India looks inward for new(ish) fighter.

After opening up a tender for new fighters which included the F/A-18E/F, Rafale,Typhoon, Gripen E, MiG-35, Su-35, and reworked/upgraded F-16 Block 70 called the F-21, India has decided to stay local and procure 83 of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft which is basically inferior to any of the other contenders.

I would have thought that the F-18 and the Rafale would have been strong contenders givent hat the INS Vishal the proposed 65000 ton carrier is rumored to have a CATOBAR setup (possibly including EMALS) But then again I can hardly fault the Indian government wanting to keep all of the money at home despite all of the foreign contenders being willing to produce in country. The article seems to imply that the fighters will be the existing Mk1 and not the uprated Mk@'s that have the F414 turbine and other enhancements but its not 100% clear


www.forbes.com...

a reply to: FredT

Overweight, over budget, under powered. What could go wrong.

It surprises me that not having a next gen fighter isn't a greater concern for India given who's sitting on top of them right now.

Corruption! It’s what India is good at.

originally posted by: FredT India has decided to stay local and procure 83 of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft which is basically inferior to any of the other contenders.

Maybe so, but India is emerging as a true great power and surely it has to get its own domestic military production into gear and not rely on foreigners for tech. China used to be in the same postion relying on buying Soviet tech but has managed to get modern stuff domesticly produced by starting off off somewhere behind the rest. India needs the same really if it is to have a true independent foreign policy / military doctrine that relies only on its own industries to back it up

They may want to work on plumbing and infrastructure first...just sayin.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Of course they do. But if you were trying to build cars, and had only built Edsels up to this point, and Ferrari came along and said they wanted to build a modern plant and turn out brand new cars, wouldn't you want you learn from them?

a reply to: Zaphod58

Maybe not Ferrari. Toyota, definitely.

a reply to: anzha

Eh, either really works. They're both better than what they currently make. And the new lines that would be stood up are far more advanced.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Afaik India's SU-30MKI have been produced locally. At some point they need to take the training wheels off.

a reply to: moebius

They built over 200 of them. But you need to learn to build multiple types, not just one. Learn how to build a light fighter, like the F-16 or Gripen, a heavier fighter like the F-18 or Typhoon, in addition to the Su-30. That gives you the widest possible range of aircraft to build, and the most production line experience.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: FredT

Overweight, over budget, under powered. What could go wrong.

Right? It sounds like a less capable version of the initial F-111

a reply to: FredT

Maybe this one is...

The next one will be better. They'll learn from the mistakes.

Good for them! Were I a nation, especially one the size of India, I'd move heaven and earth to establish as much home grown tech as possible.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Of course they do. But if you were trying to build cars, and had only built Edsels up to this point, and Ferrari came along and said they wanted to build a modern plant and turn out brand new cars, wouldn't you want you learn from them?

Oh yeah totally agree........... Thing is up to now from my limited readings on India the car they've been teaming up with is an Autovaz and all the promises from Russia about lead times and tech transfer have proved to be years behind schedule. I get the impression their dealings with Russia over the past few years have sort of 'gotten' to the the Indian Airforce procurement team

a reply to: FredT

The article is poorly written, but this is going to replace just the proposed "F-21/F-16" buy. This will replace the lingering Bisons and Jaguars. The decades long debacle to supplement or augment the Su-30 fleet and finally replace the Mirages is still ongoing.

ETA: I'll continue my contrarian ways and say the Tejas is fine for what they need. They don't have a indigenous engine, so there's no real issue buying a foreign engine. The basic airframe has some growth potential, and probably has export potential. They just need to replace some aging airframes. It's going to be substantially better than the Bisons and Jaguars as the low-mix alongside Su-30's and (probably) Rafales. Cheap and built at home.

Thats just typical of India. Were this almost any other country I would say "go for it" with domestic production, but its not any other country. India has a long running and utterly breathtaking and abysmal track record of completely f***ing up military procurement, R&D and production programs. Couple this with a glacial speed bureaucracy, rampant corruption, public service incompetence and having sourced systems from good old reliable supply chain Russia to learn from and its half amazing that programs like Tejas ever got off the ground. I have lost track of their Army domestic tank program but I think they got to around 35 years of development with little to show for it. Its almost bizarre but India just never seems to learn. If they want to actually enter the big league this is exactly the step they should NOT have taken next. Domestic collaboration and production of a Gripen, F-16, or SH would have been far better, not to mention give them an aircraft that was actually half survivable, relevant and a good platform to learn how to design and build. The bones of this competition started over 20 years ago and still after various iterations and false starts there is literally nothing so far to show for it. This is why I have no confidence in their ability to ascend to super power status and stay there, let alone design and build good modern military aircraft on their own.

a reply to: thebozeian

What if they start buying Chinese?

a reply to: Masisoar

Unlikely.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Are they going to be left behind in the regional ball game?

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Maybe so, but India is emerging as a true great power and surely it has to get its own domestic military production into gear and not rely on foreigners for tech.

India's a superpower only if you ignore the dire poverty and the fact that most of the rural population still crap in the fields because there is no public sanitation.

I agree that India needs to develop a decent domestic defence industry and going for the HAL Tejas should be part of that process. The procurement of Rafale was a total waste and a lesson in corruption in both France and India. Collaborations with the Russia’s are also generally mired in failure.