Trump the Heretic

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
And I don't trust in your judgement of character.

Given that you can't see what type of person Trump is, I'm not sure I can trust in your judgment of character.

Like I said one post above, I don't think character or morality is something one can actually base a campaign on, but look at it for what it is. Trump is a serial cheater, rapist, con man, bigot, tax dodger, all around chauvinist asshole, and possibly a racist. Maybe you still want him to be President despite those things, but that doesn't mean he isn't those things.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Which is?

Let me guess... not presidential? temperamentally unfit? the worlds most dangerous man?

An average American with above average wealth. Precisely the category of person that shouldn't be President.

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
Well...was it this bad when Romney was running for office ? Maybe I just wasnt following closely.

Worse, much worse.

As far as campaigns go, tensions are high between the hardcore R's and D's, but most people really just don't care. This is the least followed election of my lifetime (which goes back to Reagan), even though the media is shoving it down our throats more than ever.

Edit: I should clarify. In real life, this is the least enthusiastic campaign ever. People (possibly people being paid) are really stirring stuff up online though. ATS is the worst it's ever been for example.

originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
a reply to: angeldoll

Those of us with INCOME pay income taxes. It is required of everyone, including those who can afford to Con their way out of it.
That is his definition of "winning". Of "genius". The big Con.

The more I learn about him, the more I believe he behaves like a gangster; a mobster, with a clever criminal-like intelligence.

His income was in the negative by almost a billion dollars. Would you pay income taxes if you had less than zero income?

Depends on if it was passive or active losses, net operating losses carry forward forever, if he hasn't made that back in 18 years, not much of a businessman.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
You brought up the tax issue.

He didn't break any laws, he didn't violate the tax code.

I'll wait until more is known on the issue but $910 million in personal holdings is very suspect. I can believe his business took those types of losses, but I highly doubt Trump lost nearly a billion in personal assets that year.

Our tax code is seriously f'd up, but if anyone thinks Trump will fix that, they need to be examined by a competent medical professional. The tax code favors the wealthy.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
Our tax code is seriously f'd up, but if anyone thinks Trump will fix that, they need to be examined by a competent medical professional. The tax code favors the wealthy.

It does.

Most things favor the wealthy. I'd say almost everything favors the wealthy.

Name me one thing that doesn't.

(not to be prickish, just illustrating how life is.)

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: DBCowboy
You brought up the tax issue.

He didn't break any laws, he didn't violate the tax code.

I'll wait until more is known on the issue but $910 million in personal holdings is very suspect. I can believe his business took those types of losses, but I highly doubt Trump lost nearly a billion in personal assets that year.

I don't work with billionaires, but more than a few millionaires. Their corporate structures are so convoluted, you cannot even imagine. When I first began working for an accountant 8 years ago, I told my boss at the time, the more confused the corporate structure, the more likely for fraud. He looked at me like I had lost my mind, but it has proven true in our practice more than once.

a reply to: matafuchs

Thank you! I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond. May I offer quick comments on each one in return?

1.
So a leader has to be flexible AND tough at the same time. Mutually exclusive platitudes, trying to focus on his reputed (yet not verified) skills in "negotiations" i.e. The Art of the Deal (which he didn't even write).

In the US our "leader" (i.e. the President) doesn't determine what goes into bills and what doesn't (to this extent) ... he doesn't understand basic separation of powers.

"Bridge to nowhere" ... another empty platitude. Populist BS.

2.
Blindingly obvious statement. "People are our top priority"? Sounds like he lifted it from Hertz.

3.
Gross oversimplification and ballyhoo. Trump himself has participated in EXACTLY what he's (apparently) criticizing. Pardon me, but I have a problem believing that a man with gold fixtures in his bathroom knows what a dollar even looks like.

4.
Justifying the fact that he doesn't have cogent plans and policies and thinks he can run the country the way he runs his businesses ... by fiat and bluster. /shrug not buying it.

5.
Our military is not weak ... we are more capable than the next six militaries and spend like it. More jingoism.

~~~~~~~~~

I told you what is wrong with MOST of the statements he makes (including these that you've chosen) ... they say NOTHING ... no substance aside from "I'm rich so I'm brilliant" and "Trust me, I know what to do."

And those are his more cogent moments....

I don't "hate" Mr. T ... I enjoyed the television character he created ... I have quite simply seen NOTHING in any recent decision-making evidenced by him that suggests he could run a small town effectively, much less, the United States of America.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: angeldoll

So Trump is bad because he obeyed the law and followed the rules set forth by congress.

Correct?

That's not the point they are making.

Their point is, that he MAY HAVE NOT paid taxes, no matter if it was legal.

I wonder if anyone has done the math concerning how much tax he would have paid without losing the $900 mil?

Probably not enough to buy a starbucks grande.

lol.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

This just highlights the greed of the entitlement class.

originally posted by: BubbaJoe
I don't work with billionaires, but more than a few millionaires. Their corporate structures are so convoluted, you cannot even imagine. When I first began working for an accountant 8 years ago, I told my boss at the time, the more confused the corporate structure, the more likely for fraud. He looked at me like I had lost my mind, but it has proven true in our practice more than once.

I wonder how convoluted Trumps main business is. It's just real estate development, which he can take depreciation on. I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn he got some major tax deductions in the 90's, I'm just confused why he seems to have nearly a billion in his personal assets. He's funneled most of his lifestyle through his corporations he owns in full so that he doesn't pay taxes, and can turn his living expenses into business expenses. Having nearly a billion dollars in personal loss just doesn't add up.

All of which brings up another question too, what effective rate is he paying and can that suggest his true income? 1 billion over 20 years is $50 million per year. $50 million at the Gates/Buffet/Romney rate of 12% is $416 million per year. But that would suggest 8 billion over 20 years, in personal income saying nothing about his other assets. That can't be right.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: angeldoll

You brought up the tax issue.

He didn't break any laws, he didn't violate the tax code.

Now if you want a legitimate issue with Trump, you should bring up his approval to the "no fly-no buy" issue.

That, I find deplorable.

How do you know he didn't break any laws? We haven't seen his tax returns and don't forget he "IS" under investigation for using a charity for self dealing. That is illegal and would be breaking laws. He also used his charity to scope investments in Cuba which very illegal.

Saying that no laws were broken and there were no tax violations is patently false.


Trump is a crooked businessman and only a fool will think he will miraculously become a honest politician.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Simple.

Show me the laws he broke.

a reply to: DBCowboy

The ones he has already been penalized for or the ones that there are multiple threads on here for?

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: DBCowboy

The ones he has already been penalized for or the ones that there are multiple threads on here for?

You said he broke tax laws.

I asked you to prove it.

Prove it.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Grimpachi

Simple.

Show me the laws he broke.

He's standing trial for the Trump University fraud. I wonder how that's going to go considering he mocked the judge for not being white enough, after the judge did him a huge favor and scheduled the trial for after the election.

a reply to: Aazadan

If we're going to debate if Trump is a jerk, it'll be a short match.

A member claimed that Trump violated tax laws.

I asked which ones?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: burgerbuddy

This just highlights the greed of the entitlement class.

You are sooooooo right.

These idiots would not see a dime from any "re-distribution" of wealth.

"WE took down the wealthy but that money is gone now. It went to the indoc..I mean your community centers! But WE are forced to start taking from you to sustain your wonderful govt provided living benefits!"

yay.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
You said he broke tax laws.

I asked you to prove it.

Prove it.

Tax laws may or may not have been broken, that's for the audit to determine. At this point though he could release them. I suspect it's more of a Hillary Clinton type situation though. What happened was legal, and people aren't going to take it well so he wants to keep the information out of the court of public opinion.

That said, regardless of how the tax situation turns out... I'll say this. I've never taken a single deduction on my taxes, and I always pay an extra 10% on the bill. If everyone did that we would have no budget issues, no debt issues, and the economy would be in much better shape. But, people would rather idolize those who live the dream of taking from society while cutting every corner to give back as little as possible.

Government needs it's revenue, it's a zero sum game. Every dollar he used questionable practices to get out of paying, is another dollar you had to pay. That's Trump saying his money is worth more than yours.