The Blood of Christ, the Blood of the Lamb.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

That is a metaphor.

My spirit was never dead.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

But Jesus had a physical body, so He must have meant something else. He said "as angels", not "will be angels".

And Jesus was talking about marital relationships.

That is not the point...

Angels do not have a physical body... Just as Paul says, No flesh can enter heaven...

Jesus returned to the physical realm with a body... but he did not return to heaven with it, nor was he "IN heaven" with it...

The spiritual realm has no physical aspect to it... except in your own theology

a reply to: LenatasataneL

The biblical definition for death means separation, not annihilation. Physical death is separation form the body, spiritual death is separation from God, soul death is separation from God's thought process.

a reply to: Akragon

Ok, but the fact remains that there is still some kind of body in heave (metaphysical), and it doesn't cancel out our humanity, it simply upgrades it, so we still have a human spirit and soul in heaven or hell.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Ok, but the fact remains that there is still some kind of body in heave (metaphysical), and it doesn't cancel out our humanity, it simply upgrades it, so we still have a human spirit and soul in heaven or hell.

I agree there is a celestial body to cover the celestial spirit in heaven. I agree that it does not cancel out the righteous persons humanity.

But from there is where I am lost.

What do you mean when you say - "we still have a human spirit and soul in heaven or hell?" - I don't think we are on the same page.

a reply to: Seede

Adam was created as a body filled with the breath of lives. So man is Spirit, Soul, and Body. Therefore salvation must include Spiritual regeneration, washing of the Soul (in the Blood of Christ), and Resurrection of the Body to reflect the reborn spirit and washed soul.

So whether the individual goes to heaven or hell, he (as a soul) takes his spirit (dead or alive) with him, and is given a fitting body (first resurrection or second).

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Ok, but the fact remains that there is still some kind of body in heave (metaphysical), and it doesn't cancel out our humanity, it simply upgrades it, so we still have a human spirit and soul in heaven or hell.

what would it be... as spiritual beings... Angels

How can "hell" exist without the physical threat of pain?

a reply to: Akragon

Well, shame is a form of spiritual pain, and people who go into the Lake of Fire are given a special body that can endure an eternity of flames.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Well, shame is a form of spiritual pain, and people who go into the Lake of Fire are given a special body that can endure an eternity of flames.

You have an amazing imagination. It is like a kid arguing that Superman can beat up Batman because Batman has no super powers.

But then the other kid (you) says that Batman was given Super powers in one episode and could have beaten him up then.

Accept that episode/issue happens to be outside the official DC universe. (I'm only using this as an example and don't know much about comic books).

My point is you are speculating fantasies.

You can't prove any of it.

a reply to: LenatasataneL
Read Rev 20 or 21, about the Second Death. I'm not making this up.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Nothing in that book has or will ever come true it is not even a true prophecy it is an apocalypse of the happenings in John's day with cryptic imagery to disguise it as just another apocalyptic writing as that was practically an industry at that time.

Whoever he was writing to knew how to decipher the cryptic language and it was a message of such importance that encryption was necessary.

So well encrypted was it that nobody has been able to correctly decipher it, and the fact that it is all events in John's generation doesn't help either.

Nobody wrote prophecies about what could be millions of years from now.

originally posted by: LenatasataneL
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Nothing in that book has or will ever come true it is not even a true prophecy it is an apocalypse of the happenings in John's day with cryptic imagery to disguise it as just another apocalyptic writing as that was practically an industry at that time.

Whoever he was writing to knew how to decipher the cryptic language and it was a message of such importance that encryption was necessary.

So well encrypted was it that nobody has been able to correctly decipher it, and the fact that it is all events in John's generation doesn't help either.

Nobody wrote prophecies about what could be millions of years from now.

Whatever.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: LenatasataneL
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Nothing in that book has or will ever come true it is not even a true prophecy it is an apocalypse of the happenings in John's day with cryptic imagery to disguise it as just another apocalyptic writing as that was practically an industry at that time.

Whoever he was writing to knew how to decipher the cryptic language and it was a message of such importance that encryption was necessary.

So well encrypted was it that nobody has been able to correctly decipher it, and the fact that it is all events in John's generation doesn't help either.

Nobody wrote prophecies about what could be millions of years from now.

Whatever.

I am not saying quit studying it just consider that the beast 666 is believed to refer to Nero because in both Hebrew grematria and its Greek equivalent Nero's name equals 666. 616 in Latin, which is why versions have been found with that number.

That tells you he is talking about the coming Jewish rebellion. He thinks that the angels and heavenly creatures are going to assist his clan against the Romans, the Pharisee collaborators and the fake church of Paul.

Wrong though he was, the book has been the most damaging to the church keeping people yurning for Armageddon and confused as hell with violent images and crazy visions of war in heaven.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

Well, shame is a form of spiritual pain, and people who go into the Lake of Fire are given a special body that can endure an eternity of flames.

No...

Shame is the same thing as guilt... which is felt physically, just as all other pain is

There is no such thing as "spiritual pain"... this is one of the aspects of fear based conversion tactics...

Pain requires a physical body... Thus Hell can not exist in such a sense

Even heart break, which is the worst of all pain is felt physically, though mental anguish is very strenuous as well

a reply to: Akragon

Right? No flesh, no pain. Nerves specifically And a brain are needed for pain, emotional still needs a brain.

Why else divide the elements of humans into body, spirit and soul if the spirit can do the body's job?

I still want to know what happens to the soul?

And the exact difference between the two. Because a spirit seems like a soul, separated from the body.

I would say after death we are made entirely of spirit in the likeness of pure light.

a reply to: LenatasataneL

TextI would say after death we are made entirely of spirit in the likeness of pure light.

yes--- That is the doctrine of Jesus and James. I don't know about all of these other doctrines floating about but both Moses and Jesus taught the very same as you have said. There are only two portions of God and two portions of a human. One portion is the image and the other portion is the spirit. The image is either celestial or terrestrial and is the portion that changes at death. The spirit is the life source that controls the image and is always celestial.

It is the spirit that is judged at death. It controls the physical brain till death and is a detached consciousness from all physicality. I just listened to a paper from the science of life which I did not take notes but will try to get the scientists involved. The experiment was conducted upon mice with video to prove its findings. The videos have repeatedly shown that conception is a spark of light when the sperm makes instant contact with the egg of like sources. This will hit the science academia soon but proves to me that sperm and egg which are two portions involved are all the is needed in procreation.

I don't understand a triune God Head at all and cannot understand how two Holy Ghosts can be included in the doctrine of James and Jesus. Likewise I cannot see where three portions of procreation are involved. At death, only one portion of man is life and that portion is the celestial spirit which is the life source. Mind , heart, soul, and spirit are interchangeable Greek philosophy and have confused many people.

As Jesus returned to His totally celestial estate, the Holy spirit came in His place. There are some who understand this to mean that this Holy spirit is different than the Holy Spirit that infilled those in the upper room and that Holy spirit is a third portion of the Creator. Thus they have a trinity. To my understanding that is not in the doctrine of either Jesus or James.

a reply to: Akragon

There is no such thing as "spiritual pain"... this is one of the aspects of fear based conversion tactics...

I agree -- My understanding is that the punishment it is torment and not pain.

a reply to: Seede

I think you might have that reversed. Adam's soul and spirit (breath of lives) were created/filled in God's image/shadow. Adam's body was formed from the earth. There are two different Hebrew words distinguishing each instant. I dont remember them at the moment. One is bara, the other is either banah or yatser.

I do believe in Trinity, but that is a different conversation.

Also, both OT and NT always state that life begins out from the womb, never in the womb. Life at conception is not a Hebrew doctrine, and it really didn't make its way into Protestant theology until the 1960s-70s.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How would that be possible... we know a baby is alive in the womb

Hell even John did back flips when he was in the womb when he came close to Jesus

a reply to: Akragon

A fetus has neuro circuitry in the womb which usually responds to the mother's emotions, but biological life does not mean a soul and spirit are present. John was filled with the spirit upon LEAVING the womb. We misunderstand that due to mistranslations fueled by political motives.