God broke one of the ten commandments and commited one of the seven deadly sins

a reply to: Whatchful

The daughters thought the entire world had ended.

That is a common misconception. They visited another town before deciding to hole up in the cave.

Lot was drunk for two nights and didn't know what he was doing. He would have never consented to having sex with his daughters (he was a righteous man) if he was fully cognizant.

Now bear in mind the same God who looked upon Sodom and Gemorrah and decided to wreck the place also looked down at Lot's daughters committing incest with their father and said to himself 'eh, I'll not only allow it, I'm also going to watch for a short while. Ok, maybe a bit longer than that. Screw it, I'm going to watch the whole damn time Lot gets barebacked by his own daughters'.

Do you see how silly that comes across?

He would have never consented to having sex with his daughters (he was a righteous man) if he was fully cognizant.

And yet your fully cognizant God smote whole cities for depraved acts exactly like these and you seem to agree that if Job was sober he would rightly call out these acts for what they were: depraved. Why was this allowed by God and not seen by him as an act of depravity?

Genesis 19....

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Untun

Are you asking me to consider the possibility that the passage of time had an effect on the significance of what it means to indiscriminately kill thousands(millions?) of innocent children?

There you go contradicting Genesis 6;12 to make an invalid point.

a reply to: TzarChasm

Yes, love is
Unfortunately there comes a point when love becomes justice
God is the Judge and as His children, we allow God to carry out His justice
You don’t believe so, it’s pretty mute

God died to show His love, repentance is an action, some don’t repent

Didn’t ask you to believe

a reply to: 19Bones79

When Lot commits incest with his daughters in spite of eligible men living close by, what was the point of intervening in his life to save him from depravity when he loses his wife and ends up committing the worst kind of depravity with his own children?

Genesis 19:32

32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

It was to preserve the family bloodline.

a reply to: Whatchful

God is worthy of our praise and He does take care of us, we just have to trust him and keep our faith in Him - something the daughters didn't do when they decided on their own to take action based on their own thinking and needs. There were men in Zoar, but again they thought the entire world had been destroyed.

Having freewill and not consulting with God, asking for guidance, keeping faith will create consequences. God won't intervene unless we ask Him to. The daughters did not consider God at the time of their decision.

While I like and agree with most of your post, how do we know that the daughters made a poor decision here? In the days of Adam and Eve, we know that incest had to be somewhat acceptable in order for people to multiply. We also know that Lot was a nephew of Abraham and that God had promised Abraham that he would increase his seed like the numbers of the sand. There might be another reason or explanation here that we don't fully understand based on our current culture and the time that we live in.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: wrayth

First off on this topic, Sodom and Gomorrah.
here god committed the deadly sin of wrath, and broke one of the ten commandments by committing murder

Lot and Abraham, Sodom and Gomorrah were BEFORE he wrote the 10 Commandments. He wrote the 10 Commandments for Moses and his Israelites, so the story goes.

I was waiting to see who would be first to make that distinction.

a reply to: wrayth

If you thiink that part is bad then beware of the story of Elisha where God sends two female bears to to maul 42 children to death by tearing their limbs off because they said 'go ye bald top'.

The Jesus decribed in the Bible seems a nice guy but the God is an evil, petty hypocrite.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: cooperton

Sorry, but if Lot was righteous he would've offered his own ass instead of offering to throw his daughters to the wolves.

Sodom being as depraved as they are described, any old hole would've sufficed.

These were angels.. I don't think an older man would be a sufficient scapegoat for the rapacious crowd.

For all his hospitality wrt the angels, he loses his wife and his daughters make him drunk and has sex with him.

His wife looked back, demonstrating her inability to let go of Sodom. Sounds like Lot was saved from a lot of squabbling to be honest. But in all seriousness, this is an emphasis on the dangers of appeasing a perverse society. Essentially rendering one dead, or more specifically, cast into a stone, spiritually immobilizing the person enthralled with depravity.

Bear in mind after they fled Sodom they went to a town called Zoar which wasn't destroyed because apparently there were worthy people, and the wine was really, really, really good. However there was no man to marry his daughters apparently.

If a bloodline is not corrupt there will not be defects from incest. Incest only amplifies genetic weaknesses. The daughters wanted to continue their bloodline despite their remote living, so they got Lot blackout drunk. So drunk he apparently didn't even know what was happening. The town Zoar, meaning "smallness" or "insignificance", likely had little to no potential husbands to choose from, apparently.

Regardless, the actions of the daughters continued the Messianic line. It's as though they knew something you didn't.

a reply to: cooperton

Inbreeding is taboo because too much of it is clearly bad, but certain forms are acceptable. Most breeding programs use careful Inbreeding to either enhance or preserve gene pools. It's called line breeding.

Lot's daughters took a risk, but may not have had much choice under the circumstances of local cataclysm.

originally posted by: Untun

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Untun

Are you asking me to consider the possibility that the passage of time had an effect on the significance of what it means to indiscriminately kill thousands(millions?) of innocent children?

There you go contradicting Genesis 6;12 to make an invalid point.

I'll post it since you won't.

12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.

There were no unborn and newborn babies is that what you think?

Or that they deserved to die according to your God's will?


Where is this contradiction you speak of?

a reply to: Deetermined

It was to preserve the family bloodline.

That makes no sense. There was a town full of men who apparently weren't good enough for a family about to commit incest?

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: Deetermined

It was to preserve the family bloodline.

That makes no sense. There was a town full of men who apparently weren't good enough for a family about to commit incest?

I agree, it makes no sense and I've been getting this type of ridiculous explanations my entire religious life, or I'm told 'because you have to', so I tried to read theologists arguing scripture and here again is 'stalemate'.

A story written by man, for man, to chain man down. That is the biblical god.

a reply to: wrayth

In the Old Testament, it was perfectly acceptable in messages from "God".

"Go into the place and kill every living thing: man, woman, child". God...spoke.

You gotta realize...God has Judgement, can be upset, and I'm sure too God has a sense of humor.

God-" Live by the sword"..."an eye for an eye" etc. Yep, hard to fathom....but is not....God ...is ALL, everything Good and Bad.

a reply to: cooperton

These were angels.. I don't think an older man would be a sufficient scapegoat for the rapacious crowd.

Oh stop it you're going to break a sweat.

His wife looked back, demonstrating her inability to let go of Sodom. Sounds like Lot was saved from a lot of squabbling to be honest.

The way you gloss over this so 'effortlessly' gives me the impression that you would excuse any behavior from your God.

She merely turned her head to look around and from that you got:

But in all seriousness, this is an emphasis on the dangers of appeasing a perverse society. Essentially rendering one dead, or more specifically, cast into a stone, spiritually immobilizing the person enthralled with depravity.

She just turned her head, nothing more.

a reply to: quintessentone

Especially since that town was spared of God's wrath which means there were enough good people living there

Believers will justify anything at the cost of everything.

a reply to: 19Bones79

That makes no sense. There was a town full of men who apparently weren't good enough for a family about to commit incest?

it may not make sense to you, but don't you know that there are families all through history believed and proven that committed incest to preserve the family bloodline for some reason or another.

here is a story about a whole great big island where the royal family did, so why is it so hard to believe or make sense that in happened in biblical times with a family that's town was just destroyed.

Ancient Irish royals practiced incest to keep bloodlines alive: study

or how about the pharaohs of egypt which are rumored to have and some say proven with DNA tests to have committed incest and it was a empire.

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: quintessentone

Especially since that town was spared of God's wrath which means there were enough good people living there

Believers will justify anything at the cost of everything.

I agree and you may want to walk away from this thread because you won't be able to break through.

a reply to: BernnieJGato

so why is it so hard to believe or make sense

Did you miss the entire part where two towns were wiped from the face of the earth because of sexual depravity?

And then they end up getting drunk and boinking each other???

And you are just going to avoid the whole story in order to explain to me the whole story by saying 'ehhh that's not so weird lotsa fam' lies done dur dere dat'.