God created Satan

didn't they eat from the tree of knowledge, meaning they gained knowledge and started questioning things? not the tree of sex?

another thought, could this be related to man's first invention?

Originally posted by cjm273
God created adam and eve. Because of the womans seduction the man fell to satans plan. Thus all humans are now in bondage and our eyes are open to all manners of flesh, pleasures , sin, and suffering.

Interesting. It sounds just like Adam's claim. Let me demo please:

After God finds Adam and Eve, they're busted! Genesis 3:12:
"The man said, 'The woman YOU put here with me - she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.'"

How brave and responsible of you Adam! Blame God for making woman. Nice...

I know what you mean, but seems to imply Adam was innocent of the whole thing. Otherwise I can agree with your point cjm273.


[edit on 28-2-2005 by saint4God]

The 144,000 people everyone is referring to are the chosen ones to be resurrected to live in the Kingdom of God-where Jesus will have full reign-after the End Times Tribulation. The survivors of the Tribulation will be governed by said Kingdom.

I haven't read this thread yet, just saw the title, and thought I'd add (if I can). It probably has already been stated, but I may as well do it anyway... especially seeing what the last two posts were... (talk about staying on subject!)

Yes, God DID create Satan/Lucifer/whatever he was called. You can go to any number of other threads and see the same debate over and over, but to sum up...

There will be those who will more then likely say that God would never have created such a beast, and I beg to differ. The proof is all right there in your bible.

Lucifer was the first of the angels. He thought himself higher then the others, closer onto the level of God, right?



Lucifer decided to become as God, convinced a few other angels to join him... how?

This is where the real question lies, I would think... IF free-will was God's gift to mankind, how was it possible for Lucifer to rebel? That was a free action, was it not? Unless, of course, you want to go the route that states God told him too... but then, doesn't that kind of change the whole tempting of Jesus bit? After all, if God wanted Lucifer to rebel, then it must stand to reason that God told Lucifer to tempt Jesus...

(Let's not even mention Job... I mean, God taking a bet from Satan? Come on! Why?)

Now, Lucifer HAD to have had free-will. How come? He had the ability to convince a few hundred other angels to his cause... which would also make the assumption that Lucifer had equal power to God, in order to lead other angels, or else why would they? Unless God wanted them to turn, too.

Or God isn't as omnipotent as one is led to believe. Maybe God created these angels NOT KNOWING that they were rebelious... a quick look at the Book of Enoch pretty much explains that, since the angels rebelled not once but TWICE.

Then there's the whole duality thing. Light and dark, good and evil, can't have one without the other. God created Satan, God needs Satan.

*gasp*

Tis true!

I mean, think about it for a minute. If there was no Satan, no Hell or damnation... would people try to be good? Doubtful. We are sad creatures, always trying to find the quickest way, the most gainful path. If there was no chance of ever going to Hell, would we try to do good?

God needs Satan.

Yin yan.

Lucifer convinced other angels to follow him. Lucifer turned their attention away from God into his light. Lucifer has complete and total control over the Earth ("and he shall have domain over the world"). Lucifer could very well be God's equal... matches other duelistic mythologies, why not?

No matter how you look at it, Lucifer having free-will or God commanding and ordering him, God created him. After all, evil cannot create, right? *snicker* God created Lucifer to fit a purpose.



Which also explains Hitler, Stalin, and soothsayer.

Originally posted by nightbreid
The 144,000 people everyone is referring to are the chosen ones to be resurrected to live in the Kingdom of God-where Jesus will have full reign-after the End Times Tribulation. The survivors of the Tribulation will be governed by said Kingdom.

If we're referring to Revelations 7, it says this is the number of people 'sealed' announcing this change. For those who believe only 144,000 are going to heaven, I'll have to disagree by referring to the verse that follows immediately on Revelations 7:9 -

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people, and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lam. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."

What are they doing? Read on, it gets better! Now to me, 'multitude that no one could count' is a bigger number than 144,000 last time I checked my math book.


[edit on 1-3-2005 by saint4God]

Gods reward to you is being the real deal. It isnt about heaven, and it isnt about hell. Its about harmony, love, and selflessness despite your conidtion.

Many people give to charities, go to church, and practice acts like turning in homework that allows them to think they are righteous and worthy.

The Lords Gifts are silent, as I have now come to an understanding with him myself. Give, do not judge, love regardless, forgive all, hate none, do not enslave, oppress, or impede anothers life in persuit of your own.

The people who have heard me speak know that what I say is true,
The people of Seattle have heard the first words of God through man.
Things I have not known. Things I did not know. From physics, to attrocities against man, it is real. God gives when you pass the finish line if you do it while your still alive. Im living proof.

So here are some facts....There is no hell. There is no Satan.
Its either to the light, or to the void.

Those that have heard me, I encourage you to email me as this was last nights communication.

To share with you this Gift, God has shared with the things that I find most pleasing. Ill leave it at that. My signature line says the rest.

We have to turn around the greedy concepts of currency in the world and the outrageous self gain that allows for oppression and depression of people. Open your hearts, as well as your eyes. The books of the bible are mans account, and are not accurate. Truth is the sword that will right what was wrong. God has given me that scalple. To see what is not seen.
Perpetrators of 911,,,,, JFK, Crimes against children, and all else..Know that there is a silver hand on earth now. Day by day. Change is in the wind.

Peace

You Christians have completely perverted the view of Satan. Before you came around, the view in Judaism was that Satan was a temptor, all under the permission and guidance of God.

Go read it for yourself if you don't believe me.

Silly Christians!

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Of course God created Satan, but God is not Satan, as some moron suggested a bit earlier. I suggest instead that he read the Bible and talk less about subjects of which he knows little.

God of course allowed his creation to exercise free will, but punished the angels as well.

O' spitter of scripture (paraphrased..), o' bearer of knowledge (are you satan too?), can I be the moron you're talking about? Pretty please? Being opposed to you would be a great honor. You can tell a lot by a man's enemies, and I would be honored if you'd be my enemy. I really hope you'll consider it.

God is Satan. God is our collectively employed pet name used to describe positive; birth. Satan is the enemy of God, our pet name for chaos and death in the universe. They are metaphysical terms. The bible was an instructional pamphlet for children, and you're taking it literally.

Your religion was a control mechanism erected around one of the ancient mysteries, designed to trap, confuse, and kill the insects that wandered too close to the light without being prepared. This is the part where I get my can of RAID and you squeal like a new fish at Folsom.



You could have been a force to reckon with in the universe, but you took the foolish thing literally. You could have been the master of your domain, the architect of your future, but you took it literally! Shame, shame.

You know what tickles me the mostest mostest? The fact that only christians burn in hell!
ROFL

If that's not a knee slapper..well hell, I guess there's no such thing.

Try putting some effort in and collect the bible books that have been denied you (perhaps justifiably, sheesh). This time try reading it (it will take a while - and you can't have someone sum it up for you like in Sunday school) with a fresh mind. I hear meditation works well, but since you're kind of aggro, you might have more luck with a frontal lobotomy or EST.

Cheers mate. Or is it check? I look forward to your response.

The angels were not made with free will. The greatest among them took his freedom, through will alone. He brought that freedom to the other angels, and then went on to free mankind, when it was all done God had not just created life, and death, the universe (nestled within it; our tiny world), and mankind, but also will, inteligence, power, light, and darkness. It's a metaphor to nudge you along the path of spiritual evolution. It could have been a stick instead of a carrot, but what would be the point in beating a donkey you're trying to help?

If you haven't grasped that yet, well, something's probably grasped you. Condolences.

On the whole, and this for everyone, the bible is probably a lot more pages than you think. There are many, many people who can inform you to various degrees, most of them lived many hundreds of years ago unfortunately. If you really care about the meaning behind the bedtime story, at least read all the chapters.

My idol is Simeon Stylites. Was that sarcasm or not..you tell me. Guess the right answer, get a plush toy.

Originally posted by supercheetah
You Christians have completely perverted the view of Satan. Before you came around, the view in Judaism was that Satan was a temptor, all under the permission and guidance of God.Silly Christians!

It is interesting watching how the scriptures are read and interpreted to suit their already preconceived notion, when no such things actually exist.

Despite the claim by the ordained one and his claim of theological study, he obviously does not understand references to the king of Babylon and Tyre. Nowhere in the OT will we find references to the devil/satan/lucifer in a hell, or the context within which Christians fully subscribe. That is all Christian philosophy, created and planted by those who perverted the OT, and indoctrinated into maleable young minds to scare the living devil out of them.

Whatever they think they witness, dream or percieve, is merely their own little demon thoughts playing tricks on them, and probably goes hand in hand with the desire to blame anyone or anything other than themslves for their personal woes.

WyrdeOne, LMMFAO!!!

Thanks, potna, I needed a good laugh. I wonder what kind of a response you're gonna get. Please come back to that with something as funny as your last post.

"Only Christians burn in hell." It's funny cause it's true.

Its the translation that everone gets hung up on, and the greater focus should be the context of what is being said.

I agree on the Bible being for people being a starter guide. But thats where it ends.

But as far as God creating Satan, lets really think about that for a second.
Could you imagine for one second if Satan got out of hand. overtook heaven? And who would ultimately discern wrong and right? The Satan image is wrong. Non Existent. A product of mans greatest fears.
The Satan image is false, and by not acknowledging them at all, guess what, theres nothing left.

So lets try as a culture to put dark images of Satan to bed, the beast, and all the other dark concepts and move ahead to a brighter world.


Peace

[edit on 3-3-2005 by HIFIGUY]

On a side note...

One of my favorite songs is "Satan" by Orbital. Does that mean that I'm going to hell? Oh wait, only Christians go to hell...

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
God is Satan. They are two sides of the same coin. Just as every man is his own God and his own Devil, so God is also.

For God to destroy Satan would be suicide. There are plenty of examples of a wicked, vengeful, wrathful God in the OT. There are for comparison plenty of instances of the loving, 'humane' God. The only answer is that they're inseperable.

I'm mostly aethiest (so correct me if I'm wrong), but wasn't the portrayal of a loving God the result of Martin Luther? I was under the impression that everyone had feared Judgment Day and such during the "rule" of the Catholic Church and the Pope in Rome? It wasn't until Martin Luther came forth and stressed the image of a loving God did such a portrayal come to be.

There have been many portrayals of God, both sides of the coin, all throughout history. Martin Luther is, by historical standards, a very recent example of a schism. There were many, many, many before, and certainly there are some waiting in the wings now.

There are some very interesting texts about the nature of God, and not surprisingly the appear as flurries of alternative activity, followed by persecution on a grand scale, long periods of idealogical silence, rinse and repeat.

I suggest you read the suppressed books of the bible (put aside plenty of time), and some of the teachings of the Desert Fathers. They were a much older 'revival' of ancient ideas about God, similarly, they took off in popularity after a long period of dogmatic theologian sponsored tyrrany. They're my personal favorite, some of the stuff that guys like the Abbas Moses came up with..I mean wow!

The concept of a god centered in duality is as old as religion. Duality is the nature of EVERY LIVING THING, not to mention all the natural processes that surround us. All laws work in perfectly balanced pairs, all animals have predation and prey. Day, night, wax, wane. The makers mark is everywhere you look. To ignore it in favor of blood and fire is, well, foolish.

The problem with Christianity and organized religion in general; he who controls the present controls the past. The teachings of great philosophers were kept from the people for millenia, all because the rich and powerful wanted to stay that way. Same story, different century.

Two quick reccomendations for the stew pot:

If you're in the mood for a bit of humor, read about Diogenes 'socrates gone mad.'

If you're more interested in meat, try reading up on early ascetics. In the immortal words of Edward Gibbon: "...the Ascetics, who obeyed and abused the rigid precepts of the Gospel, were inspired by the savage enthusiasm which represents man as a criminal and God as a tyrant. They seriously renounced the business and the pleasures of the age; abjured the use of wine, of flesh and of marriage; chastised their body, mortified their affections, and embraced a life of misery, as the price of eternal happiness."

This was taking place before the end of the first century. In less than a hundred years the entire face of religon changed...

It would do so many times more, and I think it's probably one of the most fascinating courses of study on earth. Enjoy your journey. Be sure to tell us what you think of the desert fathers.

A final quote, from 'a saintly man': "The wood of the cross that now breaks your back once grew in the soil of your heart."

Knowing and believing are two different things. Or more, two different levels of awareness. I won't write to you all and say I know, because I won't until I meet Him. But I do believe.

All I can say is what I witness and in turn... my testimony. Alot of the Truth is mentioned by alot of people in a sentence, paragraph, or even a word. Then it veers to the left or twists to another turn, like standing with your nose at the corner of a mirror. The perception of the viewer is seeing a full face, when in reality, the viewer is only seeing 1/2 a face of REAL flesh. So I do see truth in alot of your statements to me. I'm not claiming you must believe me, for it IS in yourSELF the ultimate TRUTH. Most have different layers of truth. Until that's found by yourSELF(the next layer of your truth) to be peeled off. Then perhaps you may find a greater truth again. Need I say that you may peel off the newfound untruth to a new higher truth or put on more layers of untruth. Awareness or ignorance. Deliberate or not ,still will take you to one of the next levels of one of the duality. I would like to think we'll sit back and laugh in the end, how petty and ridiculous we can become. All enjoying the vastness of Truth.
Thank God it's not an onion.

www.webcom.com...
This is a letter someone wrote to his niece, who was of gnostic influence explaining in good detail some things. It's short and simple too! Thank you Jesus!

[edit on 3-4-05 by pacman]