By Deduction, you can only conclude they are our enemy.

originally posted by: Aegeus
a reply to: FingerMan

An interesting post, and my knee jerk reaction would be to counter like so many here have and said "well, they're not doing a very good job at being our enemies". Then I sit back, and realize that I'm human and these beings may or may not be thousands or more years ahead of us and have a different view on things, or they may have a completely alien (hehe) thought process to us that would only baffle us.

While from what we see, they really haven't done too much to us. Which leads us to think that perhaps they aren't enemies. After all, they've shown that they can manipulate our most powerful weapons yet have done nothing to us except shut them down rendering us helpless. Perfect time to strike, but they didn't.

But then what about the things we don't know? I'm going out to the fringes here, but I still think it's something to think about.

Missing 411. I'm not a huge fan of Paulides, but I do know there are an exuberant amount of people who disappear annually world wide. Without a trace. Without ever being seen again. Could this be them (aliens)?

Numerous "high strangeness cases". From things like the "Glimmer Man" to "Giant Mantis Men", or even Skin Walker Ranch. Could this be alien in origin?

Or what about some whistleblowers that claim we've built bases on top of alien bases, where we've (the military) had to fight with aliens and come to an accord that we stay separate in an uneasy co-existence?

So yes, from what we know aliens haven't done much. An abduction here, a little cow mutilation there, a few missiles shut down... But what about the other things we don't know? Or that's so out there that we don't really give it enough credit?

Just look at governments throughout time. They've tested chemical warfare on their own soldiers and populace without a care. Yet not many of us know this and it's pushed into conspiracy territory even though it's fact. Well, we don't know what the aliens are doing either, and some of the things we've heard we push into conspiracy territory because it sounds outlandish. (As if beings from a different planet didn't already, right?)

Even if they don't do it out of hatred, and it's just the way they operate much like how we kill millions of cattle yearly to eat. We don't do it out of malice, but because they are a vital part of our food chain. Don't you think that even though we don't hate the cattle, the cattle would still view us as enemies?

Even though aliens may not hate us, or want to see us tortured or dead, the very fact that the way they operate may be detrimental to our well being may make them enemies.

But I'm open to give them the benefit of the doubt. Plus, I believe there are more than one type. So even though one may be causing us issues, the others may not. I just don't know and I'm only speculating.

I think I have pretty much said the same things in my posts throughout this thread.
I'm open minded to anything. But it seems most just think of these invaders and benign observers, that are so advanced they would NEVER think of harming us. And they would NEVER think of us as a future threat to their dominance in this part of the galaxy. And they would NEVER try and stop us from reaching that point technologically.

If you were a cow, and beings were slaughtering your kind by the Billions so they could get resources. But they dont hate you! But as that cow, you have an opposable thumb, a brain, and ever increasing technological prowess, would you not try to stop them? Of course you would. And would they not try to stop you stopping them? Of course they would.
Hence they are our enemy in your analogy.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: FingerMan

Great thread S&F, I like everything you said but what if they don't even understand the idea of "threat". Their behavior could be completely alien compared to us.

I think contact will be established eventually. More info on what these things are will slowly be released too.

I would agree with that if I didn't come to the conclusion that they understand us perfectly well. And so they know what this would communicate to our intelligence and military industries. (We know everything, don't mess with us!)

A super intelligent species would not be more like children. They would be more severe in their thoughts.

There are many scholars that interpret the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge to be the root of evil itself.
The more knowledgeable we become, the more inherently evil we become.
And a super intelligent species would be much more evil than we.

I think that you are right about contact. It will happen. But I personally don't think it will happen sporadically. It will be a planned event with their timing and objectives in mind. If you believe in the bible, specifically the return of Christ, then you would lean in the direction they will establish contact at the time of the Anti-Christ and the building of the third temple.

a reply to: FingerMan

Who provides the space ships that the demons fly around in?

How many occupants per craft do they fit?

Why have we never recovered a crashed one?

Why would inter-dimensional beings need a physical craft to travel?

a reply to: FingerMan

If they were human I'd agree with you to be honest. But they could be alien, and if so, we don't know exactly how alien these things are, we don't even know if it's one "faction" flying around or many different ones with different goals. In the case of aliens, this type of deduction might even be pointless. I could make something up. Oh they are beings that can sense the near future in some way, that's why they moved to the rendezvous 60 miles away. Or ohh, to their thinking simply not outright attacking us is a message of peace. Just going from a country like the United States to a country like Japan shows you how differently a mindset can be with a little distance and time... now imagine the difference between people from different galaxies.

Hey they haven't attacked us outright nor have we attacked them outright to my knowledge. And over 2 whole millenia? That could be the most peaceful international (or intergalactic) relation of all time.

Betty and Barney Hill comes to mind as well as Donald R. Shrum, his encounter over 12 hours in the California forest.
The tic tok video is just one tiny blip on the screen .

What if they are not our enemy, and WE are objectively the bad guys? What if every thing they do is justified because they are protecting the galaxy / universe from our destructive / wasteful nature and pollution?

A primitive species like us loose in the galaxy with top notch technology could pose a threat to the peace, so instead of killing us or wiping us out, they watch us and make sure we don't get to the point of intergalactic technology or tech capable of world destruction until we are ready to handle it. Right now we are clearly not, hence it makes sense that they would take over the nuclear arsenals and treat us like the primitive apes we are.

originally posted by: Caver78
a reply to: FingerMan

So far you mentioned nothing covering this is not an either/or phenom. It's most likely at the very least several different kinds, plasma orbs, physical craft ect.. with at least several different types of "possible" alien entities visiting over large time spans.

Then there's the whole "lets kidnap random people & take samples" thingy. I think we can infer they know enough about us to know that's just bad behavior no matter how much they like "playing with the ants" so to speak.

The communication you have to admit has been spotty, but giving us platitudes about not junking up the joint isn't exactly real communication. In all the reports it's mentioned enough I can't see why it hasn't also been tagged as just another screen memory. I can say that with confidence since if taking care of the planet was that important to them they could at least pick up some trash while their visiting! No ones ever reported that yet so??? Yep, screen memory and no real dialog.

The only thing we can infer with accuracy is they're here for their own purposes yet to be determined.

The Military involvement to a degree should be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. They've been spinning this particular story for a long time because it works for them. Funding, fear, terminal uniqueness for those inside the loop, prestige, power it's just more SOP. We should be more pissed after all the time & money spent the MIC still can't stop incursions.
They've had like trillions of dollars & 70 years FFS!! OR they're just lying an are busy cahooting with Visitors but even tho we've paid them pretty well for answers (our MIC) they're holding out on us.

There are actually bigger questions out there aside from UAP/Good or Bad?

I think the aliens that deal with Earth are few in number. Like, there could be billions in their society, but only a thousand or so actually ever visit Earth. (It's a big universe out there.)

Also I think there is more than one alien group out there. (Even within one species they might be fragmented.)

If two or more of them have equal claims on our planet, then no one of them can claim it entirely. In order to invade and take over they would have to fight or appease the others.

originally posted by: Tortuga
I don't know if there are beings that are watching us, I'm open minded on the subject really but I lean towards not.

But lets say there are, that they've been watching us for millennia and that they are much more advanced than we are. I would say that their actions could be described as distant guardians if I am being generous.

They sat back and watched millions die in two world wars. They sat back and watched man develop the means to obliterate the planet many times over. They sat back and watched us struggle with means to power our machines which the resulting pollution has no doubt at the very least caused the poor health and deaths of millions if not billions.

At any point they could have stepped in covertly and stopped any of it. How many millions of humans need to suffer and die in order for our guardians to stop watching?

They cannot be our enemy, if they're truly that advanced they could have taken us out at any point without batting an eyelid. They don't fit my definition of friend. Surely after thousands of years watching you'd get pretty bored, and what is the point?

To be honest I give more credence to us living in a simulation than I do being watched for thousands of years by beings. The reports to the home world must be riveting stuff.

That attitude will be the one that leads us to war.

That attitude is WHY they sit back and don't make themselves known.

They're not our mommies. They don't owe us anything. Nothing.

Their society might be so luxurious that working 3 hours a week is considered "slavery". But IN NO SENSE WHATSOEVER does that make them owe us anything.

On the one hand, we haven't hurt them. But on the other hand, we've never done them any favors.

Next people will be saying they helped design the internet and inserted an AI into the system. I mean, really?

Remember, I am only "deducing" from events that have transpired. And extrapolating from there.

A few posts have done the same.

I'm selfishly looking for someone to be slightly more clever than I and deduce something I didn't think of in my posts.

If they can infiltrate and understand our most guarded secrets, and then flaunt them back at us, what larger task would they have before them to infiltrate and manipulate our societies? And how difficult would that even be for them?
What if - they have been here all along with us? What if they are amongst us now?

Now that the govt has acknowledged they are here, and we have no idea how who or why - it's time for serious people to take this seriously. I'm sure they have. Can you imagine defense analyst reports on this? I cannot imagine they do not think of this as a serious threat. (They are in the threat mitigation business)

originally posted by: gantech
Betty and Barney Hill comes to mind as well as Donald R. Shrum, his encounter over 12 hours in the California forest.
The tic tok video is just one tiny blip on the screen .

The only thing I don't get about that episode is - why let them go?
Why not do what you want with them and then discard the remains so that nobody ever finds out?
So that in and of itself casts doubt on that incident for me.
It is illogical to set them free so they can tell the world. Other than that, it is a compelling story with interesting insights. But so is the Bob Lazar story, and I don't buy that one either - even less so.

originally posted by: FingerMan

originally posted by: keenmachine

originally posted by: FingerMan

originally posted by: IAMALLYETALLIAM
a reply to: Lucidparadox

Right!? This wing nut carried on like an arrogant little Ken doll in a thread of mine about yowies/Bigfoot about they absolutely can not be real and people like me who believe in them are a plague on society yet, “FaWL3n aYNJelZ” flying around in spacecraft reading his threads on a website are indisputable.

Don’t even think anyone here can help him...

You can troll a thread out of animosity all you want. But that is a quick way to the ban hammer.
You are a petty man. You got destroyed in your thread. I didn't troll it. I just dropped a couple of truth bombs and walked away/dropped the mic.

This thread isn't about very obviously child level faked videos of big foot in Australia. LOL.

I think the poster has a point though, someone who believes that fallen angels are driving around in space ships shouldn't be so critical of those who believe in yowie and calling them plagues of society. IMHO anyway.

If it were true!

I'm just throwing things out there, seeing if something sticks.

There is proof the bible is accurate and true. There is no proof of Bigfoot, especially an obvious faked video. So no, you cannot equate anything I've said to what he has said.

I think herein lies the problem you deciding what is true and what isn't and passing judgement on those who disagree. I mean dinosaurs weren't mentioned in the bible either and I don't think we just assume they didn't exist because of that, well most of us don't. Pretty sure the bible does not address everything strange in this world. Point is yowie could most certainly exist and maybe fallen angels are pretending to be aliens as well just odd hearing someone who believes the latter calling those who believe the former they are plagues to society.

originally posted by: FingerMan
a. The operator of the craft could not only monitor our classified communications, but also understood our complex operating procedures. For those of you that served as did I, you know that understanding operating procedures for a specific operation function or job is not a simple task.

Unless they're telepathic, and aquire knowledge that way.

I believe the scary truth is... they are the unknown entity behind the the world's powerful governments.

The media is heavily controlled by them, making sure to keep everyone busy disagreeing and at war.

The media pundits play by the two party system for our own safety. The media, military, and government
know we have no other options but comply or risk losing mankind altogether.

Perhaps they destroyed all the civilizations we expect to see up in the stars. Instead, it is a grim, dark, and unforgiving astral crypt.

I could even see how they already have us enslaved, killing ourselves for natural god-given resources.

All those alien obsessed people, wishing for first contact during their lifetime are in for a rude awakening.

I doubt we could even get close, our physiological makeup and theirs are probably extremely toxic to one another. :/

originally posted by: Iconic
a reply to: FingerMan

Pretty ineffective enemy, don't you think? All they've ever done is observe and allegedly shut down some missle silos for a couple hours.

Beyond that, I think that most the other points are derived from a point of understanding that is colored by human understanding and ego.

Look at octopuses, we kinda know if they’re given a few million more years to develop they will be a force to be reckoned with. Kinda freaky.

Chances are we’ve been scoped out long ago. Maybe even millions years ago. And just put off to the side as we are probably among other life planets with the same lower level of advancement. And they kept moving along and found something else of more interest.

I doubt they would come here to hurt us. Because we’re not that important or not advanced enough.

They would most likely come with a drone of some type, or set up a observation satellite out of our solar system close enough to peek in better and watch us. And we wouldn’t know.

Having said that, as mentioned before there could be a planet out there that’s more hostile. In the sense they wouldn’t care at all about us in the worst way. Maybe even direct a asteroid and watch it hit us for observation lol. As Steven Hawking said, maybe it’s not the best idea for us to expose ourselves in the universe.

For them to land here in physical form, that’s another level of advancement I reckon they can manipulate space and reality itself as a simulation. They can pop up in existence out of nowhere or be microscopic as possible. Even then I think they would be quiet and try not to disturb us. Unless perhaps they need to help us in way they can’t stay hidden etc.

The universe is massive. If there isn’t life out there near by, there’s other nurseries in space being developed as we speak that can develop life later etc.

If it is benevolent, it has no reason to hide. The righteous do not fear transparency.

a reply to: FingerMan

All I've got for you is that unless they live nearby, I highly doubt they are manned. Unless they're on a diplomatic mission or here to conquer, there is no reason to put lives at risk. But how unmanned? Can we apply these military standards to say, an AI?

When we explore other planets we send robots, I'd imagine other species would do the same, assuming they don't have some alien quality that makes trying to reason about them pointless.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Think on this one. You are a filmer of wildlife, you're filming on the plains of the Serengeti and you see a lion stalking a baby gazelle. You can shout and warn the lion off or the gazelle to run, but you do not. You keep filming as the lion kills and starts to eat the gazelle.
Now, why didn't you shout? Because you were filming "real" life and sometimes real life can be evil and nasty to humans. You observe but not interact.

Now here's the kicker. What would the lion think about you? Like "who or what is that" " what is it doing"??? Do you get the reasoning. Observe but not interact.

Yeah, but Humans are not animals. We are intelligent creatures that can be reasoned with.

A group that is spying on us but not communicating with us, and is abducting people against their will cannot be good. They are narcissistic, condescending, nontransparent, and lack respect for humanity.

a reply to: FingerMan

Unless the UFOs are keeping us like a human farm and feeding us up til the numbers work out for a feeding harvest, say ten billion for canning, then I genuinely can't see how they are our enemy. They could wipe us out virtually instantly, they have capabilities that make us of the stone age, yet are getting a little concerned by what we can do to the environment of the Planet Earth they observe us on.

If the UFOs are anything they are like TV or cinema goers and are monitoring us like on some big show like Dynasty, Dallas or East Enders over here. We are probably just here like the life of Planet Earth for their amusement and a big show called something like Life on Earth.

We are unknowingly living our lives in a petri dish, observed by the "mad scientist" aliens. Or maybe we're the ants in some alien kids ant tank at the back of his messy bedroom.

originally posted by: Michigan72
If it is benevolent, it has no reason to hide. The righteous do not fear transparency.

I agree with you if they are hiding then its not in our best interests. Assuming they are from another planet evolution is predictable, and alien biospheres should thus produce intelligent creatures much like us, with technological prowess and an ever-increasing need for resources. This is how they would evolve on their planet and would need to be aggressive to even get the resources for space flight. They won the local competition id like to think that when they hit a certain point that they would become peaceful. However, that all assumes that an extraterrestrial species would act in accord with incentives that most humans understand. That could be a flawed assumption. If an extraterrestrial species is truly alien, then their thoughts, feelings, and motivations could be alien too. It’s not impossible that a species would evolve to be inherently hostile to any other sentient life.

A great example is a Beta you cant even put two in the same tank they will kill each other it's in their nature.

Now if they are hostile, to be honest, we're dead. This isn't like independence day where humans come up with a neat trick to save the day. If they can transverse interstellar space it's unlikely we would be hacking their stuff. Our best hope if they want resources is if they just take them and hopefully ignore us in the process. If the aliens just want something minor that doesn’t require exterminating all life on Earth, it makes more sense to just slip in and take it. The only reason invading aliens would ever be hostile in this scenario is if humans got in their way or created an obstacle.

The only other scenario in which we could survive is they have to be incompetent. I can't remember the sceries but aliens visit earth during the Romans they come back later expecting to find people still using swords and land in the middle of world war two. Their incompetence namely not realizing people have guns got them killed and the invasion force was thwarted because they underestimated our level of development.

But if they have been studying us from the shadows were screwed.