Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

And President Donald Trump stepped up on the World stage within a couple hours and called a spade a spade..."TERRORISM"!

(Refreshing for a change).

The previous vagrant and squatter (who shall remain nameless as he should) would have needed 43 cabinet meetings, a Senate sub-committee report, a couple golf games in Hawaii...and even then would have come out with some twisted convoluted message about how ISIS are just misunderstood and we should all feel sorry for them because they're really just a peaceful people.

a reply to: umbr360

There is a significant difference between a person living in an allegedly liberty promoting, free country like ours, and someone living in an intolerant, non-secular, rigid theocracy, or dictatorship.

To put it simply, we live with the knowledge that we have some small measure of power to affect our lives, the direction of policy within our borders, and the capacity to influence how foreign affairs are dealt with by our leaders. Much of this notion has been relegated to the position of a placebo in recent generations of course, but the principle still holds. We have the freedom to vote, and do not live in a theocracy.

For all the machinations of the powerful in our country, which usurp our will, the powers which are wielded over us cannot take away the idea that we SHOULD have some measure of self determination as a people, even if we do not necessarily get all the freedoms we are told we should have.

People in the countries mentioned by sapien82, are NOT in the heady position in which we find ourselves. They are surrounded by fascist and dictatorial regimes, enforcers of the theocracy, brutal warlords and tyrants round every corner, in every village. In many nations of that sort, the very concept of a democratic vote is utterly banal, because it has all the basis in reality that a unicorn possesses. These are not things that the people of those nations have the power to change by way of voting. These are not things that people of those nations can reasonably be expected to take up arms to challenge, and win. The odds are too far stacked against them, whether that be because they are denied an education because it is considered apostasy to learn of the world beyond the ideology, whether it is because they are prevented from knowing how other people really live to make it easier to isolate people and crush their wills...

We have a power that many in that region have not got, have no conception of what so ever. We may be stifled in our execution of that power we all hold as citizens, but we do possess it, and they do not. They have no power to change their countries whatsoever. We DO have the power to change ours for the better, to change its internal structure to better meet the needs of its population, and its foreign policy to better suit a troubled time. We can calm the waters that people in other nations simply cannot, because we are afforded rights that other nations cannot profess to offer their citizens.

We, as the more powerful people, whether that be in individual terms as citizens, or as a country, have a responsibility to utilise our compassion because we have that option open to us. If we, as a country which has this tool in its box, fail to use it, everything everywhere will eventually return to the stone age, because all there will be is escalation, revenge for this, retribution for that, back and forth and on and on. That is not something I am willing to sign up to. That is not a future I accept, not a path I am willing to be taken on.

I demand that this country be the bigger entity, its people sack up and prepare to do the hard thing, not the easy thing, and promote freedom without using bullets and bombs to do it. I demand we take responsibility for the poorness of our choices where leadership is concerned. Blair, Brown, Cameron, May... these people and what they have permitted or enacted, are OUR responsibility to correct, because it was our unwillingness as a whole mass of people, to take our nation by the reigns and demand better than we got, which allowed these people to act as they did.

They must not be permitted to do these things again. We must make better, and more morally sound choices in future, if we want to prevent prevailing circumstances like these.

a reply to: Freeborn

it seems direct action (mass strikes ??) (violence wont solve it) is all that can be done as going about it playing their game wont get us anywhere as its designed to be too big to fail and never allow any change. (this solution is the hardest as you cant get everyone together , as they have divided us for so long )


Whoever or whatever group done this shouldnt be allowed to see daylight again and should be left to think about the consequences of their actions until the day they die.

Well when Im talking about resolving this issue , im not going to be talking about compassion for the victims as this thread isnt a specific discussion about thoughts and prayers for the victims its not a memorial thread.
I like to assume that everyone shows compassion to those who have lost lives and loved ones in this tragedy.


I am not British mate, the British empire died a long time ago , I'm an earthling , who just so happens to be born in Scotland
just because it says so on my travel document doesnt mean anything , That title was forced upon me from birth.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
And President Donald Trump stepped up on the World stage within a couple hours and called a spade a spade..."TERRORISM"!

(Refreshing for a change).

The previous vagrant and squatter (who shall remain nameless as he should) would have needed 43 cabinet meetings, a Senate sub-committee report, a couple golf games in Hawaii...and even then would have come out with some twisted convoluted message about how ISIS are just misunderstood and we should all feel sorry for them because they're really just a peaceful people.

Oh no, the vagrant and squatter was worse than that. He not only appeased terrorists, he paid them hundreds of millions in unmarked bills flown in on a plane in the dead of night. For all we know, some of that money funded the murder of kids in Manchester. He is a terrorist himself.

Compassion, yes that will clearly help to appease a group of ideologists who have been at war almost permanently with the West for the last 1500 years - in between fighting each other that is.

Compression might work a bit better - the kind of compression you get when you take Hajj, Mecca, and a nuclear bomb and mix them all together - not necessarily in that order.

They want a war - we can give them a really, really good one.

They have identified the bomber now.

The youngest victim was an 8 year old girl. Cowardly act of evil, killing little girls.

a reply to: UKTruth

Away with your bull.....Isn't Trump cosying up to one of the biggest terrorist sponsors on the planet just now, signing for mass weapons deals...who's the terrorist and who is stirring the pot?

..Jeez, some people just believe any crap they read online..

a reply to: Power_Semi

Again I was referring to the governments and peoples of said governments that we have wronged for so long
I never once mentioned apologising to terrorists , they wont listen and never will

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: UKTruth

because being compassionate is a sign of weakness to your enemies ,

well that just goes to show the mentality of our species
when being compassionate is a weakness

and being evil and creating terror and causing death is a strength

It baffles me that you would be pointing the finger at the British govt after a radical islamic terrorist blows up kids.
There is no excuse at all, no matter the history of conflict and oppression throughout our history, for what happened last night.
Your solution of saying sorry and giving our enemies gifts in the hope they might stop killing us is tragic.

Straight from the horses mouth.
Terrorists are responsible for this disgusting act but governments are responsible for the rise of terrorism.
Even war criminal Tony Blair admitted

a reply to: celticniall

yes one of the largest exporters of terrorism is siding up nice and cosy with one of the other largest sponsors of terrorism

this whole show is a joke , we cant allow them to continue taking the piss out of us all like this

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: umbr360
They must not be permitted to do these things again. We must make better, and more morally sound choices in future, if we want to prevent prevailing circumstances like these.

Attacks will continue, because the people attacking do not care in the slightest about what "morally sound choices" we make. If anything, it's that very capacity to make "morally sound choices" that is under attack.

The people who are attacking us are doing so for no other reason than our refusal to submit to them and their ideology. There is nothing you can say, think, or do, that will change that. They will never say, "Hmm, well the UK just made a nice moral choice there, let's call the whole thing off!"

Compassion my arse. That only works when both sides of the equation are rational. The only outcomes the radicals will accept are submission or death.

a reply to: ErrorErrorError

he should be in the hague and then imprisoned for life along with Bush Jr

originally posted by: ErrorErrorError

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: UKTruth

because being compassionate is a sign of weakness to your enemies ,

well that just goes to show the mentality of our species
when being compassionate is a weakness

and being evil and creating terror and causing death is a strength

It baffles me that you would be pointing the finger at the British govt after a radical islamic terrorist blows up kids.
There is no excuse at all, no matter the history of conflict and oppression throughout our history, for what happened last night.
Your solution of saying sorry and giving our enemies gifts in the hope they might stop killing us is tragic.

Straight from the horses mouth.
Terrorists are responsible for this disgusting act but governments are responsible for the rise of terrorism.
Even war criminal Tony Blair admitted

..and how has Tony "War Criminal" Blair's apology worked out for the kids just blown to pieces?

a reply to: celticniall

Who is it, again, who "just believe(s) any crap they read online"?????

Hmmmm???

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: celticniall

yes one of the largest exporters of terrorism is siding up nice and cosy with one of the other largest sponsors of terrorism

this whole show is a joke , we cant allow them to continue taking the piss out of us all like this

And so, ... your solution is exactly what again?

a reply to: EvillerBob

that is where I find confusion how can you show compassion to mass murdering rapists
no matter how against violence I am how can you stand there and speak to these people if all they want to do is cut of your infidel head and piss down your blood gurgling throat ?

Is there a line which has been crossed when even the most devout non violent people have to make a stand and fight for what is the good left in humanity and sacrifice for others so that others can find joy and compassion in future generations

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: Power_Semi

Again I was referring to the governments and peoples of said governments that we have wronged for so long
I never once mentioned apologising to terrorists , they wont listen and never will

So how then do you believe that apologising to someone else unconnected to the terrorists will stop the terrorists?

As you said the terrorists won't listen, so if apologising to countries/governments will do nothing then why do it - all it does is shows how weak we are and encourages more attacks.

It isn't just pointless it's counterproductive - you will in effect be "admitting" wrongdoing against Islam, and actually inviting "retribution" by these morons.

We've bent over to their ludicrous demands for long enough, we even serve Halal meat in schools so they aren't "offended".

Appeasement has been shown to cause more attacks and more carnage, now it's time to take off the gloves and let them know who is the boss.

a reply to: sapien82

it seems direct action is all that can be done as going about it playing their game wont get us anywhere as its designed to be too big to fail and never allow any change.

Direct action against those that continue to control this country and exploit its people or direct action against the people who perpetrated this barbaric act of terrorism?
Why would one be acceptable and the other not?

I have no love for those that control us and the system that enables it, but I am also a pragmatist.
There are far worse systems in this world....but that doesn't mean we shouldn't constantly work for change.

But I digress.

Whoever or whatever group done this shouldnt be allowed to see daylight again and should be left to think about the consequences of their actions until the day they die.

I am in complete agreement.

I like to assume that everyone shows compassion to those who have lost lives and loved ones in this tragedy.

I'd like to assume you are right, but unfortunately you are not.
All too often people choose to offer up excuses for these scumbag terrorists rather than show any compassion at all for the victims etc.

I am not British mate, the British empire died a long time ago , I'm an earthling , .....

Who said anything about the Empire....another time and place and bugger all to do with me....or you.
But the people from the constituent parts of the UK share many more traits and characteristics than those that separate and divide us.

.....who just so happens to be born in Scotland

Things could be far worse.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

To end western foregin policy and interference in sovereign democracies which is directly related to the creation of terror cells which attack and kill innocent people to damage the public opinion of governments at home and to spread terror and fear

and also to end the mass production of arms and ordnance world wide

that is what Id call a good start

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: celticniall

yes one of the largest exporters of terrorism is siding up nice and cosy with one of the other largest sponsors of terrorism

this whole show is a joke , we cant allow them to continue taking the piss out of us all like this

And so, ... your solution is exactly what again?

It appears the 'solution' is to apologise to those that seek to kill us and hope they show us mercy.