The Problem with Disclosure; why the government and insiders are afraid to tell us what is going on

a reply to: nwtrucker
Trucker, you say

I used to be an avid Sci-fi fan many decades back and there isn't many scenarios that hasn't had pen put to paper, though.
You'd be surprised at what I 'believe'. Yours is in a similar....magnitude, I admit. I will leave it at that.

OH, don't just leave it at that. Like you I have read so much SF that I had it coming out my ears. Not just the stuff that made it to the screen, but the more speculative stuff, the conceptual stuff written by men and women in the scientific world who based their tales on emerging science theories. Speculative SF stuff.

So, you hint that OP would be surprised at what you believe, intimating that you have a vast conceptual belief system that you might have concocted from your own various life studies.

And here is the thing trucker. What I believe is also surprising, so surprising that it is hard to not only verbalize but to even nail down for myself to understand, You know? Does that make sense?

Most often, the posts you make I come across in the political threads and I find from stances you take that you and I approach the political spectrum from quite different perspectives.This is what interests me the most.

You see, I have a notion that many of us here are not shallow minded repeaters, but in reality base our political perspectives on deeply held existential postulates. That we, not just you and I, appear at times to be so different, yet underneath it all there may be information and conjectures that by sharing might allow us to further our own deeper speculations on the nature of this reality.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Everything else is plentiful, "out there."

I agree. We don't have anything special. The idea is that whatever the issue is, it would blow our collective minds. These mundane reasons for "No Disclosure" are mundane. They are superficial. It makes no sense. The "government" is about a whole lot more than just secrets. You still have to pay your mortgage.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: ladyinwaiting


The elements that exist on our planet are the same elements that were forged in the furnaces of first and second generation stars. We do know. Saying we don't is silly.

I stand by my assertions: the only thing we have going for us in any sort of unique sense is the things humans have created with their own hands: art, literature, music, religion.

Everything else is plentiful, "out there."

The thread is based on suppositions, postulations, and plain out wondering and thinking aloud, because none of knows factually and with a high degree of certainty what life on other planets is like. Apparently, except for you.


And to boot, you are downright rude about it, and there is no reason to be. It's a lovely thread, with others simply brainstorming. No place for hostilities.
Why I love ATS so much these days. People like you. /sarcasm

Anyway, OP, I did enjoy your thread, and you on your thread.

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

Anyway, OP, I did enjoy your thread, and you on your thread.

Thanks. I really hope I have not come across as arrogant or all-knowing. It's just a guess on my part that tries to account for the behavior we are seeing.

Take a walk with the skinwalkers and try to communicate with the "others" with ritual and sacred plants. Speculation is all well and good but investigation will open the doors of perception. I think it's much, much more complex than the startrek mythos as comfortable and familiar as that is. Quantum paranormal non corporeal entities that can pretend to be what you want. What do you want?


fairies vs demons?

originally posted by: schuyler

originally posted by: ladyinwaiting

Anyway, OP, I did enjoy your thread, and you on your thread.

Thanks. I really hope I have not come across as arrogant or all-knowing. It's just a guess on my part that tries to account for the behavior we are seeing.

Not at all. It was interesting and refreshing! I wonder, wonder too, (although the OP makes it evident that some of us "wonder" and theorize better than others.

"I have no doubt that in reality the future will be vastly more surprising than anything I can imagine. Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."

JBS Haldane

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I track with you completely on SF and the golden age when the writers were more often scientists than merely writers.

Agree we disagree, in general, when it comes to politics. I will segway the two by quoting Heinlein. "When a society requires individuals to carry 'ID', it's time to move on". ...Bah My memory is questionable, call it paraphrased.

On my believes and yours, perhaps over a great dinner and a good bottle of wine we can have at it....otherwise? Nope...

a reply to: schuyler

If I were able to travel to other planets and inhabit them, under the ocean would be greatly preferable. The weather on the surface is dangerous for many reasons and Earth has a very calm atmosphere compared to other planets. It would also provide security from surface dwellers of various types until they developed the technology to be effective at great depths. A civilization that could work at depth and hollow out an underwater mountain for building a base would be very secure and also hidden from optical detection from space. A nice option if you happen to have enemies in space that may be looking for you. With 50% of the sightings being USO's or UFO's going into or coming out of the oceans I think there could very well be bases in the mountains, trenches, etc. especially in the southern oceans. There are well documented military cases that refer to these craft under water and being seen entering or exiting the ocean.

People are dangerous animals. Many can't contain emotional upset and outbursts. I would be a little concerned about their reaction. Certain religious people are likely to totally lose it over disclosure. All governments aren't open like the west generally is. I suppose the US might not want to upset their apple cart because governments like China believe they are the only God.

I don't put it too far out from now when we will have the faster than light technology. According to the former CEO of Lockheed Skunkworks we already do. After his retirement in a speech he gave he said we had the technology to travel to the stars. So, another civilization that may be a million years in advance of our development would certainly appear magic to a primitive understanding of technology. I also happen to believe that those in the know want to use some of this technology and will have to disclose somewhat where it came from. That is just my opinion on the matter.

Damn, now THAT'S an OP.

Speaking for myself only, because as much as I would like to, or not, I can't read minds, I think there is one thing that always bubbles to the surface, and that's the fact that human nature being what it is, people who HAVE power ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, will do damn near ANYTHING in order to keep that power, and acquire MORE.

I think that it's humanity's greatest failure. To have actual power over other people, and the drive to HOLD ON to that power, is a drug that throughout history has probably cost more lives that anything else ever has. We've seen this demonstrated OVER and OVER again repeatedly throughout recorded history.

Knowledge is power. And if the dissemination of that knowledge leads to a loss of power for the "Powers that Be", WHOEVER they may be, they will do ANYTHING to stop the dissemination of that knowledge, and they will do so with EXTREME prejudice.

To quote "Trainspotting", "It's a sad state of affairs, Tommy, and all the fresh air the world won't make any _______ difference"

I don't know the answers, but like many others, there is something inside that drives me to try and find them. Hell, that's what originally brought me here, as is the case for most of you, I imagine.

Anyway, I know, I ramble. I'm a rambler, I suppose.

Great OP, though.

a reply to: nwtrucker

Yeah, that's fine with me trucker. There was a sf book I read as a young teenager, can't recall the title. it was rather dystopian and dealt with an alternate America in which the land was controlled by a religious government similar to 1984 fascist type stuff.

It described the placement of temples of worship and observation in stratigic places in each urban population and basically was draconian in it's methods. As a young teenager it set a political fear in my soul that remained only conceptual until a year or two later in 1964 when the Mormons, in a national building campaign, finished building their 13th temple in the hills over Oakland California overlooking the whole of the North East Bay.

I can say that that book in juxtaposition with the opening of that temple developed into a life long suspicion of mind control masquerading as salvation.

Dolphins, you say?

Thanks for all the fish

a reply to: schuyler

If you think we are really being visited, why do you need the government to tell you what you think is real?

When new species are discovered, does the government have to give disclosure for you to believe.

Disclosure is a straw man argument to provide a reason why ufology cannot produce credibility evidence, and distract from most ufologists are con artists.

How many new species of insects and microbes are discovered every year? But you cannot produce evidence of human sized creatures that eat, poop, have DNA, and fly large aircraft that consume fuel and interact with the environment?

i used to believe in aliens. i dont as much anymore. to me is seems like more government secret "blacK" projects/tech.

what i see likely is a faked/hoaxed alien invasion we are being conditioned for:

Reagan:
www.youtube.com...

Bill Cooper:
www.youtube.com...

Wernher von Braun:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dr. Greer
www.youtube.com...

"Voice of God Weapon"
www.youtube.com...
Voice to Skull Technology [v2k]:
"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hc_4KZ4tcLA"

i am not saying there definitely are not aliens, i want them to be real. but im more inclined have faith in the manipulative tendencies of the powers that be.

recently this channel "crow777 " has had be wondering. especially various odd objects flying across the moon and his captures of "orbs" around chemtrails (can the orbs be man made).
www.youtube.com...

(if there is a disclosure made, and if the disclosure includes or is shortly followed by us being told aliens are violent or its war time, i would be veryyyy suspicious).

If we are being visited by intelligent life from beyond our solar system, it’s obvious they don’t want to reveal themselves. So get over they don’t want to talk to you. Ufologists are so obsessed, I am surprised Intelligence extraterrestrials that choose to remain reclusive don’t file restraining orders. As long as extraterrestrials are here to observe, don’t they have rights to remain reclusive?

a reply to: clfun12345

I believe there is Intelligent life throughout the universe.

But you have to wonder why we have not decoded intelligent alien broadcasts.

The whole problem of covering the physical distance between stars.

a reply to: schuyler

Honestly I'm still boggling with the fact if it's an religious aspect we see today or an extraterrestrial phenomena.

Discovering things that I think know the answer to because it simply can't be any other way by looking at it makes it all more confusing and contradictory to the whole UFO nut's and bolts question at some points.

As learning the fact that going faster then the speed of light or even bend space and time has several issues with our physical and physiological state of being undergoing such a trip and even arrive there alive boggles my mind in saying that it actually can't be done other than losing the body to make the trip that fast to other starsystems.

At that point I began to think and with statements from TTSA that it had no signature and no acoustic reference and reminding me of the words George Napp told about what he knew from the skinwalker ranch and things I experienced myself in both the realms of the unknown that defy all logic what I've learned here on earth and only read or saw in some sci-fi movie or some creepy horror movie where invisible entities were emerging out of nowhere.

Sometimes I think of what I know or have seen ,how is it possible that I'm not losing my mind and only to have a bad hair day once and awhile that makes me crumpy.

Still I hope and want to believe there is a extraterrestrial phenomena that's way beyond our technology.

Good thread man and its something I surely thought about many times.

Could it be possible that biological life is stuck on planets and that there's a form of life thats stuck in space and can only be on planets for a short period of time due to different physiological states of being ?

But what's the truth in it all still remains out off our sights?

My first post here.Sorry for my English,I am not a native speaker.I just wanna say that the UFO community might be wrong about a lot of fundamental things regarding "Disclosure".

First,most people in the community assume that is it up to human power structures to decide when and how to do Disclosure.I am not so sure that is the case.I think that this topic could not have been kept classified for all this time without direct or indirect cooperation from the Phenomenon itself.Think about it,if a UFO landed in the middle of a packed football stadium there is nothing that the UFO security people could do to to keep this under wraps.But of course the UFOs don't do that.They keep a low,but interestingly,not invisible profile,always walking that fine line betwwen the real and the deniable.Does this mean that "They" are ok with the status quo?Do they enforce it?This reminds me of what Barack Obama once said:"THEY exercise strict control over us."A bad joke or a terryfing truth?If the UFO phenomenon is real,and I am 90% convinced that it is,my bet is on the latter.

Second.For 70 years the UFO community has virulently blamed the Government for UFO secrecy.Is that still true these days?According to some researchers and alleged whistleblowers that is no longer the case.They say that the UFO subject is no longer controlled by the Government,Military or Intelligence community.They say that they are almost as much in the dark about what is going on as we are.According to them the UFO topic is being handled by an invisible,global corporate colossus,funded and controlled by a Bilderberg-like group.So we may have been barking for Disclosure at the wrong tree.

And third.When the word Disclosure pops up most folks don't realize that there can be more than one type of disclosure.You can have full disclosure,gradual disclosure,partial disclosure,unacknowledged disclosure.We keep asking for disclosure and maybe,just maybe they've been giving it to us all this time,but not in the way that we expected it.My take is that we've been having a gradual disclosure from both "teams" for decades.Just my two nickles.I could be totally wrong.

a reply to: schuyler

Disclosure would make the 50s generation lose their minds. Not us.

We arent retarded. Go ahead I say. It will help.

Criminals are in charge. They would lose power. This is why its not done. Simple.

We arent hinged to religion. Arent scared of government being turned on its head. We arent worried about having to rewrite our history books. We know they are wrong.

Only criminals in power would lose.

a reply to: Tinel

econd.For 70 years the UFO community has virulently blamed the Government for UFO secrecy.Is that still true these days?According to some researchers and alleged whistleblowers that is no longer the case.

I think that the UFO community is very much divided on what the government knows, suspects or withholds, but I think nearly all with at least a passing interest in the phenomenon have had to conclude that the government is sitting on quite the body of images, gun footage, radar records, video captures and various sensor tracks that have (and still are) being withheld.

There are some threads on it here on ATS, and various blogs and researchers have tried (sometimes for years) to get hold of information regarding the data that governments are reported (by witnesses) to have either whisked away (like log books and radar tapes) or forwarded "somewhere". These have never been published.

To take one example at random, NORAD has for years denied any record or tracks of UFOs in their records. So, for this to be true the UAP/UFO/unknowns are either not visible to NORAD (directly contradicted by the newly released Nimitz case where they were tracked on radar for "days") or they are withholding the information while denying its existence.

The Nimitz case (of AATIP fame) is also a good example. We know there HAS to be more video and radar tracks. And where are they? The navy and the DOD is not even giving as much as a comment...

So, to sum up, I think there can be little doubt governments (at least the government of the United States) are withholding information. Which, as addressed in this thread, begs the question "why?"

Congrats on your first post, btw :-D
A member since 2010 and now - silent no more !
Welcome to the discussion...