Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming

Originally posted by sardion2000
.............
Since everyone is cherry picking today, I though I'd join in.

All quotes below are from the original article.

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block in Abdussamatov's theory is his dismissal of the greenhouse effect, in which atmospheric gases such as carbon dioxide help keep heat trapped near the planet's surface.

He claims that carbon dioxide has only a small influence on Earth's climate and virtually no influence on Mars.

But "without the greenhouse effect there would be very little, if any, life on Earth, since our planet would pretty much be a big ball of ice," said Evan, of the University of Wisconsin.

That's a big stumbling block.

I am pretty sure that in that article they are "cherry picking" what to say about Abdusamatov's statements.

In another article before the one linked to in this thread Abdusamatov states.

Rising levels of carbon dioxide and other gases emitted through human activities, believed by scientists to trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere, are an effect rather than the cause of global warming, a prominent Russian scientist said Monday.

Habibullo Abdusamatov, head of the space research laboratory at the St. Petersburg-based Pulkovo Observatory, said global warming stems from an increase in the sun's activity. His view contradicts the international scientific consensus that climate change is attributable to the emission of greenhouse gases generated by industrial activities, such as the burning of fossil fuels and deforestation.

"Global warming results not from the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, but from an unusually high level of solar radiation and a lengthy - almost throughout the last century - growth in its intensity," Abdusamatov told RIA Novosti in an interview.

"It is no secret that when they go up, temperatures in the world's oceans trigger the emission of large amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. So the common view that man's industrial activity is a deciding factor in global warming has emerged from a misinterpretation of cause and effect relations."

en.rian.ru...

He has been refering to anthropogenic CO2 emissions...of course anthropogenic emissions on Mars are not causing the planet to heat up.....

It is very possible the jounalist in the original article of this thread, and some others are apparently "cherry picking and not being truthful" as to what Abdusamatov has been saying.



[edit on 5-3-2007 by Muaddib]

BTW, Mars' atmosphere is 95.32% CO2 as another member said. How is the warming that Mars, among other planets and moons in our solar system are undergoing, being caused by CO2 on Mars if Mars' atmosphere already is composed of 95.32% CO2?

How about the warming on Triton? or Pluto?

MIT researcher finds evidence of global warming on Neptune's largest moon
June 24, 1998

CAMBRIDGE, Mass. -- We're not the only ones experiencing global warming. A Massachusetts Institute of Technology researcher has reported that observations obtained by NASA's Hubble Space Telescope and ground-based instruments reveal that Neptune's largest moon, Triton, seems to have heated up significantly since the Voyager space probe visited it in 1989. The warming trend is causing part of Triton's surface of frozen nitrogen to turn into gas, thus making its thin atmosphere denser.

web.mit.edu...

Pluto is undergoing global warming, researchers find
October 9, 2002


BIRMINGHAM, Ala.--Pluto is undergoing global warming, as evidenced by a three-fold increase in the planet's atmospheric pressure during the past 14 years, a team of astronomers from Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), Williams College, the University of Hawaii, Lowell Observatory and Cornell University announced in a press conference today at the annual meeting of the American Astronomical Society's (AAS) Division for Planetary Sciences in Birmingham, AL.

web.mit.edu...

New Storm on Jupiter Hints at Climate Change
By Sara Goudarzi
Staff Writer
posted: 04 May 2006
01:00 pm ET


A storm is brewing half a billion miles away and in a rare event, astronomers get to watch it closely.

Jupiter is growing a new red spot and the Hubble Space Telescope is photographing the scene. Backyard astronomers have been following the action, too.

www.space.com...

Changes are happening all over the solar system. Even the sun is changing dramatically and it's activity has increased in the past 60 years more than in the last 8,000 years +.

The Earth used to have 10 times, and even more, CO2 in it's atmosphere than it has now, and it didn't cause the Earth to "become another Venus or Mars". But the "let's blame manking for Climate Change crowd" apparently want to claim the oposite.

BTW, i have said it before, and will continue to say it. Being environmentally friendly as much as possible is always a good idea.

I am not proposing that we should release more gases and chemicals into our oceans and/or atmosphere, or our landmasses like there was no tomorrow.

But first of all, curbing pollution is not going to stop or mitigate Climate Change, and making the extreme changes some environmentalists are proposing are only going to get more people killed and will starve millions.

Some environmentalists are even proposing to stop all human activities or even to exterminate part of the human race to stop or mitigate Climate Change.... But even if that was done meanwhile millions of people die, it would not stop or mitigate Climate Change, simply because Climate Change is a natural cycle the Earth goes through as the geological record has proven.


[edit on 5-3-2007 by Muaddib]

Originally posted by Muaddib
BTW, Mars' atmosphere is 95.32% CO2 as another member said. How is the warming that Mars, among other planets and moons in our solar system are undergoing, being caused by CO2 on Mars if Mars' atmosphere already is composed of 95.32% CO2?

[edit on 5-3-2007 by Muaddib]

It's that a shrinking ice cap, that contains both water, and Co2,
could contribute more than one gas into Mars' Atmosphere.
Thereby thickening, yet retaining similar compositional percentages.
With a surface pressure between 1, and 9 millbars, averageing 7 Millibars.
I seems to me that it would not take much.

I'm not nixing the whole Solar system theory. Seems there there is some supporting evidence. All I am saying, regarding Mars, is that there could be more than one contribution to the warming effect. One, the sun, kicks off the beginning of the other, rising Co2, or a thickening of the Atmosphere.

Just like Earth...A solar contribution, as well as a localized one.

Originally posted by Muaddib
But first of all, curbing pollution is not going to stop or mitigate Climate Change, and making the extreme changes some environmentalists are proposing are only going to get more people killed and will starve millions.

Some environmentalists are even proposing to stop all human activities or even to exterminate part of the human race to stop or mitigate Climate Change.... But even if that was done meanwhile millions of people die, it would not stop or mitigate Climate Change, simply because Climate Change is a natural cycle the Earth goes through as the geological record has proven.


[edit on 5-3-2007 by Muaddib]

!!!! I ask you. What pathetic scare mongering. Is this how desperate the skeptics have become. "Believe in Global Warming and you might be part of a human cull". You should ashamed of yourself. But you're not are you, just scared that you might have to change you're wasteful ways. That you might have to become more caring about your fellow man and the affect that your behaviour may have on them. God forbid that you have to face up to crop failures in the third world being related your car driving gas guzzling behaviour........

How many times do you skeptics have to be told that thousands of scientists worldwide have been investigating EVERYTHING to try and explain the current changes. The consensus is that we are responsible:

Imagine this:

Year 1985 - 500 scientists say that using product X will damage your health and 500 say it won't.

Year 2006 - 990 scientists say that using product X will damage your health and 10 say it won't and 2 of those 10 are funded by the manufacturers of product X.

What do you do?

Answer : well if it's global warming then you say that 990 scientists are wrong (liberal tree huggers) and the 10 are right.....DUH!

If current warming trends are due to solar activity why is the stratosphere cooling and the atmosphere warming? They should BOTH be warming. Oh dear an inconvenient fact. I've got a good idea either ignore it or deny it!

My childrens future is looking bleak thanks to you lot who give politicians the excuse they always need to NOT implement policy that makes rich people less rich.

Originally posted by malcr

!!!! I ask you. What pathetic scare mongering. Is this how desperate the skeptics have become. "Believe in Global Warming and you might be part of a human cull". You should ashamed of yourself. But you're not are you, just scared that you might have to change you're wasteful ways. That you might have to become more caring about your fellow man and the affect that your behaviour may have on them. God forbid that you have to face up to crop failures in the third world being related your car driving gas guzzling behaviour........

You should be ashamed of yourself...

Since it is obvious you cannot discuss the topic you have to depend on making insults...

Amazing...some want to call the facts scare mongering when this has been happening for 4.5 billion years...

Climate Change is a natural cycle the Earth has gone through for 4.5 billion years... if you are so scared of a natural change it is not my fault...

The scare mongering is coming from the "mankind is at fault crowd" who can't see beyond their own nose and have to agree with the "policymakers' when it suits them.

The report just released is merely the 'Summary for Policymakers,' an executive summary of the main report that no one outside a select group sworn to secrecy knows the contents of until May.

Why would the main report and its summary not be issued together?

According to official IPCC procedures, the main science report shall be modified after publication of the summary, so as to "ensure consistency with" the summary. But surely it is the summary that should be edited to reflect the contents of the science report it is supposedly summarizing.
...................
IPCC lead author and NRSP Allied Scientist Prof. Richard Lindzen, of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, explains: The summary "represents a consensus of government representatives (many of whom are also their nations' Kyoto representatives), rather than of scientists."

Lindzen also reveals that the summary had the input of not hundreds of IPCC scientists, but only about 30. The creation of the final version was conducted by a plenary session composed primarily of bureaucrats and representatives of environmental and industrial organizations.
...........
NRSP Science Advisory Committee member, Dr. Vincent Gray, also an official IPCC reviewer, speaks about his own experience: "They sometimes take notice of your comments. They don't take much notice of mine because most of the time I don't agree with what they are saying. It is not like the scientific press, where you are supposed to answer objections; they don't bother to answer objections; they go their own way."

www.ottawasun.com...


Go ahead and keep agreeing with the policymakers because you are too scared to admit that Climate Change is a natural cycle that has been happening on Earth for 4.5 billion years. It is still not going to change the fact that it is a natural cycle, and as can be seen to what is been happening all over the Solar System, these Climate Changes are being caused by external factors which mankind has no control over.

You want to curb pollution? great, as i have said for a hundred times already it is a good idea, but it is not going to stop Climate Change, plain and simple.

Originally posted by malcr
How many times do you skeptics have to be told that thousands of scientists worldwide have been investigating EVERYTHING to try and explain the current changes. The consensus is that we are responsible:

And there are thousands more scientists who are saying mankind is not at fault, and we also have the fact that the "same warming is happening all over the solar system".

But some are scared apparently of either giving up the hope that they can stop nature and the universe from following it's course, or they are scared that the public will not pay from their pockets for programs that will not stop Climate Change....

Originally posted by malcr
If current warming trends are due to solar activity why is the stratosphere cooling and the atmosphere warming? They should BOTH be warming. Oh dear an inconvenient fact. I've got a good idea either ignore it or deny it!

The stratosphere and the troposphere fluctuate in between warming and cooling trends. The temperature trends don't always stay the same from one year to the other.

Originally posted by malcr
My childrens future is looking bleak thanks to you lot who give politicians the excuse they always need to NOT implement policy that makes rich people less rich.

Actually it is the "policymakers" who are trying to get more money from the common folk with this "scaremongering that mankind is at fault for Climate Change...

If the future is looking bleak is because "changes are a natural occurrence that the Earth goes through and has been going through for 4.5 billion years.

We just happen to be living in the middle of one of those Climate Changes.

If you don't want to accep it...well, sorry...bad luck....

Trying to blame those who don't agree with you, and have done a bit more research than you is neither going to stop Climate Change, nor is it going to make it any better for your family's future.

BTW... if the "mankind is at fault crowd" is so scared why the hell are they still posting in these forums using their computers and electricity when half of the power they are using is being produced by coal?...

Why are they buying any food from supermarkets when all food is being brought to supermarkets in gas guzzling trucks, and the food is processed, boxed and shipped using oil byproducts?...

Everything that we do in our daily lives uses in one way or another products which come from oil.

The amount of oil that mankind has tapped has a low percentage of the 1.5% CO2 which exists in the atmosphere and landmasses. Most of the CO2 in existance on Earth is stored in our oceans which has 98.5% of all CO2 on Earth.

Since we have been coming out of an ice age it is normal that CO2 levels would be steadily increasing because the warmer our oceans are, the more CO2 they release, and since there are factors which started happening recently which have been warming Earth such as the Sun's activity which has increased more in the past 60 years than during the last 8,000 years +.

The fact that the Earth's magnetic field has been 10% weaker in some areas, and up to 30% weaker in other areas since 1845, more than it has been for the past 780,000 years. Which not only allows more radiation from the sun to reach Earth, but it is also allowing more charged particles from the interstellar cloudlet we are in to be absorbed by Earth.

The fact that there is research which shows that underwater magmatic and seismic activities have increased globally and are warming our oceans and lakes releasing more CO2 and methane among some of the trace gases being released.

The fact that there is research which state that we have underestimated how much CO2 and other trace gases are being released by our oceans and lakes.

The above factors and several others which are converging and in most cases haven't happened for thousands of years, much less they have not happened at the same time for hundreds of thousands of years, should be telling people that it is these natural factors which are causing the current Climate Change we are undergoing....

Not only that but these changes are happening all over the Solar System, which tells us there is a bigger factor which our whole Solar System is being affected by, and is bringing the Climatic Changes we are seeing...

But nooo, the 'mankind is at fault crowd' don't want to lose hope they can stop or mitigate the Earth and the Universe from following it's natural course...

[edit on 7-3-2007 by Muaddib]