Has an Mrna vax ever been used on humans before now

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain

While that's true, we don't give a technique the benefit of the doubt when we develop new vaccines. We test every vaccine even if they are produced with the same technique.

That's like saying, we had EV a hundred years ago, successful trials and today, after we have developed a few more, say that all EV are safe because we know about them for so long.

It's like saying car manufactures know how to build cars that fold in itself on accidents, protecting the passenger since decades, we can take this technique and adapt it to every future car.

Read the title of the OP again...lol

"Its like saying" you and I really have no clue to what we are talking about. You are trying to bunch it in with a process that is up to 100 years old.

How fast can we make cars today compared to 50 to 100 years ago, how much better are they?????

Because they been working with mRNA for 30 years and even human testing in the last 7 years they know how to sequence any RNA very quickly. It took them 2 days to sequence COVID RNA and so that saves them years off the older method.

RNA is not a drug, and is a part of the natural process of the human body, there is like 10,000 different proteins the RNA in our the body makes, so we are using the natural process of the body AND the natural process of a virus to make protein. The difference is the body identifies the mRNA protein as an invader and triggers the immune system.

So all of this is much different than to say "a drug" or even to say live or dead virus vaccines...

originally posted by: nonspecific
Was that the one that had issues with narcolepsy?

It's the only one I was aware of?



a reply to: 1947boomer

Yes, according to Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org...

That wasn't an mRNA vaccine though?

Standard type vaccine I thought?


a reply to: 1947boomer

originally posted by: nonspecific
That wasn't an mRNA vaccine though?

Standard type vaccine I thought?


a reply to: 1947boomer

It was. That’s my point. Just because a standard killed-virus type vaccine produced a side effect like narcolepsy, you can’t assume that an mRNA vaccine targeted against the same disease would also produce that effect.

originally posted by: HawkEyi

Another reason this why this kind of tech shouldn't have being rushed out on a massive scale. To everyone let alone our youth and children. I dont remember the mRNAs being studied on the children/youth.

So why rush them to get vaxed with the new tech? that could have potential issues down the road?

Is 30 years a rush? The obstacles to over come were solved years ago hence the positive human testing 7 years ago, so I'm not getting your point?

As far as I know the narcolepsy was also an issue with the virus itself.

I looked into it again earlier and there were a few hundred reports of it and they pulled the vaccine, bit of a balls-up all round really.

It's similar with the blood clots in the covid Vax being a major issue with the actual covid virus I presume?



a reply to: 1947boomer

a reply to: sciencelol

No, No it has not, everyone taking the jab is part of the largest medical experiment ever played out.

a reply to: Xtrozero

"Its like saying" you and I really have no clue to what we are talking about. You are trying to bunch it in with a process that is up to 100 years old.

Compared to specialist, we are indeed clueless.

How fast can we make cars today compared to 50 to 100 years ago, how much better are they?????

The example went right over your head. While every EV is a car, every car isn't a EV. The example is perfectly fitting.

You went of a tangent with the rest of your post, there is no need to educate me about RNA not being a drug. You're the only one talking about drugs. Your attention time span is also not long enough to remember that we settled the title question a page or two ago.

originally posted by: nonspecific
As far as I know the narcolepsy was also an issue with the virus itself.

I looked into it again earlier and there were a few hundred reports of it and they pulled the vaccine, bit of a balls-up all round really.

It's similar with the blood clots in the covid Vax being a major issue with the actual covid virus I presume?



a reply to: 1947boomer

I didn’t know that the H1N1 disease also caused narcolepsy but that makes perfect sense.

I’m not a virologist—I just play one on ATS, however I suspect you’re right.

The way it looks to me is that all of the reported serious adverse effects of the mRNA vaccines—including the ones that can lead to death—are autoimmune responses. Your immune system gets stimulated—whether by the vaccine or the virus—to start producing antibodies. In a small number of cases, instead of the antibodies attacking the invader virus, they attack some target cells of the host. This can produce Guillian-Barre Syndrome, blood clots, pericarditis, etc. Because a COVID19 infection produces maybe 3 times as many antibodies as the best vaccine, you would expect the autoimmune adverse effects of the infection to be more severe than the same side effects of the vaccine, and that’s what the research shows.

Apparently, the cause of narcolepsy is not known, but is suspected to be an autoimmune response as well.

The astrazenica shots not mRNA based but also had issues with blood clots remember.

As you know I'm also only a pretend superscientist but it does seem to be the way of things.

Vaccines causing rare side effects that are also symptoms must be a thing I guess.


a reply to: 1947boomer

originally posted by: nonspecific
The astrazenica shots not mRNA based but also had issues with blood clots remember.

As you know I'm also only a pretend superscientist but it does seem to be the way of things.

Vaccines causing rare side effects that are also symptoms must be a thing I guess.


a reply to: 1947boomer

The AstraZeneca vaccine also produces spike proteins via mRNA, but they use a different route to get there:

“The Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is based on the virus’s genetic instructions for building the spike protein. But unlike the Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna vaccines, which store the instructions in single-stranded RNA, the Oxford vaccine uses double-stranded DNA.
…
The researchers added the gene for the coronavirus spike protein to another virus called an adenovirus. Adenoviruses are common viruses that typically cause colds or flu-like symptoms. The Oxford-AstraZeneca team used a modified version of a chimpanzee adenovirus, known as ChAdOx1. It can enter cells, but it can’t replicate inside them.
….
After the vaccine is injected into a person’s arm, the adenoviruses bump into cells and latch onto proteins on their surface. The cell engulfs the virus in a bubble and pulls it inside. Once inside, the adenovirus escapes from the bubble and travels to the nucleus, the chamber where the cell’s DNA is stored.
…
The adenovirus pushes its DNA into the nucleus. The adenovirus is engineered so it can’t make copies of itself, but the gene for the coronavirus spike protein can be read by the cell and copied into a molecule called messenger RNA, or mRNA.
….

The mRNA leaves the nucleus, and the cell’s molecules read its sequence and begin assembling spike proteins.”

From:

www.nytimes.com...

What I find ironic is how people get all in a dither about the mRNA vaccines altering their genome. mRNA injected into a cell’s cytoplasm can’t get into the cell nucleus and alter your DNA, but adenovirus vector vaccines are specifically designed to put foreign DNA into your cell nucleus, and they’ve been in use for at least 5 years.

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain

You went of a tangent with the rest of your post, there is no need to educate me about RNA not being a drug. You're the only one talking about drugs. Your attention time span is also not long enough to remember that we settled the title question a page or two ago.

The easiest way to explain it is that the process is so different you are trying to compare two things that are not really similar other then the end products triggers the immune system. Maybe like comparing an oil painting to a computer generated picture.

I don't think timelines are really comparable anymore. They most likely have done more research in the last decade than the prior 100 years, so what does 10 years, or 1 years, or 1 month really mean today?

originally posted by: nonspecific
I did not know that about the h1n1 trials?

Any links or is it all hushed up?




a reply to: Hecate666

Look it up for yourself. If it hasn't been wiped. I sometimes don't feel like finding links to everything I write as if this is my dissertation.
I always get my info from papers or the direct people involved. You can too.

I knew about h1n1 vaccines but see above, I thought you were saying it was mRNA based and it's not.


a reply to: Hecate666

originally posted by: nonspecific

So it essentially bought nothing of value then.

Fair enough.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

It made me chuckle, because it was an amusing response to the quoted comment. Isn't laughter the second-best medicine, right behind mRNA vaccines?

I find humor very valuable...don't be a stick in the mud.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Vaccines causing rare side effects that are also symptoms must be a thing I guess.

Well, I mean...yeah, basically it is. It's called "antibody-dependent enhancement."

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

originally posted by: nonspecific
Vaccines causing rare side effects that are also symptoms must be a thing I guess.

Well, I mean...yeah, basically it is. It's called "antibody-dependent enhancement."

From June 3, 2021:

“So far there have been no verified reports of ADE occurring as a result of COVID-19 vaccines.

ADE has been seen in the past with virus and vaccine responses:

Dengue fever and its 2016 vaccine deployment in the Philippines
Respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) vaccine trials on children in the United States (U.S.) in 1967
A now-rejected vaccine developed for measles in the U.S. in the 1960s.

In the process of making COVID-19 vaccines, scientists developed vaccine strategies around avoiding ADE. These include:

Specifically targeting a SARS-CoV-2 protein that was the least likely to cause ADE in early vaccine design
Designing animal studies to search for ADE after vaccination
Evaluating human and clinical trial patients for the condition
Searching real world COVID-19 vaccine data for cases

Most COVID-19 vaccines target the spike protein in the virus in a defined way that is low risk. New vaccine technologies like mRNA are safer and designed in more scientifically targeted ways than older vaccines. Overwhelmingly, vaccinated people are showing protection against severe COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations. This would likely not happen if ADE were occurring, because it is an acute and very serious condition that would cause significant medical alarm.”

According to:

health-desk.org...

From August 16, 2021:

“Antibody-Dependent Enhancement and COVID-19: Still No Evidence”

www.deplatformdisease.com...

Do you know of actual cases of ADE related to Covid-19 that these guys don’t? It sounds like right now you have a fear that ADE could happen with Covid-19, but no actual evidence.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey

Well, I mean...yeah, basically it is. It's called "antibody-dependent enhancement."

You do know that a virus vaccine and mRNA basically triggers the immune system the same way, right?

I'm starting to think your main source of information is Reddit, am I right...

ADE is actually rather specific with certain viruses, not all....Coronaviruses are not one of them...

Can the new COVID-19 vaccines cause ADE?
Neither COVID-19 disease nor the new COVID-19 vaccines have shown evidence of causing ADE. People infected with SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, have not been likely to develop ADE upon repeat exposure. This is true of other coronaviruses as well. Likewise, studies of vaccines in the laboratory with animals or in the clinical trials in people have not found evidence of ADE.

a reply to: Xtrozero
Can you supply a source for the bit you quoted please?

Sorry...
Double post