the same way your cell phone does if you cut a wire. Free choice doesn't exist and there's nothing special about any of us. You're just as meaningful as a spec of dust in Alpha Centauri.

[edit on 9/23/07 by RedDragon]

reply to post by dAlen


Perhaps this aquatic evolutionary process could be true... nobody can be 100% certain i guess. but i can say with confidence i would tend to believe a million explanations before any organised religion. At least the alien theories are an interesting read

Originally posted by RedDragon
If you want to consider the Bible as a non-literal source, then you have to concede that it actually means nothing, because you don't know what anything means.

I think perhaps we are looking at it differently.

For me, I like to look at literature from all religions, etc. and find what they have in common.

See, a lie is mixed with truth...and mythology is based on some form of cosmology...or in better terms, lack of understanding of how things actually work.

None the less...it is a pointer, as mentioned, and a guide of sorts, to at least begin forming some kind of picture with what we also know with science today.

Perhaps not the clearest...but the point is in there.

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by RedDragon
Right, an intelligent designer, instead of just creating us, created us through the complex and unefficient method of evolution :rolleyes:

uhmm, again, I think your not quite seeing where Im coming from.
Im not an evangelical...

Never said anything about an intelligent designer...I did mention advanced people from only 'God' knows where (pun intended), creating in their lab humans.

I love to watch what science is doing today...we are at the stage we can create humans 'in our image' and to extend life to some degree, as well as some great potential for nano healthcare.

So...Im not coming from this from a 'religious' perspective at all...but as an observer of what religious material share in common and how it relates with potential science and technology that we have today (and of course, imagination)

Peace

dAlen

Yackity yack yack yack.
I find I don't have the wish to argue with you Red Dragon. It serves no good purpose, I would just end up repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..

By all means believe what egotistical foolishness you want. But. science has not disproven (nor the other side proven) the possiblity of the spiritual no matter how you people (and those people) mince words and twist things to mean what you want them to mean.

By all means conitnue preaching your truth is the only truth that can be and your ego masterbation. Just excuse me if I cease in paying attention.

Originally posted by infamouskiller
reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel

 

Those are not the 1st two books of the bible those are what they allowed to be the 1st book.

Emporer Constatine threw out many books before them.

You mean you are telling me that these are not the first two books ?? the the authors of the Bible had other options and choose to ignore these wow shock horror!!! How can you throw away the Word of God and not use them all??? how/why because the agenda's of men decide what made it and what didn't.

reply to post by 7seven

I agree with you that science does not provide any adequate explanation for spiritual matters, however i dont think the bible does either, which is what we are discussing here.

Gotta call BS on you there. You later say you don't believe in any sort of spiritual existance. So which is it?

i also point out to the people discussing above (even tho it may not be my express view..teehee i love devils advocate)

The Theory of Evolution is just that a Theory which also has a few holes in it..

Every single theory on the creation of everything Breaks down at some point... there is always 1 fact that has to be taken on faith alone ALWAYS!!

i would just rather put my faith in scientific methods rather than believe in the boogeyman just because a book say's he lives under my bed :p

Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
i also point out to the people discussing above (even tho it may not be my express view..teehee i love devils advocate)
The Theory of Evolution is just that a Theory which also has a few holes in it..
Every single theory on the creation of everything Breaks down at some point... there is always 1 fact that has to be taken on faith alone ALWAYS!!
i would just rather put my faith in scientific methods rather than believe in the boogeyman just because a book say's he lives under my bed :p

Thats fine. Your allowed to believe what you want.
And sorry your the one who just stated as fact that we cease to exist at death.

And yea. Might as well believe Sauron is going to try to enslave you soon with his orcs.
But there can be little pearls of truth amongst the trash. And too many people like to try to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Or more accurately the diamond out with the gravel.

Anyone who wants proof of good just sign up for the military, when on the battlefield and your arm, leg or whatever gets blown clear off the first thing you're likely to scream is Oh God!?

Im not saying I subscribe whole heartedly to the Christian tradition but to say there is no god without proof is arrogant and ignorant. Why should God prove himself to anyone? The very idea of God is an all powerful all knowing being, he doesnt need you to acknowledge that he is. At some point or another everyone falls deep into darkness and when they have nothing they will ask god for help. Ive spoken to atheists that admit to having asked god for help as a last resort.

According to Catholics if you devote your life to God and live as best in Jesus' image as possible God will make himself known to you. This could be a bunch of who ha, but I see no reason for God to prove himself the common spiteful non-believer. I feel that I am rambling a bit but that's just my two cents on the God debunkers.

Originally posted by Kenpachi
Anyone who wants proof of good just sign up for the military, when on the battlefield and your arm, leg or whatever gets blown clear off the first thing you're likely to scream is Oh God!?

This constitutes proof?

Im not saying I subscribe whole heartedly to the Christian tradition but to say there is no god without proof is arrogant and ignorant.

There is no proof that the tooth fairy exists, therefore there is no tooth fairy. How is that arrogant or ignorant?

...but that's just my two cents on the God debunkers.

Great. Now what about the topic of this thread...the Bible?

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Thats fine. Your allowed to believe what you want.
And sorry your the one who just stated as fact that we cease to exist at death.

And yea. Might as well believe Sauron is going to try to enslave you soon with his orcs.
But there can be little pearls of truth amongst the trash. And too many people like to try to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Or more accurately the diamond out with the gravel.

er excuse me i think your confusing me with someone else ^read up ^

not one of my posts says we cease to exist after we die ty

www.atheistnetwork.com... By Rook Hawkins.

Enjoy.


Also, believing the bible is inerrant is an extremely foolish thing to do. Since the only thing that tells you that is itself. This is circular reasoning, and is not safe to base a claim from.

[edit on 9/23/2007 by Rytak]

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Yackity yack yack yack.
I find I don't have the wish to argue with you Red Dragon. It serves no good purpose, I would just end up repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..

By all means believe what egotistical foolishness you want. But. science has not disproven (nor the other side proven) the possiblity of the spiritual no matter how you people (and those people) mince words and twist things to mean what you want them to mean.

By all means conitnue preaching your truth is the only truth that can be and your ego masterbation. Just excuse me if I cease in paying attention.

We haven't disproven the fact that the guy in the insane asylum was once Super Man either. You'd have to be pretty dumb to think he was though because there's no evidence supporting it. Believing in something when there's a net of 0 evidence is by definition, "stupid" and "insane".

Originally posted by WraothAscendant
Yackity yack yack yack.
I find I don't have the wish to argue with you Red Dragon. It serves no good purpose, I would just end up repeating myself over and over and over and over and over and over and over again..

By all means believe what egotistical foolishness you want. But. science has not disproven (nor the other side proven) the possiblity of the spiritual no matter how you people (and those people) mince words and twist things to mean what you want them to mean.

By all means conitnue preaching your truth is the only truth that can be and your ego masterbation. Just excuse me if I cease in paying attention.

Oh, and there is actually tons of evidence against spiritual stuff existing. Check this thread out:

www.belowtopsecret.com...

We've been able to prove that all spiritual experiences are the result of chemical inbalances in the brain and are actually delusions and hallucinations, and like most mental diseases, it is a largely genetic occurance.

Originally posted by dAlen

Originally posted by RedDragon
If you want to consider the Bible as a non-literal source, then you have to concede that it actually means nothing, because you don't know what anything means.

I think perhaps we are looking at it differently.

For me, I like to look at literature from all religions, etc. and find what they have in common.

See, a lie is mixed with truth...and mythology is based on some form of cosmology...or in better terms, lack of understanding of how things actually work.

None the less...it is a pointer, as mentioned, and a guide of sorts, to at least begin forming some kind of picture with what we also know with science today.

Perhaps not the clearest...but the point is in there.

Peace

dAlen

You've no evidence that there is truth within the lies.. Whenever you understand this, your IQ will jump a few points. No evidence = Insane. There's no wisdom or even anything to be respected about ignorant people thousands of years ago trying to create ideas on how the Universe works when they had no evidence to work with. Not recognizing this leads to beliefs that are categorically insane.

[edit on 9/23/07 by RedDragon]

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel


My Dear Quantum_Squirrel you must be a “Prosecuting Attorney” some where. You use the same tactics, throwing a multitude of accusations and back them with redirick in hope that no one would see your weak case and give you a victory in the public areana in one small piont. Which you will count in as a victory of your entier case.

You may think your redirick will fool the “Real Judge” :JAH, Aka Jesus. How ever Satan has tried that same trick and lost.
.

Quantum my simple simple friend, listen close here and all others too, the bibile is written in hebrew by hebrews but all they did was REWRITE the sumerian tablets! the sumerian tablets is the real bible. genesis was when the planet nibiru or planet x aka planet of the crossing, which is why we have the cross in catholic religeon! becuase our god or gods came from the planet of the crossings and the catholic church took this and binded it with there own made up religeon for control, adam had 24 ribs, no he had

24 strands of dna, every human has 24 strands of dna, thats what they were talking about, we have 24 but only 4 are active thats why most people are not physic or have special powers because our dna is suppressed. Now Noah took all of the species, yes, he dident take them literally he took there dna, you must understand, when our gods created us all they did was make computers, we are quantum computers and our dna are programs, all they did was program organic materials, vey simple, interbred with us for various reasons, then created the great

flood because man was too evil like we still are today, so he wanted to kill man off, now our gods are coming back 2012, they come every 3600-4000 years to either aid or kill us. bye bye

[edit on 23-9-2007 by K-illuminati]

the bible is a cryptic, not a lie. The stories represent things, maybe not accurate to what the stories speak of, but then your taking from english as well. Go do some cross referencing. I think you would be more intigued to find its more detailed than what you think. I dont take all things in the bible as literal, just stories to convey a way to live, unfortunately people like you distort via an emotional discontentness with the words.