Vaccines, Autism and Glyphosate

I was recently involved in a thread on ATS regarding mandatory vaccines, the unfounded and often narrow minded responses have driven me to do something I rarely do and that is make a thread.

For all the anti vaxxers out there, this is not an anti vax thread neither is it a pro vax thread. This is a conversation, a discussion about what might be going wrong with our children. Our children are more important than your beliefs and I would ask you all to put those beliefs aside and read the information I will try to present.

Before I get started you should know my background is in Genetics and Genetic engineering and I have had a number of years involved in vaccine development albeit DNA vaccines (something we don't inject into children). I was a research scientist for the Australian government for 10-12 years.

I started reading the literature on Autism after a friends child suffered what can only be described as a sudden and "unexplained' journey into severe autism sixteen hours after a routine dTap vaccination. I didn't think for a minute the vaccine was the cause but I did think that the immune response the vaccine generated may have triggered the event, and so perhaps there was a way to reverse it.

It appears that there is a strong genetic link to autism, but how did this suddenly occur? We are in an autism epidemic that has sprung up out of nowhere and genetics doesn't work like that. If you find genetic markers for a disease it really only tells you that you have a predisposition for that disease and often (not always) environmental factors can trigger it (I am keeping this as simple as I can). So logic dictates something environmental must have changed in the last 10-15 years to trigger susceptible genotypes.

So I went looking for the physiological traits that are seen in the majority of Autism cases, low and behold we find that they share a couple of common traits. Firstly we see a hyperactive immune response in the brain, cells called microglial cell exhibit an almost perpetual state of activity. These cells should only activate when a pathogen or foreign substance is detected. They are responsible for inflammation, and indeed inflammation is thought to be a leading cause of autism.

Now these cells are part of the innate immune system which directly effects the adaptive arm of our immune system. Vaccine adjuvants often target this innate arm of the immune response. Adjuvants are the cocktail of chemicals and other things we use to invoke a strong immune response to the antigens found in vaccines.

So lets take a moment shall we.... Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement.

So we have an immune disorder in the brain of young children which causes autism, we have children being exposed to immune stimulating adjuvants and yet nobody can see a link, why is that? Well because unvaccinated children get autism too, unfortunately the science behind these studies is quite poor and lacking in detail. So why would this be the case and why would cases of autism be exploding now when we have been vaccinating for generations?

I then stumbled across an article about glyphosate and the effects it has on the gut flora of mice, it appears to have a highly disruptive effect on the gut microbiota. This in turn effects the blood brain barrier permeability, allowing unwanted molecules to cross. The research suggests this gut imbalance is passed from mother to child. Is the anecdotal evidence of vaccines causing autism actually a combination of a defective blood brain barrier and over stimulation of the innate pathway? Is this why some cases of autism are linked to viral infections and the immune response generated?

I could go on for pages but I will leave it there with a number of links if you care to read the science and draw your own conclusions.

Please be aware, vaccines have saved millions of lives and our world would be a very different place without them, and conversely please consider those who choose not to vaccinate may be justified in some way. If you can all understand its about the children and the coming generations, not our ego's and blind beliefs. For those of you who tell me there is no evidence, just remember science starts with theory....

Thank you

www.nature.com...

Here we report results from a large-scale RNA sequencing effort, utilizing region-matched autism and control brains to identify neuronal and microglial genes robustly dysregulated in autism cortical brain. Remarkably, we note that a gene expression module corresponding to M2-activation states in microglia is negatively correlated with a differentially expressed neuronal module, implicating dysregulated microglial responses in concert with altered neuronal activity-dependent genes in autism brains.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

TextIn recent years, many studies indicate that children with an autism spectrum disorder (ASD) diagnosis have brain pathology suggestive of ongoing neuroinflammation or encephalitis in different regions of their brains. Evidence of neuroinflammation or encephalitis in ASD includes: microglial and astrocytic activation, a unique and elevated proinflammatory profile of cytokines, and aberrant expression of nuclear factor kappa-light-chain-enhancer of activated B cells.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

TextThere are many different ways of getting autism, but we found that they all have the same downstream effect," says Prof. Dan Arking regarding his research team's finding that brains affected by autism share a pattern of inflammation as a result of increased immune responses.

stm.sciencemag.org...

Pivotal to brain development and function is an intact blood-brain barrier (BBB), which acts as a gatekeeper to control the passage and exchange of molecules and nutrients between the circulatory system and the brain parenchyma. The BBB also ensures homeostasis of the central nervous system (CNS). We report that germ-free mice, beginning with intrauterine life, displayed increased BBB permeability compared to pathogen-free mice with a normal gut flora. The increased BBB permeability was maintained in germ-free mice after birth and during adulthood and was associated with reduced expression of the tight junction proteins occludin and claudin-5, which are known to regulate barrier function in endothelial tissues. Exposure of germ-free adult mice to a pathogen-free gut microbiota decreased BBB permeability and up-regulated the expression of tight junction proteins. Our results suggest that gut microbiota–BBB communication is initiated during gestation and propagated throughout life.

a reply to: Charlyboy

Thank you for doing this thread Charlyboy!

I read through the thread that inspired this one and honestly your voice of reason on this subject is commendable and apparently hard for any in the pro-vaccine camp to debate. I believe I did not see any responses to your well rounded questions.

I have come around to the idea that vaccines can be effective but I question many things about the current schedule, the ingredients in the vaccines, and I have a distrust of Big Pharma, for multiple ethical violations we have seen from the industry.

The fact that vaccines cause encephalitis has always been a point that made me believe there is something to the rise of mysterious auto-immune disease and autism and a host of new problems we are dealing with. Glyphosate being found in breast milk along with other pesticides like Atrazine are highly detrimental.

Excellent information found here!!

a reply to: Charlyboy

Maybe blaming vaccines is cover for the increasing toxins in the environment.

Just saw a documentary on RT about DOW and the Dioxin in the environment around their Michigan factory....

They dumped waste into the local river for decades, with impunity and legal immunity.

They continue to cover it up to this day...

RT

a reply to: Charlyboy

Would you consider the broadening of the Autism Spectrum Disorder description and increased training in identifying and diagnosing has been a factor in the rapid growth in the percentage of children and adults diagnosed with it now? It's been inferred, but not implicitly stated, as a large contributor to the increasingly common diagnoses. This was the gist of a conversation I recently had with a psychiatrist friend of mine who's been practicing for nearly 30 years.

I'm not discounting the actual physiological and organic differences or findings. I'm just wondering about the increasing numbers.

a reply to: intrptr

That may very well be the case but without thorough investigation we won't be sure at all. The vaccine debate is worth having, anything that stimulates constructive thought is worth it. There will probably be a complex environmental and genetic component to this unfortunate epidemic.

a reply to: pfishy

Certainly this is a factor yes, the autism spectrum is a fairly new concept, but the trend of diagnosis is still increasing. I think we have a situation where both improved clinical observation/diagnosis and increasing prevalence occur.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Thank you, I really do tire of the language both camps use and their dogmatic approach. I have heard some terribly ignorant statements from seemingly intelligent people on this topic. It need to be debated and it should be possible to do that without all the ego and emotion involved.

a reply to: elementalgrove

Big Pharma like any organisation is profit driven, they also have to follow strict guidelines and protocol when developing drugs for human use. They do some amazing work but when money is the driving factor the intent is wrong and that is where the rot starts.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: elementalgrove

Thank you, I really do tire of the language both camps use and their dogmatic approach. I have heard some terribly ignorant statements from seemingly intelligent people on this topic. It need to be debated and it should be possible to do that without all the ego and emotion involved.

You have not even mentioned the endocrine disrupting chemicals and neuro-toxins found in just about every product. From BPA/Phtalates right on over to Aspartame, food dyes, corn syrup.

I have always found it some what hypercritical for pro-vacciners to scream at me about my concerns around vaccines while they buy products containing the above for their young ones.

Ultimately we should focus on common ground, concern for children and providing them a healthy life. The major industries do not seem to be on that level.

a reply to: elementalgrove

To be honest I doubt many folk will give this thread the time of day let alone including that stuff. I wanted to keep it simple and give both sides of the aisle something to think about. I have noticed during open conversations with peers about this subject matter that most of them shut down completely due to media and poor science. The fact is we don't know what causes Autism and vaccines and toxins may well be implicated.

The fact is we don't know what causes Autism and vaccines and toxins may well be implicated.

This is a point I have tried to get across to people, you can not rule it out. The schedule changed in 1990 and increased to a staggering level of shots, at such a critical age of development, mirroring this change is a drastic increase in Autism.

The stories of parents who watched their child change after a vaccine is also compelling evidence in my view. Parents of injured children are the force behind the anti-vaccine movement.

I think this may very well be the first thread with the words Vaccines/Autism in the title that does not get going. You have laid out a compelling case for critical analysis and I hope that you are networking in the real world. It is disheartening to hear that your peers have such a closed mind, it is the antithesis of the entire method!

We need to have people of your stature fighting this fight!

a reply to: Charlyboy

Agreed. The rate of ASD diagnoses is very probably due to both. But the widened definition of the spectrum and symptoms actually puts me within it to some degree now, whereas it didn't in the 80s and 90s. I also have 2 cpisins who are well within it. One is a relatively high functioning autistic, but is incapable of living independently. The other lives on her own, has a degree in computer science, and has a textbook case of Asperger's Syndrome. Oh, they are also both blind from birth, due to Leber's Amaurosis. Which also carries the potential for mental issues, from what I understand.
Both were diagnosed on the spectrum at 5 or so years old, and would have been in the 80s as well.

The broadened definition is now including very subtle symptoms that traditionally would have been insignificant at the "mild" and, though.

a reply to: pfishy

And that my friend is the madness of medicine, the bell shaped curve we are all supposed to fit into keeps getting narrower.

We have a hugely complicated society and a rapidly degrading environment.

Sorry to hear about your cousins

No doubt I would be on the Aspergers spectrum if I cared to check

a reply to: elementalgrove

Anytime I have posted on a vaccine thread my comments get ignored and people just throw insults at each other. In science you need to pick your battles but I have engaging conversations with high level folk still, problem is nobody wants to think vaccines might cause harm and the media has done the same to the vaccine conversation as it has to the climate change debate.

a reply to: Charlyboy

No need to be sorry for my cousin's. They're actually 2 of the generally happiest people I've ever known.
And given the recent seeming link to immunological disfunction in the brain and autism, I don't doubt environmental factors have an impact. It's like the rise in asthma, Crohn's disease, etc.
People go out of their way to live in a bubble, and keep themselves and their children at least a nautical mile from any potential pathogen or allergen. So it doesn't surprise me in the least when the immune system starts reacting strangely, or goes to Ludicrous Speed. It absolutely needs to be exposed to foreign threats, or it can start seeing a person's own cells as one. Or respond way to strongly and start killing flies with artillery rounds.

Just because it hasn't been called upon to defend the body nearly as much as someone's 2 or 3 generations ago would have been, does not mean it's sitting idle and drinking a Mimosa. It just hasn't been properly programmed, so it sometimes finds its own targets. Which can cause many different ailments.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
a reply to: elementalgrove

Anytime I have posted on a vaccine thread my comments get ignored and people just throw insults at each other. In science you need to pick your battles but I have engaging conversations with high level folk still, problem is nobody wants to think vaccines might cause harm and the media has done the same to the vaccine conversation as it has to the climate change debate.

Both of these issues have caused my layman brain to have a serious distrust for mainstream science, I like to call it the Church of science.

Scientists are just a susceptible to the methods of indoctrination as anyone else, many times their ego makes them more so.

Btw I had a question for you, that you missed in the last thread, you posed this question to someone....

You are just attacking the less informed. Why not have a conversation with me about humoral and innate immune responses? The effects of inflammation on brain development and the blood brain barrier? We could discuss how the timing of vaccines may constitute to behavioural problems in children which is also true for some viral infections.

What is the difference between humoral and innate? Also does encephalitis to some degree happen with every vaccine of a newborn?

a reply to: pfishy

Glad to hear you cousins are happy! We often judge others situations with our own measuring stick, this it appears is folly As regard o your comments about an under stimulated immune system the same is also the result from an over stimulated immune system. The up regulation of genes responsible for specific areas of the immune response can get 'stuck' on, I believe its a methylation process.

This is a wonderful thread. I too, believe that it may be the synergistic effects of toxins and other factors that are responsible for the alarming increase in autistic kids. Stephanie Seneff, a senior research scientist at MIT has come up with some interesting theories. She states the following in an interview I found on Alternet:

SS: I took on the task of trying to figure out autism six or seven years ago because I got concerned about the rising incidence of autism in our country, which I think is very disturbing. It’s risen alarmingly since then. Now it’s one in 50, which is the latest number, which is very frightening to me. So I was looking at all of the environmental toxins, because there has to be an environmental factor, or a combination of environmental factors.

Aluminum is one that I picked up on quite early. Because aluminum is very toxic, and many of the vaccines contain aluminum. And it’s injected directly in, past all the barriers.

Ordinarily the body is quite good about keeping aluminum out. The gut will absorb very little of what’s in the diet...assuming you have a healthy gut. Glyphosate produces a leaky gut, and that’s going to help the aluminum get in. What I believe now is that the aluminum in the vaccine is far more toxic as a consequence of the glyphosate that’s also in the blood. The two of them are synergistic, because the glyphosate forms a cage around the aluminum and keeps it from getting expelled. The aluminum ends up accumulating, getting trapped with the glyphosate, and then the aluminum ends up in the pineal gland, and messes up sleep, and causes a whole cascade of problems in the brain. The glyphosate and aluminum are working together to be much more toxic than they would be, acting alone.

So yes, I do believe that aluminum in vaccines is a contributing factor in autism.

www.alternet.org...



Other factors that may come into play are age at the time of vaccinations, multiple vaccinations at one time, vaccinations from multiple use vials which have additional preservatives, racial background , gender and genetic vulnerability.

a reply to: elementalgrove

The main argument I have seen anti-vaxxers make is that certain phosphates, Thimirasoll or some other Mercury-bearing ingredient is the causal factor for autism in vaccines. Which there has been exactly 0 hard evidence to support. And a lot of those folks pay no attention to the mercury chemistry, specifically. Ethyl mercury and methyl mercury are entirely different, and metabolise differently. One certainly is toxic, and the other is processed put of the body before it can begin to break down and have any potentially harmful effect.
Also, compounds are different than their basic ingredients. Cyanide is toxic. Cyanocobalamine is a B vitamin.
Sorry, I'm not trying to say you are trying to argue these points. Just that the prevalent arguments against vaccines generally use these items as proof of harm. If the immune system is triggered by the dead pathogen in the vaccine, and causes the effects in the OP, then it seems a link is possible. But not for the reasons that people typically espouse. And those are what scientific reasearch has proven to be invalid.

originally posted by: Charlyboy
Anytime I have posted on a vaccine thread my comments get ignored and people just throw insults at each other.

Perhaps because you come across as a know it all who thinks only his opinion is good enough? Look at how you responded to the nurses on the other thread, people with lots of experience, medical experience you don't have. But I don't care about that, your attitude, I simply and honestly think you are not a scientist, real science people (I know many) don't talk about toxins and Big Pharma like you do, the scientific illiterate do that. So I have been wary of you because I don't think you are who you say you are.

But anyway, let's not go after the player like you have done throughout your posts, let's go after the ball, your OP.


First of all I don't believe there is an explosion of autism, as you put it: it has been shown with good studies that reporting practices and diagnostic criteria can account for 2/3 of the increase. Explaining the increase in prevalence of autism spectrum disorders.

Then you explain you think there is a link between producing an inflammatory response (adjuvants/vaccines) and glyphosates (disrupting the blood barrier and allowing microbes to pass).

Vaccines have been given for decades. Glyphosates have been used for decades. So why now, suddenly? Why didn't this 'explosion' of autism happen in the 70s? Why only 40 years later?