Brexit Donald Tusk tells European Union to approve deal

a reply to: Freeborn

Well here is hoping because Brexit will only add to austerity imho.

As to this better future for your daughter, that remains to be seen.

Certainly a more divided future, that's a given.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

That's because it been herd before.

Our disparity where our treatment of OAP is concerned is rather apparent.

Nomatter which way you care to look at it.

Even a proper, old school labour government with a massive majority in the house wouldn't be allowed to remove vat on fuel or change the procurement rules to help out struggling native industry.
That is the reality of EU membership, we can't vote for people able to make significant changes to our laws anymore, that's why the majority voted to leave, so that we can change things.

a reply to: SprocketUK

We can't change law in the UK without the house of lords say so anyway.

So where is the difference there really?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: oldcarpy

Like i said the idea is to accommodate the masses and not the few.

No system of government does this, has done this in recorded history, or plans to do so any time soon.

Whats your suggestion Brexit, austerity and more Tory bullcrap per-chance?

You were the one wanting to change our democratic system, not me.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: SprocketUK

We can't change law in the UK without the house of lords say so anyway.

So where is the difference there really?

I can see you will accept whatever the eu does, no matter how badly because , well, just because eh?

You really expect the lords to ever vote down a budget that takes vat off household fuel and not then face annhialation by referendum of angry voters? get real.

a reply to: andy06shake

Well here is hoping because Brexit will only add to austerity imho.

How so?

My point is that whilst we've been in the EU The Tories have been able to carry out their austerity policies with impunity, why would remaining in the EU alter that?

Has the EU tried to limit or restrict these policies?

No, so why would they increase if we leave?

Scaremongering of the highest order and not one little bit of supportive evidence or reasoning to back your claim up.

As to this better future for your daughter, that remains to be seen.

Exactly the same as your apocalyptic vision of the future.

Certainly a more divided future, that's a given.

No, it is not a given.

Brexit would be a great opportunity for the people to unite and demand that we move forward in a positive way that benefits the ordinary people of this country and not the established elites.
The continued divisiveness of the Remainers only serves to maintain the status quo.

a reply to: oldcarpy

What democratic system? LoL

We live in a Monarchy.

And the semblance democratic say we do have in place for show is nothing but window dressing.

a reply to: Freeborn

My vision of the future is not apocalyptic, just a whole lot more Orwellian, if that's possible.

We are not lucky enough to have an apocalypse, as there is no monies or profit to be had for the bankers.

a reply to: andy06shake

And the semblance democratic we do have in place for show is nothing but window dressing.

All pretence of being a democracy will be well and truly shattered if the result of a democratic referendum is ignored and Brexit is not enacted.

Or was the referendum undemocratic?

If you really believe in democracy why should the result of the referendum be ignored?

a reply to: Freeborn

I believe in the idea of democracy.

I dont believe in the people who rule, that's a given.

Hows the referendum being ignored? Brexit is happening, no stopping it now.

a reply to: andy06shake

My vision of the future is not apocalyptic, just a whole lot more Orwellian, if that's possible.

Please elaborate.

If you think we currently live in some sort of 'Orwellian' state how come you're free to express your displeasure at this system anywhere and anyhow you like?

How exactly will it get worse if we come out of the EU? - bear in mind the people voted against the wishes of the establishment and the elites, they are Remainers as you are.

a reply to: Freeborn

Depends on what you consider to be free.

Just because of we appear to be free doesn't mean we are not being constantly monitored and manipulated.

After all the perfect form of imprisonment is one you don't realize already exists, or worse accept willingly.

"How exactly will it get worse if we come out of the EU?"

How exactly will it be better, and when for that matter?

originally posted by: andy06shake
This is about austerity, immigration, and the rich getting richer whilst everyone else takes the hit.

No it is NOT.

It is about leaving the EU. Better to leave now because it's corrupt and will

implode sooner or later anyway, there are other dissatisfied members waiting

in the wings, Italy .... Greece..... Hungary....

The majority can now see Brexit for the chocolate teapot it always has been.

You have that the wrong way around, its the EU which is the chocolate teapot.

The majority of the UK will be far worse of in the short term.

I for one am prepared to take a short term hit for a long time gain for future

generations.

The UK on its own will be leaner and meaner and better able to do trade deals

as they will be able to make their own decissions and terms as they won't require

the agreement of 27 other countries...... thats the reason the EU takes so long

7/10 years to make deals/decissions.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: andy06shake

And the semblance democratic we do have in place for show is nothing but window dressing.

All pretence of being a democracy will be well and truly shattered if the result of a democratic referendum is ignored and Brexit is not enacted.

Or was the referendum undemocratic?

If you really believe in democracy why should the result of the referendum be ignored?

A democracy should not be ruled by a mob.

A mob which is surprised to see that its wish might be fulfilled.

But the mob does not know about its wish. Every part of the mob has other ideas. Many of them contradicting others, all of them "important" like hell.

The mob is hesitating. The mob does what any mob does best - ensuing chaos. And that is my prediction.

a reply to: eletheia

So we swap one corrupt system for another?

That's really smart eh?

Time will tell with Brexit.

Now i need to go get kids from School whilst they still have the privilege of attending such.

Catch up later.

a reply to: andy06shake

the democratic system whereby we elect the Government and we got to vote on Brexit. Are you suggesting that the Queen overrules all that and that Parliament does not govern the country or something?

We had a bit of a Civil War about this, you know?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

What "mob"?

originally posted by: andy06shake


People have been getting poorer since the minimum wage and zero hour contracts were introduced, that's a given.
How many old age pensioner die each year down to gas and electricity pricing?
We will never remove VAT on power. "They" want those poor old souls out the picture, not in it.

The UK didn't have VAT till they joined the EU

VAT: a brief history - Telegraph
www.telegraph.co.uk...
13 Apr 2010 - VAT was originally a French idea, started in the 1950s. Britain introduced it as part of its condition of joining the E.E.C.


There by increasing the cost of living.

a reply to: andy06shake

There seems to be no substance to your posts in this thread.

You are persistently saying things will get worse in a post-Brexit UK yet when pressed for details you offer up nothing at all except 'how exactly will it be better'.

You made the claims things will get worse.....try and give some credence to these claims by explaining exactly how you think things will deteriorate.

originally posted by: tinymind
a reply to: UpIsNowDown

If the Brits are really wanting to leave the E U, why not give up Northern Ireland and not have to worry about a border there.
I would think this one thing would make the negotiations go a lot faster.
Why do they think they should stay there anyway?

Do you get rid of friends and relatives just because things become inconvenient??