Eternal damnation how bad can it be

a reply to: DISRAELI

Is there actually anything other than presence?

It is not really a choice..... it is either realised that there is only presence or there is a belief in time.

originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: Lazarus Short
You are assuming that your puny will overrides God's sovereign Will. I believe God is both willing and able to save us from death, suffering and our own sinful nature.

Are you saying that there is no suffering whatsoever in the afterlife, despite our spiritual condition upon death? If not, what do you mean?

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in the near term, but glory and happiness in the long run, because God will become All in all.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015

It’s called eternal destruction in the bible
Meaning eternally destroyed, away from God
Probably means just complete and utter nothing, like before you were born

I have never read eternal punishment for humans, outside of Jesus humanity is not eternal
How could I be happy in heaven knowing people are suffering eternal pain in hell, makes no sense a loving God would or could do that

Catholic doctrine based on Greek religion

Think you got it wrong

As for everyone in heaven, unless you request a desire to spend eternity with Jesus, He can’t force it, choice

Oh, but what about...irresistible Grace?

The same Christians who advocate an "away from the presence of God" type of Hell also affirm that God is everywhere, all the time. Come again...?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Lazarus Short

No longer having anxiety over dying is at least a sliver of heaven.

Leaving the fear of Hell behind is better.

a reply to: Lazarus Short

It seems more like Hell is everywhere and God is nowhere to be found.

If we crap in our own beds I think God is indifferent. If we want a better quality of life for the people living on Earth it is up to us to work towards it.

It would be like Nickel Back, Justin Bieber or whatever song you hate is on constant replay.

There was one Twilight Zone episode, where a mobster ended up in a casino after dying. At first, the mobster tries his luck, and end up winning all the time. Hell, everyone likes him, he the life of the party, the goons keep laughing at his jokes all the beautiful women cant get enough of him winning. The mobster calls it paradise or heaven.

After a while, the mobster realizes that he cant stop winning all the time, and that something is wrong an grows bored due to a lack of entropy

No matter what he did or went, he always got positive reactions or won which was making him sick of it an wanted to leave.

Then he realized he was in Hell.

No one goes to God except through Jesus. Jesus died on the cross for your sins. When you ask Jesus for forgiveness, into your heart, and accept his gift of salvation, only then He will take your sins and give you the gift of salvation.

Otherwise when you go to the judgment seat, God will see your sin, and condem you. Those who accepted Jesus, God will see His righteousness in you because Jesus already paid the price of your sin.

As far as hell goes it will be the absence of God with fallen angels aslo known as demons that will hate you. This type of hate I got a glimpse of once, and it is nothing like when one person hates another and wants to kill them. Maginfy that by a million times if not more. They love tourtore physical and mental.

God is light, so there will be an absence of light. God is love, mercy, and compassion, so there will only be hate without mercy or compassion. The more you are in terror and scream the more they will love it. God will wipe your tears away, so there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus is the river of life and bread, so there will be no water or food.

Look at the story of the rich man and lazarous, where the rich man pleaded to have a single drop of water off the tip of lazarous finger. Lack of water.

In many of the near death stories I read and saw on youtube, they basically all said the same thing, the next life is more real than the one we are living. Colors are more vibrant and many more of them, smell is more powerful, they were more aware of themselves, all senses were intensified. Pain eill be intensified.

Then in the book of revelation at the end he will throw the fallen angels and those who did not get the gift of salvation in the lake of fire that will burn forever. It will be like someone who has such intense pain that they just want to die, but they will not be able to die.

How bad can it be? Bad. Very, very bad. Do you know where you are going when you die?

Just being a good person will not cut it. If you go before a righteous judge and you ever lied, cheated, stolen, and etc in your entire life you are in sin. If you get a dui do you think the judge is going to let you off because you Voulenteered somewhere, help people out, just been a good person? No. You will get a fine and/or get a jail sentense on top of that.

The good news is Jesus already paid your fine. All you need to do is accept him that he died on the cross for your sins. If you haven't done so yet, ask him into your heart. Jesus I believe you died for me, and accept your gift of salvation.

Yes it is that important to repeat twice. God does not want one of us to go to hell. The choice is ours.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: dfnj2015

It’s called eternal destruction in the bible
Meaning eternally destroyed, away from God
Probably means just complete and utter nothing, like before you were born

I have never read eternal punishment for humans, outside of Jesus humanity is not eternal
How could I be happy in heaven knowing people are suffering eternal pain in hell, makes no sense a loving God would or could do that

Catholic doctrine based on Greek religion

Think you got it wrong

As for everyone in heaven, unless you request a desire to spend eternity with Jesus, He can’t force it, choice

Oh, but what about...irresistible Grace?

The same Christians who advocate an "away from the presence of God" type of Hell also affirm that God is everywhere, all the time. Come again...?

So what’s irresistible grace, I am intrigued
Can you elaborate, not likely...

a reply to: Mystery_Lady

I am the way, the truth and the life.

Just because it is said that Jesus said it does not mean that a man called Jesus is the way the truth and the life.

I AM.

I am is present tense.....realise the timeless........being.

On the other hand;
Christ is the visible image of the invisible God........ God is seeing the ever present image.

Is the seer separate from the seen?
Or are 'they' one?
Can any apparent thing appear outside of the seeing?

a reply to: Mystery_Lady

Jesus preached love not hell, Jesus never used a big stick

Christianity is about Gods love not hell, don’t believe the narrative the Catholic Church set up

www.rightreason.org...

This Bad!

God is not a bad man.

a reply to: dfnj2015

A) Christianity has constantly morphed and changed. Hell is maybe it’s newest addition.

Judaism has no Hell..


Hell didn’t originate until long after the church seized government power.which makes nothing but sense.... try riding up to a camp full of Vikings and telling them “my god is gonna torture your soul for all eternity, if you don’t do as I say!!”


That only works when you are the establishment..



B) I’m not sure all the “god is love” stuff is not a VERY new narrative..


The Bible tells many “god is wrath and vengeance “ tales..

If we are assuming Christianity is real, nature sure is not all love.. nature is uncaring...

a reply to: dfnj2015

It's not just you but others that always talk about God's love yet you never speak of his anger or wrath, why is that?

God is not the one who judges man, did you not know this? .... it is his son, Yeshua. Yeshua will judge all mankind yet you seem to never speak of this, why is that?

And what about the millions of people who hate God and want nothing to do with him, don't want to live with him or live in heaven? What about these people? Will God force them to live in heaven? Doesn't sound like a loving God to me.

What about the millions that want to live with Lucifer and not God? Will they too be forced to live in heaven against their will?

What about those millions of people who do not want to live for eternity? Is God going to make them live forever?

Your logic makes no sense, and trying not to be mean but:

"Your imagination and ideas will be your destruction." You speak like Simon Magnus

originally posted by: Raggedyman

So what’s irresistible grace, I am intrigued
Can you elaborate, not likely...

Only intrigued, as if you don't know? I doubt you don't. I believe God has a plan to reconcile every last human, and we can put it off, but ultimately our puny wills, as well as our knees, must bend to God's Will. If not, God is not all-powerful, but He is. That being so, He is able to save us...but is He willing to do so? Ah, that is the question most trip up on. If you can bypass the BS that Damnationists have inserted into the text, yes He is. As He asked Job, Is anything too difficult for Me? No, nothing.

This is just off the top of my head - do I need to dig for chapter and verse?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: Mystery_Lady

Jesus preached love not hell, Jesus never used a big stick

Christianity is about Gods love not hell, don’t believe the narrative the Catholic Church set up

www.rightreason.org...

That might have been a big stick. Jesus did talk about hell/ hades eternal judgment, and etc to warn us. The question did deal with eternal damnation.

How bad can it be? Many times I hear arguments it is not that bad. They relate what is going to happen to the natural. What has been experienced in the natural. What is being talked about is in the spiritual. We only have glimpses. When the Bible says eternal torment, I'm not going to believe anything less.

The Catholic would call me a heritic now. I walked away a long time ago. I believe what the Bible says.

Jesus did teach mainly on God's love. The most loving message is the salvation message. For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that who so ever believe in him will not perish but have eternal life.

What if you were able to talk to someone one time, that was the only time they were able to get to hear the word. What would your message be?

Mine would not be just God loves you, but the salvation message.

Threr were 4 times I know of where I missed sharing the message because of fear. Three of those times were to witches. They came right out of the clear blue I wasn't thinking about witnessing. I missed the chances.

The other one had a great fear of what's going on in the world. I talked about Jesus, but afterward in my heart I knew I missed it.

I could go on. I try to frame everything to the topic at hand. I do get a little irritated when hell is extremely diminished to the point a person thinks they will be ok if God rejects them. They will not be ok. Far from it.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: Mystery_Lady

I am the way, the truth and the life.

Just because it is said that Jesus said it does not mean that a man called Jesus is the way the truth and the life.

I AM.

I am is present tense.....realise the timeless........being.

On the other hand;
Christ is the visible image of the invisible God........ God is seeing the ever present image.

Is the seer separate from the seen?
Or are 'they' one?
Can any apparent thing appear outside of the seeing?

In the case for Christ, it has been proven beyond doubt that Jesus did exist and he did die on the cross. No one has been able to refute his ressruction.

Jesus is God come down in the flesh. He is the way, the truth, and the life. God is I AM. They are one in the same. The Alpha and Omega.

originally posted by: Lazarus Short

originally posted by: Raggedyman

So what’s irresistible grace, I am intrigued
Can you elaborate, not likely...

Only intrigued, as if you don't know? I doubt you don't. I believe God has a plan to reconcile every last human, and we can put it off, but ultimately our puny wills, as well as our knees, must bend to God's Will. If not, God is not all-powerful, but He is. That being so, He is able to save us...but is He willing to do so? Ah, that is the question most trip up on. If you can bypass the BS that Damnationists have inserted into the text, yes He is. As He asked Job, Is anything too difficult for Me? No, nothing.

This is just off the top of my head - do I need to dig for chapter and verse?

God already gave us a way to salvation. It is our choice whether to accept it or not.

As to those who have not heard about him, I believe like Abarham righteousness was counted towards Him.

There is nothing to difficult for God as God told Job.

You got me thinking. Plan to reconsile every last human. At least give them a chance. I have always been taught that your last chance was at death.

According to some near death experiences that is not always the case. There are those in hell or going towards hell called out to Jesus, he brought them back to life to give them another chance.

In the Book of revelations I can't remember all the time lines. Jesus will have 1000 year reign. After satan will be let loose for a time before He gets thrown in the pit of fire in hell. Is that period of time somehow to reconsile everyone? I would love to know why he would be allowed loose again after the final battle.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Lazarus Short

It seems more like Hell is everywhere and God is nowhere to be found.

If we crap in our own beds I think God is indifferent. If we want a better quality of life for the people living on Earth it is up to us to work towards it.

When Jesus the Christ is finished with the new heavens and new earth, He says, "Behold, I make all things new." He does not credit man for anything.

originally posted by: Mystery_Lady


God already gave us a way to salvation. It is our choice whether to accept it or not.

As to those who have not heard about him, I believe like Abarham righteousness was counted towards Him.

There is nothing to difficult for God as God told Job.

You got me thinking. Plan to reconsile every last human. At least give them a chance. I have always been taught that your last chance was at death.

According to some near death experiences that is not always the case. There are those in hell or going towards hell called out to Jesus, he brought them back to life to give them another chance.

In the Book of revelations I can't remember all the time lines. Jesus will have 1000 year reign. After satan will be let loose for a time before He gets thrown in the pit of fire in hell. Is that period of time somehow to reconsile everyone? I would love to know why he would be allowed loose again after the final battle.

Preachers preach it, pew-warmers believe it, but the Bible nowhere says that there is no chance after death.

The Bible also nowhere says that the "the pit of fire in hell" is Hell. It is called the Lake of Fire, and keep in mind that fire and sulfur (brimstone) are both agents of purification, not destruction or torture.