Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming

Source Link: news.nationalgeographic.com

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human- induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Hmmmmm, I wonder who did this study. The folks at Exxon?

This is actually an interesting story. I'll be curious to follow it and see it's validity.

Here we go.

More evidence that may refute the notion that global warming is being caused by human activities.

Bottom line is that if humans aren't causing global warming, then humans can't be tasked with fixing the problem - despite the preaching and movie making of Al Gore and others who owe their livelihoods to fearmongering this issue.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Here we go.

More evidence that may refute the notion that global warming is being caused by human activities.

Bottom line is that if humans aren't causing global warming, then humans can't be tasked with fixing the problem - despite the preaching and movie making of Al Gore and others who owe their livelihoods to fearmongering this issue.

I'm not sure which way to go on this issue. The studies that show that man is responsible, really does make sense. That being said, this is really interesting.
Nice Post.

Thanks!

Here's a little more from the source:

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

Solar Cycles

Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.

Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.

Intriguing to say the least. There have been many reports of unusual solar flare activity as of late. Might be something to it.

Originally posted by lombozo
Hmmmmm, I wonder who did this study. The folks at Exxon?

Some scientific method you have there. Just automatically throw out any result or data that does not jive with your explanation as irrevalent or faked. Sorry I'm picking on you lombozo, your statement is reflective of what many "humans are the only cause of GW" crowd seem to say.

What if there is multiple sets of data that seems to imply that much of our solar system is getting warmer? What would you make of that? Just putting that out there for thought.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming

Source Link: news.nationalgeographic.com

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human- induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Now tell us something we already did not know. This is good for a laugh. Hell at least half of the planet have been saying the same thing for years.

i thought that nasa said the caps on mars are permenantly frozen? oh and just a thought while were talking about caps melting when ice melts in a glass doesnt the water level go down????

Originally posted by lombozo
Hmmmmm, I wonder who did this study. The folks at Exxon?

This is actually an interesting story. I'll be curious to follow it and see it's validity.

No....it was actually Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, and he is not alone in saying this. As a matter of fact, on the international Science meeting on Climate Change held in Moscow in 2005, the Russian scientists put to shame the Brittish representative when he started allegations that mankind has caused Global Warming. Do a search online if you are interested to find what happened and what was said.

There are many scientists from all around the world who don't think mankind caused Climate Change, which is what it should be called.

During the Holocene time period, the last 10,000 years, Earth has had about two dozen or so Climate Shifts, Climate Changes, sometimes it has been warmer, at other times cooler. In the overall it has been a warming trend since Earth came out of the last Ice Age. Several times throughout this time period there have been abrupt Climate Changes and sea levels have risen suddenly, only to be stopped by shifts in the climate to cold for several hundred years.

There have been occasions, before mankind had factories, cars or AC, when the changes have happened within a decade, and have brought dramatic weather events in the past which mankind had to adapt to.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Looks like you spin doctors didn't bother to view page two.

"His views are completely at odds with the mainstream scientific opinion," said Colin Wilson, a planetary physicist at England's Oxford University.

"And they contradict the extensive evidence presented in the most recent IPCC [Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change] report."
Just about the whole second page of that article debunks the Russian scientist.

No matter what is causing global warming this time, I think humans have to take some responsibility for the damage we're doing to the environment.

I used to fly into Los Angeles fairly frequently, and I was always amazed a the brown dome of smog over the city. You can't tell me that that haze isn't having an impact on the planet.

We can only push it so far before it comes back to bite us.

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

I find it amusing that the nay-sayers are falling all over themselves to completely accept Abdussamatov's conclusions, while leveling the “quackery” accusation at the vast majority of the scientific community who disagree.

If any scientist asserted that global warming was occurring on earth, based solely upon evidence of diminishing ice at the poles for “three summers in a row”, he’d be laughed off the stage.

How does Abdussamatov address the fact that, as the article mentions, the polar changes could be the result of small alterations in the planet's orbit and tilt? Why does he assume the atmospheric behavior of the two planets would operate in the same manner to solar irradiance? Even if you give him the benefit of the doubt and assume solar irradiance is the cause of global temperature increase, how does he know by how much? Is it the same for both planets? Why are anthropogenic causes excluded merely by the presence of naturally occurring ones?

He’s a lonely voice in the woods for a reason.

Well, for one thing, we haven't had satellites orbiting Mars for as long as we have the earth, so the data is what it is. Doesn't make it wrong just because the sample size is small.

And if your comment about polar changes due to tilt, etc. is true for Mars, then why not also possible for the earth?

If you've been ready all the threads on the GW controversy, the voice is not so lonely.

[edit on 3/2/2007 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Well, for one thing, we haven't had satellites orbiting Mars for as long as we have the earth, so the data is what it is. Doesn't make it wrong just because the sample size is small.

And if your comment about polar changes due to tilt, etc. is true for Mars, then why not also possible for the earth?

Mars doesn't have a moon to stabilize its orbit (precession) like the Earth's. Its tilt/wobble is therefore more severe.

I think.

[edit on 2-3-2007 by Rren]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Doesn't make it wrong just because the sample size is small.

Are you kidding me?

I notice you pass over the questions I asked, even if you assume he is partially right...

Originally posted by centurion1211
And if your comment about polar changes due to tilt, etc. is true for Mars, then why not also possible for the earth?

Congratulations! You just discovered why we have summer and winter seasons.




[edit on 2-3-2007 by loam]

No.

I've just proved that I still retain an open mind on this subject, and therefore have not made a political choice to cast any blame (yet), nor am I trying to force changes on my fellow humans for something they may not be responsible for.

Hint: open mind = good, closed mind = bad.

All I am saying is that there is some evidence for other factors other than just humanity factoring into GW. Is it beyond the pale that a number of events could be contributing to GW? I am assuming there has been a way to measure the Sun's output that have been measured since probably at least the 60's haven't there? I am also assuming there is geologic and or fossil records that would give insight into the Sun's more distant history. What do those records indicate regarding the Sun's output?

I am not above ruling out humans as a cause of GW, just as I am not above ruling out other mechanisms along with it.


[edit on 2-3-2007 by pavil]

Originally posted by centurion1211
Hint: open mind = good, closed mind = bad.

Save the rolly eyes.

Your consistency is hardly compelling…

Originally posted by centurion1211
..despite the preaching and movie making of Al Gore and others who owe their livelihoods to fearmongering this issue…

How’d you get there if you had an open mind?

Originally posted by pavil
I am not above ruling out humans as a cause of GW, just as I am not above ruling out other mechanisms along with it.

Exactly.

There may be concurrent causes, contributing in different proportions, to the problem.

The evidence for anthropogenic causes, as being the most relevant, is fairly compelling...even if not conclusive.

If we are going to know, it won't be from the pseudo-scientific ramblings of those who wish to avoid at all costs the consideration of the anthropogenic causes.


[edit on 2-3-2007 by loam]