EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: Zaphod58

The NTSB found that in May 2007, Airbus had issued a service bulletin to modify the electrical system so that the AC power supply would be automatically reconfigured in the event of a failure affecting the #1 bus. The FAA didn’t issue an airworthiness directive to mandate compliance, which the NTSB says it should now do. The Flight 731 aircraft hadn’t been modified. The NTSB also said the FAA should require better guidance and more simulator training about dealing with electrical malfunctions for Airbus A320 pilots.

a reply to: Zaphod58

As was to be expected in my view, we could also say that MH17 made a 90 degree left turn based on primary radar.

Zaph, et al. Does anyone know precisely what frequency these particular black boxes are using? I have seen reference to 37.5 kHz , as in the MH30 incident. However, there is a newer low frequency device out and also a model with a life increase to 90 days, but I think that came too late (not familiar with it), unless somehow retrofitted.

a reply to: charlyv

That would only be on board if the recorders on this aircraft required their return to the OEM prior to this flight.

Quite a few people aren't happy that Egypt is the lead on this investigation. French families have raised concerns after the way Egypt cooperated poorly with French investigators in the 2004 crash of Flash Airlines 604 in Sharm el-Sheikh. French and American investigators said that pilot error played a role, in that the pilot was distracted. The Egyptian investigators (yet again) refused to blame the pilot, saying there had to be a mechanical problem that caused it.

Now aviation safety experts are concerned that Egyptian recovery teams are mishandling the wreckage. Pictures have been released showing military members recovering wreckage without gloves or protective gear, and laying it on unprotected surfaces, which could lead to contamination when chemical analysis is performed looking for possible explosive residue.

The EgyptAir probe isn’t the first time Egypt’s ability to handle evidence has been questioned. After a Russian airliner crashed into a sparsely populated and remote section of the Sinai Peninsula in October, authorities were slow to secure the site, people familiar with the scene said at the time. Too many individuals, including government officials, were being allowed access, the people said, without taking proper precautions to maintain the integrity of the physical evidence.

Former U.S. National Transportation Safety Board Chairman Jim Hall, who had a tense relationship with his Egyptian counterparts while investigating the crash of an EgyptAir flight shortly after takeoff from New York’s John F. Kennedy International Airport in 1999, said the NTSB typically relies on salvage experts from the U.S. Navy. They have precise protocols about who can touch debris or human remains, and how they are handled. Based on experience with Egypt’s flag carrier and federal air-safety authorities, he said their “technical ability is hit and miss.”

Egyptian authorities also have struggled in securing scenes such as the sporadic bombings that have struck Cairo since a 2013 coup provoked a wave of attacks against the government. It is typical to see civilians and onlookers walking throughout the bombing sites, even hours after police arrive. Basic procedures, like cordoning off the scene, are rarely followed.

www.wsj.com...

originally posted by: charlyv
Zaph, et al. Does anyone know precisely what frequency these particular black boxes are using? I have seen reference to 37.5 kHz , as in the MH30 incident. However, there is a newer low frequency device out and also a model with a life increase to 90 days, but I think that came too late (not familiar with it), unless somehow retrofitted.

According to Wikipedia the "Underwater locator beacon":

An underwater locator beacon (ULB) or underwater acoustic beacon, is a device fitted to aviation flight recorders such as the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR). ULBs are also sometimes required to be attached directly to an aircraft fuselage. ULBs are triggered by water immersion; most emit an ultrasonic 10ms pulse once per second at 37.5 kHz ± 1kHz.

PS: Nice YouTube about these ...

CONCERNING THE CRASH & POSSIBLE TERRORIST INVOLVEMENT:

Speculation almost inevitably will try to fill in the gaps in the meantime.
Other possibilities pointed to by Stewart include a grass-roots terror group that wants to remain unknown, or an inside operator who wasn't on the plane but who had access to it. "They could be trying to protect that attacker," Stewart said. ...

CNBC.COM...www.cnbc.com...

related: Egypt using robot submarine to search for EgyptAir Flight 804...expect a month for info to be released



the 5 days since the EgyptAir take-down is not enough time to make reasonable deflections credible---
such as Egypt deliberately changing the narrative to delete the 2 maneuvers the Muslim pilots made which 30 seconds later developed into the downward spiral to destruction.

the above quote alludes some new and unknown perps. doing the take-down of the pilots and thus the flight.
in a much earlier post I submitted an unknown Salafist band of Jihadists who deemed the pilot of flight 804 as a fallen Muslim, who created the air drama that the flights he piloted were mini-Mosques or 'sanctuaries' meant to make-peace with non-Muslims and to give comfort to actual Muslims who were technical captives of the flight Captain.
the fundamentalist Salafists got aboard that pilots flight to settle a score they had with him as behaving like a fallen-away Muslim who was breaking Sharia Law in committing Apostasy

the pilots were bumped off by a team of fundamentalist Jihadi-Islamics who were assigned the duty to stop the offenders of pure Islam.....
that's my prediction... but will the truth ever be revealed? the Industry and Egypt are both conspiring to not reveal the true facts because of the collapse of the airline industry which will result, with Muslims in just about every major airport Hub around the world, all performing different duties from baggage to clean-up, food service, refueling, piloting... the whole network would collapse by potential Victims refusing to fly when other transport is safer

a reply to: earthling42

The window heater??

The computer may have short-circuited, overheated and started a fire, eventually leading to a total electrical failure on the plane, said the chief avionics mechanic, basing the assessment on the ACARS messages.

977thebolt.com...

a reply to: Cosmocow

The window heaters were a very real and serious problem in the past.

a reply to: Cosmocow

This is the problem, The anti ice whc message does not nessecarely mean that the whc was faulty, it could well be triggered by some other event on the aircraft.
What it does mean in my understanding is that the windows are not heated anymore, hence the sensor messages on the r windows.
At the same time 00:26 there is a smoke detection in one of the lavatories, this might be detected in the lavatory in the front but it can also have been detected in one of the two lavatories in the back of the aircraft.
A minute later at 00:27 there is a smoke detection in the avionics bay.

Have a look at this video.


Smoke in one of the lavatories or in the avionics bay does not necessarily indicate a fire in either a lavatory or the avionics bay, the smoke can travel through the airconditioning system since air from within the aircraft is used.
The picture which i posted a few pages back seems to show signs of discoloration due to heat, so a fire in the cabin seems likely, now the question is what caused it?

This is simply to swiftly, there was no distress call, a possible short circuit cannot lead to the loss of an aircraft within three minutes.

a reply to: earthling42

It was probably similar to the SwissAir MD-11 crash where the fire was burning for awhile, before bringing the plane down. It was probably smoldering for a while, and then flashed over and burned through systems and they lost control.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I doubt that because a lot of changes were made, especially the isolation.
But in all honesty, either picked up debris will reveal more evidence, or if they are successful in locating and retrieving the black boxes, they might reveal what happened.
My fear however is that they also stopped at 00:29, and if retrieved, are they still intact? the impact must have been enormous.

a reply to: earthling42

It fits better than a fire taking them down in three minutes. Swiss was on fire from the time they detected smoke, but didn't see a Master Caution until almost the end.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The difference is however that the md-11 flew for 16 more minutes after they noticed the odor of a fire.
Above all, there was a distress call and no loss of signal until the aircraft hit the water.

a reply to: earthling42

They noticed the smoke because of where the fire was. The fire in that case was in the IFE system which was above and behind the cockpit. A fire starting below the floor would have taken longer to notice smoke.

a reply to: Zaphod58

so these warnings of the window and smoke alarms could really be connected to a fire that brought down the plane? Is that your likely best guess scenario with the little clues on hand so far?

a reply to: Cosmocow

Yes. As the wiring burned through an alarm for that system would pop up.

On board fire fits everything we know so far. The question is what started it.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If this window deicer was a problem before, was there a fix for it? Did EgyptAir fix theirs if so?

Jesus, just googled "window heater malfuncton" and quickly saw it has been an issue before...

www.dailymail.co.uk...[editby ]edit on 24-5-2016 by Cosmocow because: link added