Do people support the Kremlin because they don't like Joe Biden ?

originally posted by: RickyD

Haven't seen any links...I just went back and looked but saw nothing. Once I see your sourced for such a statistic I will discuss further...

Naw I'm done with you on this topic, it is getting boring. The numbers I posted are easy to find from many standard publication for any country. Crimea voting numbers were all done in secret and didn't even make sense when the population there is 60% Russian and 40% Ukrainian. I explain to you in how they voted, what Russia allowed them to actually vote on, what was the real turn out and votes. This too is easy to find since it is now 5+ years and the truth does come out.

As I said it is about as believable as Putin receiving 108% of the votes...lol After Russia blew the crap out of all of them there, killed 14,000, wiped towns off the map as he is doing today you are going to suggest that 93% of the population turned out to vote and 87% voted to go with the people that just blew the crap out of them...geez While only 60% of the population is actually Russian?????


World

a reply to: Xtrozero

If people claim they are Nazis then so be it, if people claim they are nationalist in their struggles against Russia that is not a Nazi, agree?

At least we agree that people calling themselves Nazis are Nazis.

That is my point in all this...as it comes down to a numbers game. How many are there. I read there are between 5000 to 8000 in the so called national guard that are fight basically Russian Nazis that Putin has used as Mercs since 2015. Less than 2% of the population actually identify with Nazis political party

I think the numbers game is dumb.

So do the Nazis.
His actual statement was "The thing is that a thing can say only a moron who was never at war"

Below is from Feb, 2022

Asked the question before, who is more Evil? The Nazis or Russians...

Nazis, 100% Nazis are more evil. I am not talking about the people in the US labeled as Nazis or having different views. I am Talking about actual Nazis that carry, wear, and tattoo swastikas on themselves and are set on exterminating the superfluous.

a reply to: Xtrozero

How does that account for ukrainians who don'tont want to live under this new extremist nationalists government? You know it doesn't which is why you can only source stats for ethnicity which only tells part of the story. We aren't talking about Putin's election we are talking about the seperaton referendum. The biggest interference with the referendums came from ukraine as the russians didn't actually send anyone until weeks after crimea's vote. Many places saw these extremist nationalist/nazi groups come into their city and intimidate voters as well as beating and abducting citizens...many deaths during the run up to referendums. Then you have the 40+ civilians whom a nazi groups trapped in a government building which they burned down with them trapped inside. Anyone who tried to get out was beat to death...all the while your can see people in the crowd goading those trapped to jump to their deaths. But yes I am sure that the Ukrainians who lived in the area were real enthused by this new government. So if russia wasn't there yet and there is footage of ukrainians trying to prevent the vote...how can you say russia was even involved to a point that the election was a fraud...you can't say such factually. And you bring no evidence to back up any assertation their election was a fraud. You are attempting to debate me using very dishonest tactics which shows a lot of your character...you are building a reputation for others to remember as well...just saying.

many deaths during the run up to referendums. Then you have the 40+ civilians whom a nazi groups trapped in a government building which they burned down with them trapped inside.

I cannot and will not tell you that that's fake news.

How many civilians do you think Putin has killed thus far in his illegal war?

Will you do me the honor of giving me a number? Or will you claim that civilian casualties in Ukraine are either self inflicted, or fake news?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

Nazis, 100% Nazis are more evil. I am not talking about the people in the US labeled as Nazis or having different views. I am Talking about actual Nazis that carry, wear, and tattoo swastikas on themselves and are set on exterminating the superfluous.

What you are talking about is basically anarcrist criminals. Doesn't matter what they call themselves they are all bad, agree? We have gangs in the states that are the same though they do not call themselves Nazis. How many of those that you describe above are there? I bet there are more of that type in Germany and Russia than Ukraine, but Ukraine is the one getting invaded under the false pretense to clean out the Nazis. This is not a "is there Nazis in the world" debate it is whether Russia has right to do what they did or not. If they are using the Nazis agenda then I can only assume they don't have any reason outside of flexing their power. Which they would not just say that.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: Xtrozero

How does that account for ukrainians who don'tont want to live under this new extremist nationalists government?

You can say the same for the Russians there in how many do not want to go back to Russia's rule. There is a lot of reports in the east that the Russians living there are shocked, don't understand what Putin is doing, lost their homes family and friends etc.

The deal is the Russians have done EXTREMLY evil things on the population of Ukraine over the years, and for some reason they want to go back to mother Russia's ways of life...lol Why do you think they looked at first to the Nazis to save them from the Russians? Then they quickly realized the Nazis were just as bad, but in the end the Russians were much worst than the Nazis. The fighting you see is the example of all that. No one in Ukraine is cheering on the Russians...geez.

a reply to: Xtrozero

What you are talking about is basically anarcrist criminals. Doesn't matter what they call themselves they are all bad, agree? We have gangs in the states that are the same though they do not call themselves Nazis. How many of those that you describe above are there?

I have already covered this.

We are going in circles. It isn't a numbers game. The percentage can be small but if that percentage holds positions of authority, power, and influence then the dynamic is completely different from just some gangs.


I will say it again. The equivalent in the US would be if the National Guard and police forces across the country were run by and staffed by Nazis. That is Ukraine.

The guy on the right is the police chief of Kiyv the one on the left is one of the patrolmen.



The same guy that was on the right

Kyiv region: police confirm deaths of 1,222 people killed by the occupying forces

According to Venediktova: "As of the morning of 10 April, we have found the bodies of 1,222 residents who were killed during the Russian occupation of the Kyiv region. This is only in the Kyiv region."

Details: Venediktova added that the Russian occupiers had destroyed Borodianka despite the fact that there were no military facilities or military units in the city at all.

www.pravda.com.ua...

Why are you debating who the Nazis are on this thread when we all know fully well who the Nazis are?

The Russian invading force are the Nazis. Get it?

The rest of the world knows this. And so do you I believe. You just won't admit the truth of the matter.

Russia currently has a full Nazi army invading a free country.
Do you deny it? Do you deny that the Nazis you're looking for are at this minute committing war crimes in the Ukraine?

lmfao. Too funny man. Way to spin it. (Jesus wept)

:dn

originally posted by: Grimpachi
I will say it again. The equivalent in the US would be if the National Guard and police forces across the country were run by and staffed by Nazis. That is Ukraine.

So once again are they criminals or just people with an ideology? You also assume they fill up most positions when their numbers are small over all. Might have been you, or another that posted a person saying they were a Nazi in the NG. If that person actually followed to the end of the video his counter parts said, yes he is a Nazi, but a good guy, and he doesn't represent the rest of us. I also tried to look up that police chief and I can't find him anywhere. What is his name? Here is the current chief.



As I said before this debate isn't about Nazis, its about whether Putin had a right to invade using the Nazi excuse.

a reply to: Xtrozero

His name is Artom Bonov and I made a mistake he is the deputy head of police of Kyiv.

As for if they are criminals or ideology. Nazisim is an Ideology.

Here is a group photo of him at the police department.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xtrozero

His name is Artom Bonov and I made a mistake he is the deputy head of police of Kyiv.

As for if they are criminals or ideology. Nazisim is an Ideology.

Here is a group photo of him at the police department.

There is actually a number chiefs and deputies as per areas in Kyiv. So is he not doing his job correctly? Is he a criminal doing all kinds of horrors. As I said are we talking an ideology while doing his job just fine or some gang banging type of criminals here.

Also is he a good reason for Putin to do what he has done?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Do you believe Nazism is no big deal?


You sure are downplaying it. Making it out to just be mundane. As for doing horrors, there have been a lot of claims over the years. People being picked up never to be seen again, a couple of times it has been caught on video. Would that qualify as horrors?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

You sure are downplaying it. Making it out to just be mundane. As for doing horrors, there have been a lot of claims over the years. People being picked up never to be seen again, a couple of times it has been caught on video. Would that qualify as horrors?

You keep missing my point, is this justification for that Putin has done, kind of a yes or no question.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I am not going to repeat myself to you but I will link you to what have already said which directly answered your question before you asked it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Now I will ask again. Do you believe Nazism is no big deal?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

Now I will ask again. Do you believe Nazism is no big deal?

It was a yes or no question geez...

Nazism is a rather sick ideology, there are a good number of extremists ideology out there that are the same, and there are a lot of really bad groups out there with very little ideology, Mexico's cartels comes to mind. Things are a big deal when the numbers make them a big deal. If there is some religious sect that does violence and they only have a few people it is not a big deal, if you have millions of radical Muslims then that would be a big deal. That is why I say you can't blame 1.4 billion Muslims for what radicals do, but there are so many radicals they are a big deal throughout the world.

If you are asking me if Nazism is a big deal throughout the world I would say no more or less than any other extremists group the same size. If you listen to Putin he says anyone in the country that is a nationalist is a Nazi. He inflated the numbers to justify his war.

Why do you say it’s a sick ideology?

What is nazism by your definition?

a reply to: Xtrozero

a reply to: Xtrozero

It was a yes or no question geez...

It was a question that I had already given you the answer to.

I agree there is very little ideology with the cartel Theirs is simple greed.
Religious sects even in small numbers have also been a big deal. Gasing the public comes to mind.

Extreme Muslims are a big deal but not really an even comparison. Muslims can be peaceful. It is the way they interpret their religion. I have never heard of any moderate Nazis tho.

originally posted by: Dalamax
Why do you say it’s a sick ideology?

What is nazism by your definition?

Not sure why you want to ask that, it is the same as anyone else who sees it as a bad ideology. One thing I'm not sure about is how much today's Nazi parties around the world are align with Germany's Nazi. I have not gone out and interviewed them them, but extremism in any form is not good by any stretch of the word.

Though EVERY country has extremist of one kind or another was it right for Russia in this case to invade Ukraine for that reason?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

It was a question that I had already given you the answer to.

I agree there is very little ideology with the cartel Theirs is simple greed.
Religious sects even in small numbers have also been a big deal. Gasing the public comes to mind.

Extreme Muslims are a big deal but not really an even comparison. Muslims can be peaceful. It is the way they interpret their religion. I have never heard of any moderate Nazis tho.

When I say big deal I mean to invade and concur a nation over it. The level of destruction and life lost in Ukraine right now, and it is far from over, was Putin right to do as he did? I personal feel he is using Nazism as his excuse but his real reasons have nothing to do with it.

With 1.4 billion Muslims in the world how many need to be extremists to effect the world? 1%? Being in the Middle East a good deal many there are on the edge of extremism as they interpret their religion differently from each other and have a tendency to want to kill others that interpret it not the same as they do.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Of course, nazism isn't the main reason they invaded. Nobody really thinks it is. That is just something to make his own people rally behind.
Nazism isn't the main reason but it is a real reason. There are no good Nazis in this world. Their entire ideology is sick. Now that the war is going it does need to be crushed. If they aren't then it will only grow and in 10-30 years it will be NATO nations fighting a war with them.

The main reasons of the war is about national security and resources. It is in Ukraine's constitution that they wish to join NATO. I don't think I need to tell you why that would be completely unacceptable to Russia. Resources, the Crimea canal, warm water port, Crimea itself.
Russia claimed and still claims that Ukraine planned to retake Crimea.
I am sure they see it as a preemptive strike.

The fact that Ukraine has waged war on the Donbas region for 8 years and that the groups doing it were Nazi nationalists were played up. Our country would do the same if it was us doing the invading.