Mars is a stupid idea

It fascinates me seeing some of the "greatest" minds of our time obsessed with going to Mars, because it's a stupid idea.

Unfiltered solar & cosmic radiation galore, lack of oxygen & liquid water, extremely low nightly temperatures, not even warm daily temperatures, planetary scale dust storms that last years, and last not but not least soil toxic to plants. Oh, and its a gabazillion miles from Earth for when Murphey's Law inevitably comes knocking.

Consider, would you like to live underwater? By that I dont mean go stay at some fancy hotel for a seminar, but I mean REALLY live underwater with all of its technical challenges such as power and heating equipment going bad, water filtration concerns, oxygen issues, food and cleaning technical challenges, and so on.

Imagine not being able to go outside without a special suit, not being able to feel the suns rays on your skin ever, etc.


And this is the fantasy version compared to Mars, from the realm that inspires sexy Mermaid's amongst other endless wonders.


Then there's reality:


Desert! The sort of realm that inspires visions of struggle; of fire demons like Ifrit:


I know I've been enjoying the list of shows and films about Mars in recent years, but then again I enjoy a good ghost movie even though I dont believe in them. Take for example Matt Damon's "The Martian (2015)", the central plot device being him growing potatoes and living 'high on the hog' compared to many other Mars flicks.

But once again Truth likes to kick us silly humans in the teeth:

Martian soil is toxic, due to relatively high concentrations of perchlorate compounds containing chlorine. Elemental chlorine was first discovered during localised investigations by Mars rover Sojourner, and has been confirmed by Spirit, Opportunity and Curiosity. The Mars Odyssey orbiter has also detected perchlorates across the surface of the planet.

The NASA Phoenix lander first detected chlorine-based compounds such as calcium perchlorate. The levels detected in the Martian soil are around 0.5%, which is a level considered toxic to humans.[3] These compounds are also toxic to plants. A 2013 terrestrial study found that a similar level of concentration to that found on Mars (0.5 g per liter) caused:

-a significant decline in the chlorophyll content in plant leaves,
-reduction in the oxidizing power of plant roots
-reduction in the size of the plant both above and below ground
-an accumulation of concentrated perchlorates in the leaves

The report noted that one of the types of plant studied seemed resistant to the perchlorates and could be used to help remove the toxins in its environment, although the plants themselves would end up containing a high concentration of perchlorates as a result.[4] There is evidence that some bacterial lifeforms are able to overcome perchlorates and even live off them. However, the added effect of the high levels of UV reaching the surface of Mars breaks the molecular bonds, creating even more dangerous chemicals which in lab tests on Earth were shown to be more lethal to bacteria than the perchlorates alone. en.wikipedia.org...

In that film the situation is set in motion by a dust storm. Of course that came off as the likes you'd see on Earth. In reality:



And it's downhill from there. I mean imagine living on a desert island. At least there it might rain any day, and a ship might go by in the next few weeks. When it goes wrong on Mars, and it WILL, nope you're done.

"Hope is a dangerous thing" as they say, often because of what happens when you lose it. Even just living on a remote island can be troublesome enough, such as when you need certain medicines, or even just dish soap!

So what are 'they' thinking? I'd say its half being immortalized in History to get to be The First, then there's the corporate exploitation angles involved. Besides that, this is the realm of robots as we already know enough about what's there to know better, opposed to say the sorts that set out to find and explore the New World, there's just no comparison when actual logic enters the picture.

Unless that is somebody has a "warp drive", but that's right that's fiction and we have how much evidence such a thing is even possible? I'd say even if it is, by the time we 'know how' to build one 'properly' for such a task at about that point if we started prepping the rest should be about how long it would take to prep the rest of the stuff. In that situation how we'd build for the trip would be largely different even!

So, yehyeah Elon Musk, 'get your ass to Mars'! Or how about you prove you really are the true ultimate genius and be The First to design a frickin warp drive. Otherwise you're bound to prove that very smart people are still human and are capable of very stupid things.

BUT, it's the best stupid idea we've got. Solving the challenges it takes to get to Mars isn't even yet trying to crawl when it comes to solving the huge technical problems we need to solve to get to another habitable planet.

Human nature is funny like that- without a goal there's no motivation. We need real world problems in order to innovate new solutions... So by going to Mars, we're creating ourselves some monumental problems to solve.

a reply to: lordcomac

Without a warp drive there is no other planet in anyones lifetime.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You're a stupid idea.

Edit:
And now that I've read your op.

You bring up good points about the challenges to be faced getting started. But we have to start somewhere don't we?

If we intend on reaching out passed our little neighborhood here, we'll need to learn those tough lessons of what does and doesn't work. That's the only way to get anywhere is one step at a time.

Good thread though to bring some perspective and reality back to the conversation.

a reply to: watchitburn

Truth is a stupid idea eh.

Well then by all means:

It should be every bit as a cozy a place as your profile image looks to be.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

And the best part is... there are people that are lining up to go to mars, with no chance of return as it stands

Lets just say the TV show will be a hit

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: lordcomac

Without a warp drive there is no other planet in anyones lifetime.

Colony ships are a crazy idea, but right now it is a somewhat realistic solution.

And yeah, a lot could go wrong. Even with back up ships closely behind. The great Isaac Arthur did an outstanding video on his Youtube channel discussing the possibilities in depth.

a reply to: Akragon



Shouldnt be much a surprise when half the people out there pray for the apocalypse to come and 'solve' their problems. Instead of trying to actually solve them and make of life on Earth into a 'Heaven'.

a reply to: Akragon

I'd still go.
It would suck, but would still be awesome.

Trying to colonize other planets when our planet still needs great improvements towards sustainability... It is a ridiculous vanity. Stay grounded.

This won't do! Someone actually thinking logically about going to Mars? You know better than to point out reality to stargazers. Actually, it's Mars or bust. It's the first and only possible step man could make regardless of if it is possible of even practical at this point.

Don't burst their bubble. It's the only one they have of ever getting off this planet

It's Mars or bust...

But, reality says, develop AI and Robotics first and forget sending humans until then.

I can hardly imagine a well educated survivalist, semi-practiced survivalist type would find such an task to be a good one. There are just details involved in surviving off the grid (alone), the little things, that you just cant fully appreciate until you've done it. Like how I brought up dish soap; thats just scratching the surface. Humans will figure out a fire and water, shelter, but to make it a life even remotely worth living is this whole other dimension of affairs and time-tables that would drive most people to the noose.

Another way to approach this larger issue, imagine if NASA started building the Moon buggy and all that sort of stuff before they even had rockets; started packing the flag they (supposedly) stuck into the surface before they even had astronauts. That's about the situation here.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Akragon

I'd still go.
It would suck, but would still be awesome.

Im not sure how awesome it would be... in fact, im pretty sure it would suck ass!

I mean... niftly place to visit... wouldn't want to live there

Plus theres no pub...

a reply to: Akragon

If I could go as a secret agent then maybe, maaaaaybe.


But only for two weeks!

Going to Mars is a GREAT idea. We need to get away from this Earth successfully, and ultimately away from this solar system, if we are to survive. It's just a matter of time before the next asteroid hits and wipes out civilization. If you are the kind that is into self-loathing of mankind and believe we should not survive, I have nothing further to say to you for I have no respect at all for your position. Go back to the basement.

If you think going to Mars is "stupid" because we could "do more things on Earth," then I see that you are not of a courageous nature and in ancient times you would have refused to cross the first large river you encountered because it was "too wide." I get that. Some people simply do not have the gene to venture over the next ridge. For you the answer is simply to stay home. Stay where you are. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if you do choose to stay home, don't tell the rest of us we are required to stay with you. I believe you have the absolute right to stay home, but I also believe you have no right to make me or anyone else stay home with you. That route leads to ultimate stagnation and death. I believe that route is short sighted and myopic. Who knows what we will find and how that will impact humanity as a whole? If we lose that spirit, we lose the race.

Apparently some of us already have.

a reply to: schuyler

Okay well you pay for it.

I'll throw down on it when there's a warp drive.

You dont even have a moon colony yet.

REALITY: All this "practice" you guys talk about we can get that on the Moon.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: watchitburn

Truth is a stupid idea eh.

Well then by all means:

It should be every bit as a cozy a place as your profile image looks to be.

Here is the real story. We, a warring species, are going to do some craZ things that might create an extinction level event. Right now we have science willing to try very dangerous things in an attempt to get ahead of the other war like governments.

The Nuclear bomb was theorized to work by great minds but it was also a concern that once started the reaction would continue until the Earth was one big fireball. I know people who ultimately lost their lives to constant radiation poisoning working on the bomb. Just like The Dr's Curie had through ignorance of the reactions reach at the sub atomic levels.

a reply to: schuyler

Leave this solar system? Using which form of propulsion? Please, do enlightenspeeddriver me.

Mars is a stupid idea?

Just wait for the Earth shattering kaboom...

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You seem to be very ignorant of such an idea.
MARS is not the end goal but a stepping stone. And if we as a whole can’t make that step then we may as well give up.
Living here on Earth has proven to be difficult so why expect anything different from another body?
Why are you so fast to dismiss the idea of going to MARS?