The Blood of Christ, the Blood of the Lamb.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have it all mixed up Jesus did not die spiritually only physically.

Then explain to me how He could say "it is finished" before His death.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have it all mixed up Jesus did not die spiritually only physically.

Then explain to me how He could say "it is finished" before His death.

Yea, it's like the whole thing doesn't make any sense. It's like these words were written by people thousands of years ago in a culture that was scientifically illiterate.

a reply to: Woodcarver

Makes perfect sense to me. Science is human observation. Spiritual phenomena must be revealed by a power hihger than the human mind.

It does not tell me how my sin was forgiven the church calls this a great mystery.a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: mikefunctions

Could you be more specific as to what part of my explanation was unclear?

God was offended by our sinful thinking, Christ's thinking overcompensates for our shortfall. Therefore, God is satisfied and we are forgiven.

I don,t see how that forgives sin. But that still does not explain how my sin was forgiven. The bible explains that God gave his son to die for me because he loved me, If God is all powerful The father could have stopped the crucifixion but Christ was predestined to die for me. Christ prayed to for this cup to pass from him, he did not want to suffer this punishment. It was God who gave this command to him and God did this because he loved me. To let his son suffer this is the greatest atrocity Known to man because he was faultless, perfect and his only begotten son. This is similar to the father of the faith Abraham and Isaac and if Abraham would of murdered his son it would of been a sin according to the law just like when Cain murdered his brother. But Abraham obeyed and a angel stop him and then blessed him and told him all nations would be blessed for his obedience. This act is why Abraham is the father of the faith. It seems to me that the Christ became Godhead and God did an act that tops any carnal sin I could do. Sin is what separated me from God so God did an act that trumps anything I could or did do in my life but it was not sin because it was done out of love and love is the reason for the law. The greatest commandment of all is to love God and love your neighbor as yourself All the Law and Prophets are built on these two laws. So I believe that the obedience of Christ restored me to the Father and the fathers act of commanding his son to Obey him, would have been the single greatest sin, if it was not done out of love, so there is nothing I can do that will separate me from the love of the Father.
This is my opinion. a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: mikefunctions

Human good is not the same as God's standard. Jesus didn't have to die. He had every opportunity during His trial to deny that He was the messiah. If He had done that, then He would have walked. So Jesus died out of love for His Father, because His Father loves us. Yeah, He suffered, and died.....but He was resurrected, and is now glorified and immortal.

We all die. It doesn't matter how we die. Whether it is peaceful or violent, its still death and just a means to enter the afterlife. The significance is why do you die? Because you fulfilled your destiny? Or because you failed?

The human idea of good and evil is one of comfort vs discomfort. God is concerned with the Truth, whether its comforting or not. If you stay in your comfort zone all your life, you'll never grow, and you'll never have the capacity for greater truth.

Psalm 22 for God had brought him to the dust of death. This is my belief. a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I also think you are belittling his sacrifice when jesus prayed until he dripped blood. reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: mikefunctions

How did I belittle His sacrifice? He asked His Father if there was another way to redeem man, and His Father said no, so out of love for His Father, He went to the cross. His love for God was so powerful that He became sin for us. That is the ultimate sacrifice.

I don't quite understand your reasoning.

We all die. It doesn't matter how we die a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

a reply to: mikefunctions

Right, not how we die, but why we die...or more to the point, what our priorities were in life. Jesus' #1 priority was fulfilling His Father's plan, so even to Jesus, it didn't matter how He died, by why He died. He didn't like it, but He went through with it anyways.

Why the hoopla over a dead man's blood?

Christ is a lamb?

So... your God is a lamb that died for the purpose of the sins of the future?

Is it retroactive, to the sins of the past?

What if you live somewhere where Christianity is not available? Or illegal?

What if I don't believe it but do everything right and don't sin after repentance?

I go to hell for not believing in a myth?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Yikes.

a reply to: mikefunctions

I don,t see how that forgives sin. But that still does not explain how my sin was forgiven. The bible explains that God gave his son to die for me because he loved me,

Most all Christian organizations are not teaching the complete picture. When you and I die we face a judgment as to whether we shall enter the kingdom of heaven or do not enter the kingdom of heaven. This is not being taught in most places today. The average person today is taught that Jesus came down to shed His blood and everybody is forgiven. God is love and He loves everything and everybody and there is no such thing as hell or punishment because Jesus forgave your sins on the cross. Every filthy person is now cleaned up because Jesus shed His blood.

Therein lies the problem. It is not true. If all sins were forgiven by the blood of Jesus then there would not be any judgments whatsoever but most all people today will believe the big lie. The blood of the Christ Jesus was to redeem all of those who will accept the rules and regulations of Jesus in order for them to enter His kingdom. The blood was not to magically erase every ones sins but instead it was shed because He had to die and leave His creation. He had to die in order to be restored and it matters not how He died but why He died just as Believerpriest has postulated.

When Jesus entered His creation, He did so in the manner of His own laws and when He left this creation He also left by His own laws. He had to die in the manner of a terrestrial death. He made these laws and He obeyed every law that He ordained. If He had not done so then He would not have been true. But even so He did not give a blanket forgiveness of sin to sinners who have died in their sins.

Then why did He come in the first place? He came to redeem the righteous who were in Sheol and introduce His kingdom to those righteous who live thereafter. But there will be a judgement for each and everyone of us and it was never done away with by blood. That is the doctrine of Jesus and of James.

a reply to: Seede

So there are conditions to the saving effects of the crucifixion?

Rules and regulations?

I agree but replace rules and regulations with:. "Teachings of Christ."

The crucifixion is not what saves you. Believing is the first step then baptism then you receive the Spirit and are saved.

If not, condemned.

According to Jesus.

I like the emphasis you place on James. He was the most revered person after Jesus and he has been severely marginalized.

a reply to: Seede

I'll have to disagree with you there. Jesus' spiritual death paid for all sins, so ALL sins are forgiven, hence: "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Our spirits are no longer condemned by our sins (since all are forgiven), but our souls are judged for the Works we do apart from Christ.

A non-believer dies the second death (Lake of Fire). A carnal believer suffers injury of the second death (the Outer Darkness).

John 15:5“I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned

Rev 20:13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.

Even a good deed, if done apart from Christ, will be burned, but to judge anyone (believer or non-believer alike) for sin would be double jeopardy.

originally posted by: LenatasataneL
a reply to: Seede

The crucifixion is not what saves you. Believing is the first step then baptism then you receive the Spirit and are saved.

Szarah, its really dishonest the way you keep coming back with these fake profiles. You're not fooling anyone.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I'll have to disagree with you there. Jesus' spiritual death paid for all sins, so ALL sins are forgiven, hence: "Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

Which does not mean everyone in the world...

Our spirits are no longer condemned by our sins (since all are forgiven), but our souls are judged for the Works we do apart from Christ.

Golden ticket theology... aka... Paul

A non-believer dies the second death (Lake of Fire). A carnal believer suffers injury of the second death (the Outer Darkness).

Even though said person might be a much more loving and caring person then the believer... and actually followed "HIS" words more so then said believer...

a reply to: Akragon

I am taking the entire OT and NT into account, whereas you stick to the gospels, but even then, Paul did not teach anything new. The judgment of works is in John 15, the Outer Darkness in Matt 24, the Lake of Fire in Matt 25.

Lets go back to John 15. Those who do not abide in Christ are withered and burned. To abide in Christ, you must first believe in Christ. So yes, so-called "good" non-believer will die the second death if he remains a non-believer. Its not about good works, its about Christ-works. There is a difference between what Christ did and what man tries to pass off as "good".