Student walkouts scheduled all over US

a reply to: JAGStorm

I am for and understand civil disobedience and know for some things it does work. I'm not sure this is one of them. So the kids protest...

I'm pretty sure most of us support the right to protest. The problem is that this walkout isn't really a protest -- not when the schools (unions) are promoting and funding said walkout. For those staying on campus, it's an assembly. For those being bussed off campus, it's a field trip. This isn't a protest in any sense of the word. It's a political propaganda stunt exploiting children and taxpayers, and giving a big fat middle finger to parents.

I'm just sad that these kids were hijacked. They had a chance to enact real change here. They could have fostered the discussion that MUST happen in order to try to fix this problem. With the only discussion to be had, being a myopic view limited to "gunz", the rest of the factors are always shelved.

Mental Health, Drugs, parenting, family structure, lack of moral compass.

But more gun laws will surely make the crazy killers think twice.

Just sad.

a reply to: Bhadhidar

First off, I fully support this national effort among kids to address an issue that they have recognized as directly affecting their lives. Perhaps it’s related to the fact that I can remember how real action to end the war in Vietnam did not gain traction until young people (all of them older than me!) took to the nation’s streets in protest of the ongoing war.

Then, with all due respect, you are supporting their right to protest and speak out for the wrong reasons. The student protests did absolutely nothing to end the war. In fact, the war did not end until 1975. It was Nixon who began the ending of US involvement in the war, and he was elected in '72. As far as the protests:

Anti-war marches and other protests, such as the ones organized by Students for a Democratic Society (SDS), attracted a widening base of support over the next three years, peaking in early 1968...

Vietnam War Protests

And, in fact and in deed, those protests did not end well:

In May 1970, students protesting the bombing of Cambodia by United States military forces, clashed with Ohio National Guardsmen on the Kent State University campus. When the Guardsmen shot and killed four students on May 4, the Kent State Shootings became the focal point of a nation deeply divided by the Vietnam War.

Kent State Shootings

Those protests had no demonstrable effect on the war -- or ending it.

If we, the adults, really want it to.

The only thing is, I don’t think we adults want it to work.

Those are some mighty big words there... essentially accusing people of wanting children to die at the hands of mass murderers. Because if we don't want it to "work" then we must -- by definition -- want children to be slaughtered in cold blood. I bet that was real fun to say! I want to play too!!! Let's see...

We should arm all adults in every school and actually give them a fighting chance with equal and proportionate force. It certainly won’t stop the killing altogether.

But it would be a start. It could have an immediate impact in the number of kids like themselves who are killed for no other reason than the fact that they were in class on a particular day, at a particular time. Unlike further “studies” and “programs” and research into “mental health”, which might have an effect sometime in the future, this could work Now.

If we, the adults, really want it to.

The only thing is, I don’t think we adults want it to work.

Wheeee! See how easy that was??? Isn't it fun being accused of wanting to let children die???

I have an idea... pretty extreme and outrageous... but maybe we could just put on our big girl panties/big boy undies and actually understand that we cannot stop bad people from doing bad things, and that there are no perfect answers or solutions, and there is no ONE solution. So instead of calling each other names to puff up our own pathetic egos, how about we discuss and debate all of our options -- with all of their inherent advantages and disadvantages -- with reason and respect???

Pretty crazy, right?

originally posted by: network dude
I'm just sad that these kids were hijacked. They had a chance to enact real change here. They could have fostered the discussion that MUST happen in order to try to fix this problem. With the only discussion to be had, being a myopic view limited to "gunz", the rest of the factors are always shelved.

Mental Health, Drugs, parenting, family structure, lack of moral compass.

But more gun laws will surely make the crazy killers think twice.

Just sad.

I'm not a fan of gun control, as I think it doesn't address the real problems, but I think it is a bit disingenuous to say they could have fostered a discussion when people have been trying for a long time to have these sorts of debates in order to hash the issue out.

What many people don't seem to understand is that it is hard to have that discussion, even more so for the pro-2nd advocates, when you have the most vocal of one side of the discussion that does nothing but scream "shall not infringe".

It is those sorts that make it difficult for the rest of us to get together and talk reasonable about these issues. Lord knows it does nothing to educate the younger generations about our rights and why they exist. They just see angry idiots shouting "shall not infringe".

a reply to: JAGStorm

I have a feeling as with most kids, their views on the world will drastically change within a decade

Is that the estimate on indoctrination time?

a reply to: DBCowboy

They are not protesting the second ammendment.
They just want to be safe. In school. In the movie theater. In the mall. At a concert. Standing on a street corner.
Why are you a slave to an industry who just wants your money buying their products no matter how unnecessary the product is?
Like a congressman said last month.
If you need 35 shots to take down a deer you really should find another hobby. Your hunting skills suck.
Semi automatic weapons have no place in society.

originally posted by: Willtell
Don’t you folks give a damn about your own children?

Oh dear... another one essentially accusing other people of wanting children to die... of wanting their own children to die. Was that fun???

I want to play too. But I'm looking at those who made our kids fish in a barrel with no opportunity to be protected and defended with equal and proportionate force, knowing damn well that no law in the world is going to stop someone hellbent on mass carnage and murder... people who know damn well that when you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns...

DON'T YOU GIVE A DAMN ABOUT OUR CHILDREN???

See how that works? Of course you do... and you knew it already. Pretty darn sad, Willtell. Do you really and truly give a damn? Or is this just an opportunity to score cheap political points?

a reply to: introvert

Because when the Pro2A folks mention that maybe we could do stuff like actually lock the school doors, or take meaningful steps to address the bullying that drives the majority of these cases, it gets batted down and dismissed.

Why can't we look at other solutions first, since more degradation of rights in the past hasn't achieved the stated goal yet?

a reply to: Boadicea

So we're ok protecting the life of a potential child who is not yet born with legislation but screw the ones who are living and breathing until a bullet takes their life.
I guess some "life" has more rights than other life.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Because when the Pro2A folks mention that maybe we could do stuff like actually lock the school doors

They already do that. They've been doing that since I was in high school.

or take meaningful steps to address the bullying that drives the majority of these cases, it gets batted down and dismissed.

They've been doing that as well.

even the younger generation has given up. then you know its bad. maybe the students and the teachers can strike together?

a reply to: burdman30ott6

I'm not sure where you are but here there have been several "threats" which have suspended walkouts,
and a report of a person with a gun here.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
www.nbcnews.com...

I have very mixed feelings about all the student walkouts scheduled for tomorrow. I am for and understand civil disobedience and know for some things it does work. I'm not sure this is one of them. So the kids protest, I seriously doubt that will have a big impact on current gun owners.

In my opinion the best way for these kids to protest is to stay in school, get an education, vote, run for offices and make the change they want to see happen. I think it is also naive to think this is just a gun issue, there is so much more to what is happening. Bullying, mental illness, pharmaceuticals, drugs, school security, family dynamic, media sensationalism, etc etc.

I have a feeling as with most kids, their views on the world will drastically change within a decade.

This is a huge waste of time, and most kids are probably just looking to get out of school. This/These protest(s) will solve nothing and will not change one mentally deranged mind. If someone wants to shoot a school, they aren't gonna change their mind. If anything, this will make them want to do it more.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Consider the generation doing this.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
a reply to: JAGStorm

Unfortunately the Liberals that have taken over our educational system don't think so.

It was bush jr who used social security money to pay for an illagitimate war. Its republicans who are cutting programs to pay for useless crap. Its liberals who despite your vsceral for..are more in tune with what america needs.

Are you guys really crying about "bullies?"

Jesus Christ, kind of like the GOP candidate who referred to a Parkland school shooter survivor as a "lesbian skinhead?"

That's not bullying - at all. Neither is referring to them as "bold-faced liars."

Oh - and the pussy deleted his tweets. Kind of reminds me of someone....

originally posted by: scraedtosleep
a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Plus if they do cause change in gun laws ( I hope not) they will be learning a most valuable lesson.

The lesson that our government works for us , and that the voice of the people has power.

I know a lot of adults today that could stand to learn that lesson.

It doesn't matter what they change. There are still killers out there that will not hesitate to kill people with a gun in these schools.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Because when the Pro2A folks mention that maybe we could do stuff like actually lock the school doors

They already do that. They've been doing that since I was in high school.

Then how do all these shooters gain access to these schools?

or take meaningful steps to address the bullying that drives the majority of these cases, it gets batted down and dismissed.

They've been doing that as well.

Action is not the same as effective action.

Just sayin'. In the case of Parkland, their "action" involved just kicking him out of school for assault with a deadly weapon.

How many other school districts involved in shootings over the last few years had policies similar to Parkland?

It really does feel like a broken record to keep pointing out that we have laws that are wholly unenforced (in this case, to an appalling degree) while trying to create new laws.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

When you were a teenager, just like all teenager's, you were mostly influenced by peer pressure and other outside influences like pop culture and teachers. It's no different now and it's just reality.

To some degree, no more or less than a 50 year old turning on FOX news - the difference is some teens, just as some adults, are able to reach their own conclusions.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
You think old people are less informed and less wise than kids going through puberty? Kids believe that, adults do not.

I would counter that a kid would actually believe that old always === wise, that's simply not the case.
Life experiences lead to wisdom, not age. I'd bet the lot on an 18 year old that's traveled the world over VS a 50 year old who hasn't stepped out of the town he was born in.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
These kids are being used as political puppets, but as I said, I'm OK with them playing along. When they get older they will form their own opinions, but for now at that age, they are still vulnerable to being manipulated by adults.

Age plays no role in manipulation - see all the old people that tune in to the likes of people such as Alex Jones.

You only believe these kids are political puppets because you don't agree with them. A few days ago I read a thread where some kid quit his job because they stopped selling guns to his age group - I do recall a very real different types of responses in that thread.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
The problem here is kids being used for things they won't understand for years.

There are teenagers out their writing software that's beyond the comprehension of a lot of old people, they will never get it - its not your place to assume that they cannot understand, again, you only feel this way because they disagree with your opinion.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Because when the Pro2A folks mention that maybe we could do stuff like actually lock the school doors

They already do that. They've been doing that since I was in high school.

or take meaningful steps to address the bullying that drives the majority of these cases, it gets batted down and dismissed.

They've been doing that as well.

Just sayin'. In the case of Parkland, their "action" involved just kicking him out of school for assault with a deadly weapon.

How many other school districts involved in shootings over the last few years had policies similar to Parkland?

It really does feel like a broken record to keep pointing out that we have laws that are wholly unenforced (in this case, to an appalling degree) while trying to create new laws.

It is a broken record, we keep pointing out that folks are not enforcing the law... they keep saying we need more laws.

If we don't enforce whats on the books, then why should we think a new law is magically going to be enforced.