Mars is a stupid idea

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Cold, no oxygen, not enough light to grow crops, little to no water and isolated from Earth (where we are, for now, relatively safe) by millions of miles of space.

Next question?

ETA I forgot. No magnetosphere either.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

How about, we prove we can build a Moon colony and make it work first.

The 'cheddar' is there:

Renewable Energy on the Moon.
Resources on the Moon are abundant. Platinum, silicon, iron, titanium, ammonia, mercury, and even water have been proven to exist on the Moon. However, the one resource that is very rare on Earth but abundant on the Moon is helium-3. www.azocleantech.com...

Helium-3 (He3) is gas that has the potential to be used as a fuel in future nuclear fusion power plants. There is very little helium-3 available on the Earth. However, there are thought to be significant supplies on the Moon. Several governments have subsequently signalled their intention to go to the Moon to mine helium-3 as a fuel supply.

To provide a little background -- and without getting deeply into the science -- all nuclear power plants use a nuclear reaction to produce heat. This is used to turn water into steam that then drives a turbine to produce electricity. Current nuclear power plants have nuclear fission reactors in which uranium nuclei are split part. This releases energy, but also radioactivity and spent nuclear fuel that is reprocessed into uranium, plutonium and radioactive waste which has to be safety stored, effectively indefinitely. An overview of this nuclear fuel cycle can be found here.

For over 40 years scientists have been working to create nuclear power from nuclear fusion rather than nuclear fission. In current nuclear fusion reactors, the hydrogen isotopes tritium and deuterium are used as the fuel, with atomic energy released when their nuclei fuse to create helium and a neutron. Nuclear fusion effectively makes use of the same energy source that fuels the Sun and other stars, and does not produce the radioactivity and nuclear waste that is the by-product of current nuclear fission power generation. However, the so-termed "fast" neutrons released by nuclear fusion reactors fuelled by tritium and deuterium lead to significant energy loss and are extremely difficult to contain. One potential solution may be to use helium-3 and deuterium as the fuels in "aneutronic" (power without neutrons) fusion reactors. The involved nuclear reaction here when helium-3 and deuterium fuse creates normal helium and a proton, which wastes less energy and is easier to contain. Nuclear fusion reactors using helium-3 could therefore provide a highly efficient form of nuclear power with virtually no waste and no radiation. www.explainingthefuture.com...

originally posted by: schuyler
Going to Mars is a GREAT idea. We need to get away from this Earth successfully, and ultimately away from this solar system, if we are to survive. It's just a matter of time before the next asteroid hits and wipes out civilization. If you are the kind that is into self-loathing of mankind and believe we should not survive, I have nothing further to say to you for I have no respect at all for your position. Go back to the basement.

If you think going to Mars is "stupid" because we could "do more things on Earth," then I see that you are not of a courageous nature and in ancient times you would have refused to cross the first large river you encountered because it was "too wide." I get that. Some people simply do not have the gene to venture over the next ridge. For you the answer is simply to stay home. Stay where you are. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if you do choose to stay home, don't tell the rest of us we are required to stay with you. I believe you have the absolute right to stay home, but I also believe you have no right to make me or anyone else stay home with you. That route leads to ultimate stagnation and death. I believe that route is short sighted and myopic. Who knows what we will find and how that will impact humanity as a whole? If we lose that spirit, we lose the race.

Apparently some of us already have.

no

No, we will live forever......you knew this as a child

We don't need Mars for survival.....it's given to us freelike....!

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Why don't they just stop spending all these billions of dollars on these pointless missions and instead use that money to research anti-gravity technology. It's like building a spaceship to go to Alpha Centauri except that it will take however many hundreds of years to get there and everybody has to be in cryostasis for that time, only to get there and we're already there because we developed warp travel within those hundreds of years. The money would be better off spent on researching AG tech, unless we've already got it and they're keeping it from us because that would lead to free energy.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Cold, no oxygen, not enough light to grow crops, little to no water and isolated from Earth (where we are, for now, relatively safe) by millions of miles of space.

Next question?

All the more reason to go. We have to learn at some point.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Why build a moon colony when we can go to Mars?
At least we can be protected from micrometers while setting up a colony. And learn more from a Mars trip vs going back to the moon.
Just seems silly to not go to Mars.

Git yah ahhss ta mahhhs!

David Wilcock swears the Nazis had bases on the moon and Mars - in 1940! Obviously they already mastered the difficulties or Martian living and today's scientists are simply going to use old technology. Do try to keep up with modern science IIB! Sorry if I embarrassed you by posting the harsh truth for all to see.

OP, you have many inaccuracies in your post. Let's start with the easiest to address.

Mars temperatures ARE normally cold, however, put into perspective that there are sections of Earth that are so cold you would die in minutes, if exposed.

Along the Martian equator, temperatures actually get as reasonable as 68 Fahrenheit.

There is water, trapped in ice, fairly certain we know that beyond "reasonable" doubt at this point.
(Some is also tied up in desiccant compounds in the planet's surface.)

It does not completely lack an atmosphere. It has one. It's a meager fraction of the pressure of Earth's atmosphere, BUT, it DOES exist.

Mars is a reasonable stepping stone for our technology. We can not even fathom a method by which you could survive on most of the other planets. Perhaps a moon would be a better goal, but that point is arguable, as the interesting moons are much much farther than Mars.

The major commodity on Mars, is the planet surface area, itself.

We can't all own a house on Earth. (Mostly because a bunch of dickheads "need" their 20 acre mansions.)

Expanding our exploding population off planet is a solution. It can be argued that there are better alternatives, nonetheless this is technically a way to resolve it in the long term.

Also, feel free to design a better mission plan for another celestial body and submit it to NASA. That's what Zubrin did, with Mars Direct. If you have a better idea, give it to them. But don't whine like a baby without putting a tangible alternative on the table.

It would be better to start closer like on the moon or building O neil colonies. Building on Mars should be done underground if possible. Same as the moon. Solar panels and reactors can be left on surface level.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

You seem to be very ignorant of such an idea.
MARS is not the end goal but a stepping stone. And if we as a whole can’t make that step then we may as well give up.
Living here on Earth has proven to be difficult so why expect anything different from another body?
Why are you so fast to dismiss the idea of going to MARS?

Good points and better than my attempt at it, thanks.

The idea is to use the planets and whatever planetoids/asteroids we can manage to live on to expand humanity to a place where one event doesn't have to end us like happened to many of the Dino's.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

Why build a moon colony when we can go to Mars?
At least we can be protected from micrometers while setting up a colony. And learn more from a Mars trip vs going back to the moon.
Just seems silly to not go to Mars.

We should do both and dig in on the Moon to provide protection form Meteors.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

The top of Mt. Everest was stupid! My god, anything above 26,000 feet can't survive due to the lack of oxygen! Nothing can live there! It's constantly below freezing, windy as hell and has white out conditions all the time!

What's the freaking point of going up there? It's completely useless! No human has any reason to be up there! They should of just waited until someone invented a drone and maybe sent back a picture or two. How stupid!

The Marianna's Trench! WTF did anyone go down to the Challenger Deep for? That was just asinine! No one is going to live that deep under the freaking ocean! Hardly anything can live down there! There's absolutely NO reason for any human to have gone down there! What a damn waste of time and money! Why have a human do it? Who cares?

What in the world were they thinking about going to the North or South poles??? That was just freaking stupid! It's so cold that people freeze to death in those places! There isn't really anything there except snow and ice (and some rocks in Antarctica's case). No one can really live there except for constant resupply! They're all idiots! What a huge waste of freaking money!

WTF were they thinking sending people to the Moon for god's sake? Stupid! It's outside of the Earth's magnetic field! If a major solar eruption had happened they would have died! Why go there? It's a vacuum! Nothing can grow there, you can live there! I'm an angry guy with a gripe about it!!!!

[ /sarcasm ]



Fortunately for the rest of the human race, our sense of curiosity, adventure and need to explore does not rest with you.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: schuyler

Leave this solar system? Using which form of propulsion? Please, do enlightenspeeddriver me.

Oh, for Chrst's sake! This is what I mean: Myopia. Because we can't do it TODAY, we can NEVER do it!

No, we will live forever......you knew this as a child. We don't need Mars for survival.....it's given to us freelike....!

I meant as a flesh and blood species, not a spirit. The religious section is over there ----->.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: schuyler

Okay well you pay for it.

I'll throw down on it when there's a warp drive.

You dont even have a moon colony yet.

REALITY: All this "practice" you guys talk about we can get that on the Moon.

Sure. Either lead or follow or get out of the way.

The Moon isn't good enough, though it may be necessary as a stepping stone. Warp Drive will sort itself out. Meanwhile, there's no excuse to wait for it. Mars First. Warp Drive second.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

It might be a stupid idea for you to go there, I know it would be stupid for me to go there.

Still, there are a lot of people I would like to send there.

a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

How about we set up a colony under the sea first? We haven't even been to the moon yet.

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: IgnoranceIsntBlisss

How about we set up a colony under the sea first? We haven't even been to the moon yet.

Of course, we have idiocy like this to deal with as well.

originally posted by: IgnoranceIsntBlisss
a reply to: lordcomac

Without a warp drive there is no other planet in anyones lifetime.

There is more than one way to skin a cat. It may not be warp drive, but it would work.

Project Orion

The Orion concept offered high thrust and high specific impulse, or propellant efficiency, at the same time. The unprecedented extreme power requirements for doing so would be met by nuclear explosions, of such power relative to the vehicle's mass as to be survived only by using external detonations without attempting to contain them in internal structures. As a qualitative comparison, traditional chemical rockets—such as the Saturn V that took the Apollo program to the Moon—produce high thrust with low specific impulse, whereas electric ion engines produce a small amount of thrust very efficiently. Orion would have offered performance greater than the most advanced conventional or nuclear rocket engines then under consideration. Supporters of Project Orion felt that it had potential for cheap interplanetary travel, but it lost political approval over concerns with fallout from its propulsion.

a reply to: schuyler

Thank you. I had to think for a long time before I came up with that post.

Yet Professor Carl Sagan once said that we could have Mars ready to colonize within one lifetime .
Seeding with lichens and then ...guess what ?
Putting factories there
" Believe it , or not"