The Latest: The new alternative facts: ‘Truth isn’t truth’

a reply to: network dude

I read up on Ohr a bit yesterday. I actually do believe it's possible to be apolitical while doing your job - and still have bias and of course a point of view. Don't you?

Funny thing is, all of what you claim is happening behind the scenes also happened when they were investigating Benghazi. Or was that whole thing apolitical? See, whataboutism serves no useful purpose

The CIA. the FBI - Congress, the Senate - they all have a mixed history of honesty. No matter which party we're talking about. But, until recently, I would have bet money on congress giving a crap more than they seem to give about Russian interference. There's plenty of people in both camps that have said it happened - openly and emphatically. Including McConnell and Ryan. Something is up - and it's not just loyalty to a man neither of them like or respect

So, I guess we're still stuck with waiting to see where this all goes - and hoping that we can keep the system together long enough to see it though

Giuliani is wasting his breath

a reply to: neo96

Trump is being railroaded.

And if the evidence says otherwise? Is there any evidence you would be willing to believe?

My opinion on the subject of “the truth” is that for most people, what is true is what they believe to be mostly true, or what they want to believe is true, or even what evokes the least amount of cognitive dissonance and lets them sleep easiest at night. Often times, the truth is rude, ugly, socially unacceptable, and offensive. The “truth” and politics of either party rarely co-mingle. I think most Americans realize that, even if they don’t admit it readily. During the last election cycle, I believe most Americans knew that both Hillary and Trump were liars who twisted their version of the truth to suit the people they hoped to persuade to vote for them. So, basically the election ended up being a choice for the liar that every voter disliked least. At that point, I think that any future lie from either Trump or Hillary was already at least partially excused. I think of it like being caught unprepared out in a rainstorm, at first you try to shield your head from the rain with your hands, but after enough raindrops fall, you abandon yourself to getting wet and stop trying to protect yourself from the rain. As far back as I can remember—my personal political memories reach back to Carter—we have been caught in a storm of lies—Iran hostages, Iran-contra affair, no new taxes, I didn’t have sex with that woman, whitewater, weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, the video caused Benghazi, I neither sent nor received emails, what with a cloth, Russia dossier, sex with strippers—so many lies that we are already well and truly drenched, so another drop, another lie only matters if it is something that doesn’t line up with whichever poor choice each voter decided on.

Also, with Trump, I think his supporters feel like that if they have already been called racist, homophobic, misogynist, that being called a liar, or someone who believes in a liar, is the least bad name or label they have been called.

As for this specific quote by Giuliani, it seems like from his statements about this he was saying that the interview is a perjury trap, because he believes that Mueller will ask Trump questions, and then will have someone else testify the exact opposite of what Trump says. Then, Mueller will decide which “truth” he believes and if he decides that what Trumps testifies as the truth isn’t what Meuller believes, then he will believe the opposing testimony is the truth—and then BAM the perjury. I also believe that Giuliani believes that Trump is well known to embellish and yes, lie, so it is best not to have him give testimony because he will trip himself up.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Evidence?

Like:

observer.com...

www.reuters.com...

So why haven't they been investigated for two years?

The only thing I still don't understand is why they choose to listen to a liar

Because they don't care about truth, or facts, or reality, or justice all they care about is having someone who attacks liberals. That's it, well and giving them tax breaks and deregulation.

a reply to: neo96

So why haven't they been investigated for two years?

Investigated for what? Unpaid undocumented workers speaking at a convention?

The complaint itself was far more narrow, and it was dismissed after Zloch ruled that the plaintiffs did not have standing. There was no evidence, the judge wrote, that anyone had donated to the DNC on the promise that the committee and its employees would be completely impartial.

Political shenanigans are not illegal

Anyhow Neo - you have to wonder what the hackers found at the RNC? Don't you wonder? Almost nobody ever talks about that - but there's a whole lot of weird going on

So, what evidence would it take to convince you that Trump worked with Russia to influence his own election?

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Political shenanigans are not illegal

Then what the EFF are people snipping about Russia for?

a reply to: neo96

Then what the EFF are people snipping about Russia for?

Conspiring with a foreign country to actually throw or, at the very least affect an election?

Very different from backroom deals within a party - between Americans

Politics is not a pretty affair, and ethics are important to everyone - kinda sorta

I know that the GOP would never stoop so low. There are no backroom deals that decide the fate of their party

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

Conspiring with a foreign country to actually throw or, at the very least affect an election?

Conspiring with foreign nationals to get people to vote for Clinton to affect the outcome of an election

Is not one damn bit different, and yet NOTHING.

originally posted by: ketsuko
The minute we moved away from objectivity as a philsophy - the idea that there are objective truths - and this happened long ago and was championed by progressives in the universities, you were set up for this.

After all, it all depends on what your definition of "is" is.

That is an awesome example of how the right no longer assigns any value to truth.

Your post was utter, unsupported BS.

First it was science, then math, now the wacko right derides "truth" itself as a lefty conspiracy.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: UKTruth
Do you seriously not understand Giuliani's point?
It's not that difficult.

There is not truth, only the narrative. It's all subjective these days.

No. There are facts and there is truth.

The right Wing's new hero is Goebel.

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: UKTruth
Do you seriously not understand Giuliani's point?
It's not that difficult.

There is not truth, only the narrative. It's all subjective these days.

No. There are facts and there is truth.

The right Wing's new hero is Goebel.

Hahaha. After all the smearing and propaganda by left wing ideologues and their media servants, the sheer hypocrisy of your comment made me laugh!

On a serious note, i doubt conservatives would idolize a left winger like Goebels.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: soberbacchus

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: UKTruth
Do you seriously not understand Giuliani's point?
It's not that difficult.

There is not truth, only the narrative. It's all subjective these days.

No. There are facts and there is truth.

The right Wing's new hero is Goebel.

Hahaha. After all the smearing and propaganda by left wing

Whataboutism..

Accuse a neighbor of shoplifting to excuse your own arrest?

Still confused how that thinking works.

a reply to: Kharron

Hahaha. This is another Giuliani statement that will cause the pea-brained press to seize up mentally!

a reply to: Kharron

Who do you find honest?

You're quick to point out how much anyone on the right lies.

So you must have SOME idea who is the most honest.

Who?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Kharron

Who do you find honest?

Wrong question.
People are not "truth". People are not "facts".

You're quick to point out how much anyone on the right lies.

Quick to point out lies.

It is not the observers fault that Trump or his minions lie so often.

To save time with all the various lies, the right now has decided that "truth" itself is not true.
"truth isn't truth".

It's like a lazy man's Goebel.

a reply to: soberbacchus

Truth is just someone's interpretation of the facts.

originally posted by: carewemust
a reply to: Kharron

Hahaha. This is another Giuliani statement that will cause the pea-brained press to seize up mentally!

"Alternative facts" "Truth isn't truth"

Seem mantra's uniquely suited for Trump Cult Followers. I wouldn't go as far as to call them "pea-brained" but the fact that Trump followers are attempting to defend the statements here does invite that and other questions.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Truth is just someone's interpretation of the facts.

If something can be verified/proven - it's a fact. If someone chooses not to believe that fact - that's a belief

If truth is up for grabs, maybe we should all be talking about facts - and not beliefs

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: DBCowboy

Truth is just someone's interpretation of the facts.

If something can be verified/proven - it's a fact. If someone chooses not to believe that fact - that's a belief

If truth is up for grabs, maybe we should all be talking about facts - and not beliefs

I'd settle for just facts and not someone's interpretation of the facts.

I'm an engineer. My job is in facts. Not truths, beliefs, feelings, ideologies.


Trump, politicians, media, take facts and filter it so their version of the truth is emitted.