India looks inward for new(ish) fighter.

a reply to: paraphi

True about the poverty but don't all countries have their sink estates / ghettos? From memory India has something like 400 millions of middle class population right now. So those 400 million alone make India an economic superpower sales wise, from an ecomomics point of view that is surely a superpower right? That bigger than the States or Russia hence there's got to be enough tax revenue to go indigenous when it comes to military production................ In addition to which of all the Indian decent pop here in the UK I met they are a pretty intelligent lot educated too

a reply to: Masisoar

I don't think so. They're already behind, but population wise they are on pace to overtake China soon. And while much of the country is still third world, sheer numbers are going to push the growing technology and industrial base. Particularly if they can position themselves to benefit from what seems increasingly likely to be a worldwide divorce from Chinese industry. They just need time and money and competent governance. Two of those things are question marks.
But you've got to start somewhere, if you want an indigenous industry. They are getting the handful of Rafales, and Dassault (and co) are reinvesting several billion back into Indian companies as industrial offsets. That's going to help with Tejas II and whatever twin-engine fighter their navy is backing development of (supposedly going to be a twin based on Tejas experience). Cutting metal and design experience now is what drives the next projects. it's extremely hard to develop new industries if the engineers don't have work. It's difficult for companies to fund more ambitious projects without cash flow today. Ideally (for India, at least) there is still room for expanding the Su-30 and/or Rafale fleets, augmenting industries through workshare, tech transfer it, or offset development money.

Not many countries are producing a homebuilt and designed supersonic fighter. It won't be a worldbeater, but it's a good seed, imo. Even better if they can grab a few foreign purchases from countries reluctant to buy Chinese, but priced out of the Western markets. A new F-5 or F-20 with modern avionics and engines isn't as nearly as capable as a Gripen or advanced block F-16/18 or Rafale or, or, or, but it'd still be a tidy package for many countries at a nice price point. And as a starting point and building block for their aerospace industry, it'll do just fine, imo.

a reply to: RadioRobert

Always enjoy your thoughts, thank you.

India. The procurement gift that keeps on giving. The head of the Air Force is now saying they want the Tejas AND the foreign fighter program.

www.forbes.com...

I think the reporting on this is screwy.

They ordered 83 more Tejas Mk1A's born of the Indian LCA "Light Combat Aircraft" program. Made in India. Plus the 40 already under contract. So that's ~123 total under contract.
To replace Bisons and Jaguars (~150 total)

They still have a requirement for the "medium" fighter to replace the M2000's and MiG-29's (about 120). (And the navy wants a carrier-borne twin "medium" fighter to replace the MiG-29). With attrition numbers, they want 126 minimum and an option for 63 more. Those will need to be foreign-buys because they can't wait/hope for Tejas II indefinitely.

The LCA buy just kills the hopes for the smaller competitors for the medium fighter buy. No need for a Gripen or F-16 buy if you're buying large amounts of LCA. The foreign-buy will probably be filled by something more capable like more Rafales.

Right now, India has purchased 36 Rafales for that medium requirement. Dassault and team are investing 50% of the Rafale purchase price back into HAL and other subs in India. They have been hashing more purchases for a long time, including to what extent Indian industry has future workshare (in the form of production, assembly, avionics, etc) or "offsets" like the original purchase. It's hard to imagine that the "medium fighter" requirements for the IAF won't be filled by more Rafales, now that the LCA portion is being filled.

The alternative was buying something cheaper like the F-16 or Gripen in large enough numbers (200+) to fill out the fleet so you wouldn't need to buy LCA en masse. Maybe supplemented by smaller numbers of (additional) Rafales and Sukhois. Replacing Bisons, Jags, M2000, and MiGs with one airframe. That was the original plan, and they had a requirement that the medium be single engine. That's how the Gripen and F-16 got into the mix.
That seems like a deadend if they are buying more Tejas airframes, and might have been a deadend anyway for financial reasons, even if it's attractive at face value.

There is maybe an outside chance for someone else to grab a "medium-fighter" contract, but it'd be all about the cost and the offsets or licensing. Seems like Dassault's to lose, especially given the co-existing Naval requirement.


India is also continuing to license produce the Su-30 in India as the "high" or "heavy" part of their mix.


But India's procurement is completely fouled up for sure. It's been a mess for a long time. Like everything else there are competing interests and requirements engaged in a struggle for $. And the decision -makers aren't static (or necessarily competent). And they are worse than most.

Boeing gave them our manufacturing techniques so why not?

Indias software engineers and coders are pretty damn good though.Just interesting to see how their quality control is going to run..

Seen at SPF

www.thehindu.com...