EgyptAir flight from Paris to Cairo has vanished from Radar

a reply to: Zaphod58

The squawk code never changed to an emergency so this is more likely to be sensational media than actual truth.

a reply to: earthling42

Possibly, as I said I haven't seen it confrmed, but TBH, if I was dealing with a cockpit filled with smoke, and was trying to clear it, I'd worry about the transponder later and deal with the problem first.

a reply to: Zaphod58

If and that is a big 'if' they had time to discuss their problems with Egypt air control, they would surely have had time for the squawk number.
Let alone answer the Greek ATC when they attempted to contact MS804.

a reply to: earthling42

If and that is a big 'if' they had time to discuss their problems with Egypt air control, they would surely have had time for the squawk number.
Let alone answer the Greek ATC when they attempted to contact MS804.

Let alone indicate that they were under attack, also.

a reply to: ColdWisdom

You do realize that fire doesn't mean attack right? Fires start on planes without any outside assistance.

a reply to: earthling42

I know that, but as I said, if it was bad enough to require an emergency descent, the last thing I'd worry about was a transponder code. Get the smoke cleared first, then worry about the transponder. As for the radio, if they were already talking to Cairo, they most likely already switched frequencies and didn't hear the Greek controllers calling them.

That's assuming this is real anyway.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The answer

a reply to: earthling42

Won't be the last bit of information that's wrong.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes, that is for sure.

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's what I'm saying, Zaphod.

If the report is true and they managed to make contact with ATC, then they certainly would have had the opportunity to indicate that there was an attack.

So if the report is true then it almost eliminates the possibility that this was an act of terrorism. Of course, it's possible that they reported the fire without knowing the cause but the cause could still have been intentional.

A couple data points here...

a. The PNF hails "mayday" in step three of the first instrument loop on Emergency Descent.

b. The PNF squawks 7700 in step 3a of the first instrument loop on Emergency Descent.

Therefore, if the PF / PIC was the left seat at 00:26Z, and given the ACARS alerts at 00:26Z, this would mean that the PNF was right seat, hence no 7700 on the transponder and no "mayday". In other words the right seat may have been incapacitated.

(Steps 1 and 2 for the PNF are SIGNS and ENG MODE SEL (IGN)...which we have no way to know if they were executed at present.

The above would likely be the case because, it would appear that the PF / PIC executed at least steps 1 and 2 of the Emergency Descent procedure, which are:

1. ALT - (turn and pull)

2. HDG - (turn off airway and pull)

Whether steps 3 and 4 of the first loop were executed remains unclear...

3. Speed - (pull)

4. SPD BRK - (full)


ETA...what would be really telling to know is, if the PF executed completed loop 1 and started loop 2, whether SPD/MACH was selected, or MMO was set instead. The difference between these two settings indicates structural damage versus none suspected.

We need to keep in mind, these actions are part of certification, they are committed to memory, muscle memory. They have been executed thousands of times in the sims. Loop 1 and 2 are not arbitrary, they are automatic procedure.

Once again, it would appear there was a serious event on the right side of the aircraft. (galley in my opinion). The PNF was disabled (perhaps the aircraft as well). Generally speaking the left seat is always the PIC (PF) when crossing international borders, it's just how it is.

I think what we see is an "event" at the right side of the aircraft, near the flight deck. We see a very short amount of time to react, and subsequently a loss of control and ultimately (sadly) a loss of aircraft to crash.

The World (media) will try to make it seem otherwise, but the fragments of facts available so far (for anyone who's ever flown or piloted an aircraft) strongly suggest an explosive decompression on the flight deck.

In my mind, the only thing now, is to figure out why. (????)

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: carewemust

Because they have a lot of aircraft flying, and it was three minutes from the first warning to the aircraft being down.

OK Thanks.. I didn't know that. Three minutes is definitely not enough time for ground control to analyze the situation and radio up to the pilot. Probably wouldn't have prevented anything anyway. I still find it hard to believe that no communication was dispatched from the cockpit.

There should be a way for the cockpit crew to press a button to keep an open Microphone while dealing with catastrophic events, terrorists, etc.

a reply to: Zaphod58


CBS News was reporting all day on Saturday that the "Black Boxes" had been located and were being retrieved. They stood by that story even when recovery crews insisted that the data/voice recorders had NOT been located. This morning, CBSnews.com had sheepishly removed all references to flight 804 from its front page. Typical arrogant media.

a reply to: carewemust

Egypt is sending a submersible to listen for the pingers. I'm not sure if they have the ability to recover them though when they find them, or will have to rely on assistance from other nations for that.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Last I heard, there are several nations participating in the overall recovery operation. What are they doing?

a reply to: carewemust

The US sent a P-3 from Italy. The Donald Cook and a Sealift Command ship are in the Med, but as of yesterday hadn't been tasked to assist. The UK sent a C-130 and the RFA Lyme Bay ship. France sent investigative assistance. Greece is flying C-130s and an EMB-145 AEW aircraft. France, Russia, the US, and UK have all offered assistance with recovering the wreckage from the bottom, since Egypt has said they don't have the ability to recover it from that depth.

I will bet the P3's are laying search patterns to try and locate the pingers. This was not successful in the MH380 search but with the water depth they may have a better chance. Obstacles in the ocean terrain can be a problem with direction finders.

Have a look at this picture.



Large

This is quite telling and points to a fire in the passenger cabin.
Well, i base that on the notion that this piece of material is on the seats like in the picture below.



Or look at this picture

Clearly visible is the discoloration due to heat.
This will certainly be one of the many details that will surface in the coming weeks about wat happened on this flight.

For sure, these materials will not burn easily.

a reply to: earthling42

Material on an aircraft can burn quite well, as long as the flame is applied. The FAA requires that material be flame retardant, and extinguishes itself once the ignition source is removed.